Derek Barnett

[*SHRacerX*]

Some folks are saying that taking him at #9 is risky because he is not really 6'3", but 6'2"... All I know is watching this guy play had me salivating at the options of him on the same line as Dunlap, Geno, and Billings/Hardison.

He also has the "winning attitude" I want on my team.

I remember thinking Brandon Graham or Elvis Dumerville would have been nice draft selections, but I was told they were too short. I think Barnett is exactly what this team needs. Thoughts?

[McC]

(01-01-2017, 11:01 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Some folks are saying that taking him at #9 is risky because he is not really 6'3", but 6'2"... All I know is watching this guy play had me salivating at the options of him on the same line as Dunlap, Geno, and Billings/Hardison.  

He also has the "winning attitude" I want on my team.  

I remember thinking Brandon Graham or Elvis Dumerville would have been nice draft selections, but I was told they were too short.  I think Barnett is exactly what this team needs.  Thoughts?

He sure looked good to me.  Has a bunch of moves and plays like his ass is on fire.

[TKUHL]

If Cincy likes him take him, simple as that. I never understood why someone is not worthy of a #9 pick but would be at pick 20 who cares if he's the guy he's the guy. Another shorter DE I would take is Walker from FSU=Beast

[NATI BENGALS]

Justin Houston is 6'2" almost 6'3"

Limiting our search to 6'5" or taller DEs has hurt us.

Barnett is a pass rusher. We need pass rushers. He is one of the guys i would definitely get excited about if we landed him.

[Jpoore]

He's gonna be a bust end of story much prefer walker and we can get him.in the third

[SunsetBengal]

The thing that jumps out at me most about Barnett, is that dude has a MOTOR. I love his speed burst, seems to bend well going around a Tackle. I could envision him causing some serious havoc, in the NFL. Imagine a DL package with Dunlap doing what he does, Geno and Billings getting penetration up the middle, and Barnett flashing around the Right side. What's wrong about that?

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-01-2017, 08:03 PM)Jpoore Wrote: He's gonna be a bust end of story much prefer walker and we can get him.in the third

Based on?

Walker won't last until the 3rd. And honestly Walker has a higher possibility to be a bust.

He has trouble disengaging from blocks and if a lineman can get a good grip onto him, he can't get off of blocks. He also has one speed and can overpursue. He needs to learn more moves and he's not that great at run blocking. He seems to be more of a pass rushing specialist. He struggles mightily against offensive lineman that are stronger than him. If he can't get past them or they get up on him, he's out of the play.

He has upside. Don't get me wrong. But he has to improve quite a bit for him to reach his potential. But he also has a good chance to be a bust.

[Whatever]

(01-01-2017, 07:54 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Justin Houston is 6'2" almost 6'3"

Limiting our search to 6'5" or taller DEs has hurt us.

Barnett is a pass rusher. We need pass rushers. He is one of the guys i would definitely get excited about if we landed him.

Houston is an OLB, however, and Barnett has shown no ability to play in space.

[Jpoore]

(01-02-2017, 02:17 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Based on?

Walker won't last until the 3rd. And honestly Walker has a higher possibility to be a bust.

He has trouble disengaging from blocks and if a lineman can get a good grip onto him, he can't get off of blocks. He also has one speed and can overpursue. He needs to learn more moves and he's not that great at run blocking. He seems to be more of a pass rushing specialist. He struggles mightily against offensive lineman that are stronger than him. If he can't get past them or they get up on him, he's out of the play.

He has upside. Don't get me wrong. But he has to improve quite a bit for him to reach his potential. But he also has a good chance to be a bust.

I would say Barnett is the more pass rushing specialist he doesn't even have 60 tackles on the season in a league where they run a ton and tenessee moved him all over the line to get put in good match-up all the time. He had multiple games with 2 or 3 tackles. He has the lower floor to me. IDK how this translates in real draft but every mock draft game website I've done walker has lasted till  late 3rd early 4th. There are pros and cons on both for sure but if we're picking in the top 10 for only the second time in a decade it needs to be a sure fire player and I don't see Barnett as that.

[Whatever]

(01-01-2017, 08:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The thing that jumps out at me most about Barnett, is that dude has a MOTOR.  I love his speed burst, seems to bend well going around a Tackle.  I could envision him causing some serious havoc, in the NFL.  Imagine a DL package with Dunlap doing what he does, Geno and Billings getting penetration up the middle, and Barnett flashing around the Right side.  What's wrong about that?

I watched his bama tape, and saw the exact opposite.  Barnett took a bunch of plays off.  He makes some good hustle plays, but stands around the LoS a lot, too.

Another alarm bell from his highlight reels is about 1/3 of the plays he makes in the backfield, he's left unblocked.  He can finish plays, but he's not a guy that's going line up against an NFL T all game and have a lot of success. The Vols game plan a lot to get him freed up.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-01-2017, 08:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The thing that jumps out at me most about Barnett, is that dude has a MOTOR.  I love his speed burst, seems to bend well going around a Tackle.  I could envision him causing some serious havoc, in the NFL.  Imagine a DL package with Dunlap doing what he does, Geno and Billings getting penetration up the middle, and Barnett flashing around the Right side.  What's wrong about that?

He's strong as hell, relentless, and plenty fast to line up at any position on the defensive line and make an impact.  You don't do what he did in college against top tier o-linemen without having a special skill set.  

The only other players that I would rank as high in his spot are Garrett from Texas A&M and Bama's Jonathon Allen.  Any one of those three would be an immediate impact on the Bengals defense and I would imagine one of them will be there at #9.

Should all three of them be gone, then one of the RBs, either Fournette or Cook, will be there and I might consider one of them to replace Hill.  

[Whatever]

(01-02-2017, 11:00 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He's strong as hell, relentless, and plenty fast to line up at any position on the defensive line and make an impact.  You don't do what he did in college against top tier o-linemen without having a special skill set.  

The only other players that I would rank as high in his spot are Garrett from Texas A&M and Bama's Jonathon Allen.  Any one of those three would be an immediate impact on the Bengals defense and I would imagine one of them will be there at #9.

Should all three of them be gone, then one of the RBs, either Fournette or Cook, will be there and I might consider one of them to replace Hill.  

His strength doesn't show up in the run game.  He gets no movement at all when man on man and can't disengage.  He doesn't show any kind of a bull rush, either.  He's a good tackler in pursuit, but I haven't seen him beat anybody with his strength.  

Watched his Florida film, and the first alarming thing was that Florida ran a screen right at him while he was doing his bread and butter outside rush for a TD.  After watching Alabama exploit this tendency, including running a reverse for a TD against him, it's pretty clear that Barnett doesn't have a good feel for backside containment.  In a standard 4-3 alignment, he did nothing.  When they went to a Wide 9 alignment in the second half to help keep the T from squaring up on him, he had a sack and a couple of pressures.

Bottom line with Barnett is that he only seems to be effective if he can keep from getting the OL squared up on him.  He shows no stack and shed ability.  He doesn't have a bull rush or inside counter move, and is almost totally dependent on his outside rush,meaning he will need inside pressure to be effective.  He basically reminds me of a DE version of Deltha O'NeaL.  He makes some flashy plays, but he gives up a lot, too.

[*psychdoctor*]

I prefer Allen from Alabama to Barnett.

I wouldn't mind Cam Robinson the tackle from Alabama given that Fisher is not look great and I also like the running back from Florida State Cook. Cook Burkhead and Giovanni in the backfield would be fairly strong.

But I wouldn't count out Mike Williams at number 9 he may be a little slow but he can catch everything in the Cincinnati Bengals tend to like tall wide receivers and tall defensive ends.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2017, 03:08 AM)Whatever Wrote: I watched his bama tape, and saw the exact opposite.  Barnett took a bunch of plays off. 

Another alarm bell from his highlight reels is about 1/3 of the plays he makes in the backfield, he's left unblocked. 

Neither one of these statements are true at all.

Barnett has a relentless motor and the first thing every opposing DC did was account for Derek Burnett.  To claim he was left unblocked is ridiculous.

[Whatever]

(01-02-2017, 04:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Neither one of these statements are true at all.

Barnett has a relentless motor and the first thing every opposing DC did was account for Derek Burnett.  To claim he was left unblocked is ridiculous.

Watch the tapes for yourself, then get back to me.  

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2017, 02:49 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I would say Barnett is the more pass rushing specialist he doesn't even have 60 tackles on the season 

 Barnett had 13 sacks and 56 tackles.  Of the 22 Div 1-A players who had at least 10 sacks only 6 had more tackles than Barnett.

There just are not any pass rush specialists with a lot of tackles.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2017, 05:03 PM)Whatever Wrote: Watch the tapes for yourself, then get back to me.  

I watched pretty much every game he payed this year.  Barnett was the best player by far on the Vols defense.  The opposing DC always keted on him and made sure he was blocked.

Post a link to him making a lot of plays when he was unblocked, because I did not see any.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2017, 01:12 PM)Whatever Wrote: His strength doesn't show up in the run game.  He gets no movement at all when man on man and can't disengage.

 He shows no stack and shed ability.  He doesn't have a bull rush or inside counter move, and is almost totally dependent on his outside rush,meaning he will need inside pressure to be effective.

Uh, no.

http://insidethepylon.com/pylon-u/teams-ncaa/division-ia-fbs/sec/tennessee-volunteers/2016/07/22/derek-barnett-interior-pass-rusher/

[Whatever]

(01-02-2017, 05:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I watched pretty much every game he payed this year.  Barnett was the best player by far on the Vols defense.  The opposing DC always keted on him and made sure he was blocked.

Post a link to him making a lot of plays when he was unblocked, because I did not see any.

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Xc_UnxvF47A

1:16, RT blocks down on DT, leaving Barnett unblocked

1:29, LT blocks down,leaving Barnett unblocked

1:40, RT blocks down, leaving Barnett unblocked

1:55, LT blocks down, TE releases into the pattern, Barnett unblocked.

2:23, line blocks down, Barnett unblocked

2:37 OL fails to pick up the stunt, Barnett unblocked

2:59 OL blocks down, TE releases, Barnett unblocked

3:08 OL blocks down, Barnett unblocked

Again, I give Barnett credit for being able to finish, but team's accounting for him on every play is simply untrue. I haven't watched all his game film, but I haven't seen any team make much effort to double team him with a TE or chip him with a back from the film I've watched.  

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2017, 05:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Xc_UnxvF47A

1:16, RT blocks down on DT, leaving Barnett unblocked

1:29, LT blocks down,leaving Barnett unblocked

1:40, RT blocks down, leaving Barnett unblocked

1:55, LT blocks down, TE releases into the pattern, Barnett unblocked.

2:23, line blocks down, Barnett unblocked

2:37 OL fails to pick up the stunt, Barnett unblocked

2:59 OL blocks down, TE releases, Barnett unblocked

3:08 OL blocks down, Barnett unblocked

Again, I give Barnett credit for being able to finish, but team's accounting for him on every play is simply untrue. I haven't watched all his game film, but I haven't seen any team make much effort to double team him with a TE or chip him with a back from the film I've watched.  

Link does not work.