The Turning point - Incompetent Coaching

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2016, 10:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: Where are you pulling that from , your ass? He avg 5.3 in that playoff game.....and over 5 YPC for his career against SD.  I'd say that's pretty damn close to torching a team.  A first down every two carries is....in fact....good.  Uless you're you or dumbass Marv apparently?

According to ProFootballReference.com Benny played 5 games against the Chargers and had 304 yards on 73 carries.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeBe00/splits/

Sorry  if my stats are wrong.  What is your source?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2016, 10:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: According to ProFootballReference.com Benny played 5 games against the Chargers and had 304 yards on 73 carries.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeBe00/splits/

Sorry  if my stats are wrong.  What is your source?

Hmm.....that is the site I used, but he only played mop up duty in game one with NE, with no attempts (so this is how you derived the 66 and 4.0 I presume, whereas I get 76 YPG by omitting one he had zero carries in, my apologies for the smartass remark), did not play the second game, his third game he only had 24 yards on 11 carries.  Then, the next season, he had 70 on 17 carries, then 118 on 25, 92 on 20, and two weeks later, 8 for 42 in the playoffs after being abandoned.  Despite his first game, which appears to be an anomaly, those are pretty good numbers.  Good enough to not be forgotten in a playoff game.  One of the things you have to do as a coach is know little nuances like this, and play the odds.  Take out the the zero carries game., add in the shitty game with his playoff game, you have:  346 yards on 81 carries for 4.3 YPC and close to 70 YPG.  If you go off of his most recent games against SD, it paints a bit of a different picture......322 on 70, 4.6 YPC and 92 YPG in 3.5 games.  Any team in the league would roll with those stats.....except Cinci apparently.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeBe00/gamelog/

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2016, 02:42 PM)Wyche Wrote:  Any team in the league would roll with those stats.....except Cinci apparently.

Dalton was hot in the first half (12 of 16 for 164 yds and a td).  Gio was running the ball just as good as Benny.  No team in the league would have ignored that and just fed the ball to Benny based on the results from just one game earlier in the season (or games from previous seasons).

And no matter how much you may deny it there was no talk on the boards about how the key to beating the Chargers was to feed Benny.  In fact most people wanted him benched in favor of Gio.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-29-2016, 11:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton was hot in the first half (12 of 16 for 164 yds and a td).  Gio was running the ball just as good as Benny.  No team in the league would have ignored that and just fed the ball to Benny based on the results from just one game earlier in the season (or games from previous seasons).

And no matter how much you may deny it there was no talk on the boards about how the key to beating the Chargers was to feed Benny.  In fact most people wanted him benched in favor of Gio.

Again, I'm not most people, and Gio's numbers where not as good as Benny's.  It wasn't just one game earlier in the season either, it was a recent trend over 3 or 4 games....like I showed you, but whatever.....

[fredtoast]

(12-29-2016, 12:04 PM)Wyche Wrote: Again, I'm not most people, and Gio's numbers where not as good as Benny's. 

First half Benny had 6 carries for 27 yards.  Gio had 7 for 26 but he had also added 20 yards on 2 receptions.  And that added receiving threat is why most fans wanted Gio in the lineup instead of benny.

(12-29-2016, 12:04 PM)Wyche Wrote:  It wasn't just one game earlier in the season either, it was a recent trend over 3 or 4 games....like I showed you, but whatever.....

And no coach in the NFL cares about what happened in a game 3 or 4 years ago against different players and coaches.

[Earendil]

(12-29-2016, 12:04 PM)Wyche Wrote: Again, I'm not most people, and Gio's numbers where not as good as Benny's.  It wasn't just one game earlier in the season either, it was a recent trend over 3 or 4 games....like I showed you, but whatever.....

(12-29-2016, 12:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First half Benny had 6 carries for 27 yards.  Gio had 7 for 26 but he had also added 20 yards on 2 receptions.  And that added receiving threat is why most fans wanted Gio in the lineup instead of benny.


And no coach in the NFL cares about what happened in a game 3 or 4 years ago against different players and coaches.

Regardless of who had the hot hand, I think we can all agree that the coaching staff failed to make second half adjustments and that cost them the game.

[fredtoast]

(12-29-2016, 12:59 PM)Earendil Wrote: Regardless of who had the hot hand, I think we can all agree that the coaching staff failed to make second half adjustments and that cost them the game.

Actually I think 4 big turnovers cost us that game.

Gio losses the ball inside the Chargers 10 yard line in first half.  Then  we turn the ball over 3 times in 12 plays in the 3rd quarter.

[Earendil]

(12-29-2016, 01:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I think 4 big turnovers cost us that game.

Gio losses the ball inside the Chargers 10 yard line in first half.  Then  we turn the ball over 3 times in 12 plays in the 3rd quarter.

I can't really argue that either.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-29-2016, 02:24 PM)Earendil Wrote: I can't really argue that either.

While true, if they had settled down into the methodical type game they won two weeks earlier at SD while they were still in the game after the 1st second half turnover, we may have seen a different outcome.  That was my point three years ago, and still is.....but some people like to skew perspectives to suit their insatiable desire to argue.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-29-2016, 12:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: First half Benny had 6 carries for 27 yards.  Gio had 7 for 26 but he had also added 20 yards on 2 receptions.  And that added receiving threat is why most fans wanted Gio in the lineup instead of benny.


And no coach in the NFL cares about what happened in a game 3 or 4 years ago against different players and coaches.

First point is fair.....but consecutive seasons over that short of a span probably didn't see that big of a turnover for SD.  For whatever reason, the Chargers always had a problem of shutting BJGE down.  That is something I would have considered from the sidelines instead of having a rattled Dalton chucking it what, 50 some odd times?

[fredtoast]

(12-29-2016, 02:30 PM)Wyche Wrote: While true, if they had settled down into the methodical type game they won two weeks earlier at SD while they were still in the game after the 1st second half turnover, we may have seen a different outcome.  That was my point three years ago, and still is.....but some people like to skew perspectives to suit their insatiable desire to argue.

Wow, talk about "skewing perspective".  Here is the reality of what happened in that regular season win against the Chargers.

Game was tied 7-7 in the third quarter before Bengals put up back-to-back scoring drives to take a 10 point lead.  In those two drives Gio carried the ball 4 times for 32 yards while Benny had 5 carries for ten yards.  And THIS is why you think the Bengals should have benched Gio in the second half of the playoff game in favor of Benny?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-29-2016, 03:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Game was tied 7-7 in the third quarter before Bengals put up back-to-back scoring drives to take a 10 point lead.  In those two drives Gio carried the ball 4 times for 32 yards while Benny had 5 carries for ten yards.  

What about the other 82 yards fred?  7-7 in the 3rd.....yeah, they were REALLY airing it out.....not a methodical type game at all. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

In fact, he sealed the victory in the 4th quarter with 27 yards on 6 carries for 4.5 YPC, and had a good first half, including that TD that you're referring to for the first half.  Dalton had 190 yards in the air.


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201312010sdg.htm#all_pbp


Yep.....kinda methodical.  

[fredtoast]

(12-29-2016, 04:34 PM)Wyche Wrote: In fact, he sealed the victory in the 4th quarter with 27 yards on 6 carries for 4.5 YPC, and had a good first half, including that TD that you're referring to for the first half.  Dalton had 190 yards in the air.


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201312010sdg.htm#all_pbp


Yep.....kinda methodical.  

The Bengals were running the ball in the playoff game just as often as they did on the regular season win until they turned the ball over 3 times in 12 plays and fell behind by 2 scores.

[Interceptor]

Yeah... He wasn't even good enough this season to put the team in a position to get that 8th one-and-done in a row...

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-29-2016, 05:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bengals were running the ball in the playoff game just as often as they did on the regular season win until they turned the ball over 3 times in 12 plays and fell behind by 2 scores.

After the first TO....they panicked.  Then came another TO.  Still....they were only down 10 if memory serves?  Still had time to keep plugging it.

[fredtoast]

(12-29-2016, 08:37 PM)Wyche Wrote: After the first TO....they panicked.  Then came another TO.  Still....they were only down 10 if memory serves?  Still had time to keep plugging it.

First possession after the first 3rd quarter turnover.  Run on first down for 2 yards

Possession after second turnover.  Run on three straight first downs for a total of 5 yards.

Possession after third turnover.  only 8 minutes left in 4th quarter.  Down by 2 scores.  Only gained 7 yards on 4 previous called runs (Dalton had a 2 yard scramble).  If the bengals had kept "plugging it" you would have been here squealing about how the definition of insanity is doing to same thing and expectiung different results.

[fredtoast]

(12-29-2016, 04:34 PM)Wyche Wrote: In fact, he sealed the victory in the 4th quarter with 27 yards on 6 carries for 4.5 YPC, and had a good first half, including that TD that you're referring to for the first half.  Dalton had 190 yards in the air.


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201312010sdg.htm#all_pbp


Yep.....kinda methodical.  

So in the regular season win they went to Gio when the game was in doubt and he delivered, but for some reason we should NOT have done thta in the playoff game?

if we had been up by two scores with just a few minutes left int he fourth quarter then I could see yoiu complaining about not giving the ball to Benny to run out the cloack, but that was not the situation at all.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

We weren't up by two scores when BJGE was gouging them at SD.  The point is....chucking the ball 50 times was not the winning formula when SD couldn't keep Green-Ellis from gaining a 1st down every two carries on average.  You keep Rivers off the field (and Woodhead ).....and you don't throw pics.  The one time playing not to lose may have actually worked....Marv panics.....go figure.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2017, 04:26 PM)Wyche Wrote: .chucking the ball 50 times was not the winning formula when SD couldn't keep Green-Ellis from gaining a 1st down every two carries on average. 

Now I see the problem.

In your simplistic mind we could have given the ball the Benny every play and would have scored a td on every single drive.

It doesn't work that way Wyche.