Chinedum Ndukwe, Bernard Scott, Vinny Rey, and now...

[fredtoast]

2007...Biggest win of the season was when the 5-9 Bengasl upset the 9-5 browns 19-14 upset of the 9-5 Browns and knocked them out of the playoff race.  One of the big stars was rookie safety Chinedum Ndukwe.  He returned an interception 44 yards to the Brown 5 yard line with just a minute and a half left in the first quarter to set up the Bengals first td of the game.  Then on the Browns first drive of the second half he snuffed out a scoring threat with an interception inside the Bengals 10.  He lived off that one game for his entire Bengals career and was a fan favorite despite being one of the weakest stares on the defense.

2009...A fan favorite ever since draft day rookie Bernard Scott only had 29 carries through the first 9 weeks of the season.  But in week 10 Cedric Benson was out with an injury and Scott gained 119 rushing and 32 receiving.  He followed that up with an 87 yard rushing game the next week and for the next two years fans ranted at the team for not making him the full time starter.  But in 2011 when he had his career high in both carries and receptions fans finally realized he was not as good as they thought.  He averaged just 3.8 yards per carry and 2.9 per catch (not a typo).

2013...Vinnny Rey was making just his second start of the season in week 10 after taking over the injured (and much maligned) Rey Maualuga.  Rey had a game for the ages against AFCN rival Baltimore with 15 tackles, 3 sacks, and an interception.  He followed that up with a 12 tackle game the next week.  Again the fans ranted at the team for not making him a starter, but after seeing him play over half the snaps over the next three years many fans are claiming he is overpaid at just $3 million a year and needs to be released.

And now I give you............Rex Burkhead.  The greatest Bengal running back since Bernard Scott.

The Burkhead hype will be out of control.

[HarleyDog]

I love Rexasaurus Beasthead!

[SunsetBengal]

Man, how could you possibly omit the saga of Fightin' #40, Brian Leonard, from that epic saga?

[masonbengals fan]

It already is out of control

[jfkbengals]

(01-01-2017, 10:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Man, how could you possibly omit the saga of Fightin' #40, Brian Leonard, from that epic saga?

Didn't Gordon Lightfoot write a song about him?

[PDub80]

Looks like some of you boys are in the Jeremy Hill jersey club. Debbie downers!

[PDub80]

(01-01-2017, 10:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2007...Biggest win of the season was when the 5-9 Bengasl upset the 9-5 browns 19-14 upset of the 9-5 Browns and knocked them out of the playoff race.  One of the big stars was rookie safety Chinedum Ndukwe.  He returned an interception 44 yards to the Brown 5 yard line with just a minute and a half left in the first quarter to set up the Bengals first td of the game.  Then on the Browns first drive of the second half he snuffed out a scoring threat with an interception inside the Bengals 10.  He lived off that one game for his entire Bengals career and was a fan favorite despite being one of the weakest stares on the defense.

2009...A fan favorite ever since draft day rookie Bernard Scott only had 29 carries through the first 9 weeks of the season.  But in week 10 Cedric Benson was out with an injury and Scott gained 119 rushing and 32 receiving.  He followed that up with an 87 yard rushing game the next week and for the next two years fans ranted at the team for not making him the full time starter.  But in 2011 when he had his career high in both carries and receptions fans finally realized he was not as good as they thought.  He averaged just 3.8 yards per carry and 2.9 per catch (not a typo).

2013...Vinnny Rey was making just his second start of the season in week 10 after taking over the injured (and much maligned) Rey Maualuga.  Rey had a game for the ages against AFCN rival Baltimore with 15 tackles, 3 sacks, and an interception.  He followed that up with a 12 tackle game the next week.  Again the fans ranted at the team for not making him a starter, but after seeing him play over half the snaps over the next three years many fans are claiming he is overpaid at just $3 million a year and needs to be released.

And now I give you............Rex Burkhead.  The greatest Bengal running back since Bernard Scott.

The Burkhead hype will be out of control.

I don't get why people don't get excited when any Bengal player does well.

If the Bengals are going to get more production out of the running game it's either going to come from Hill, Bernard, Burkhead, or Peerman. As long as the production is there, who cares what the name is on the back of the shirt? Why thumbs down any of it? I get taking the wait and see approach, but if this is Burkhead's coming out party then so be it. We won't know for another 8 months one way or the other. One thing's for sure, though... Hill has underwhelmed the past two seasons after looking like a world beater the last 9 games of his rookie year. Why not be excited about a strong running performance from a Bengal? Hill's been strong for 1 half of a season out of 3 years and fumbled away a locked up playoff game on a simple play. That's a flash in the pan, too, IMO. Why the love?

[Essex Johnson]

(01-01-2017, 10:54 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I don't get why people don't get excited when any Bengal player does well.

If the Bengals are going to get more production out of the running game it's either going to come from Hill, Bernard, Burkhead, or Peerman. As long as the production is there, who cares what the name is on the back of the shirt? Why thumbs down any of it? I get taking the wait and see approach, but if this is Burkhead's coming out party then so be it. We won't know for another 8 months one way or the other. One thing's for sure, though... Hill has underwhelmed the past two seasons after looking like a world beater the last 9 games of his rookie year. Why not be excited about a strong running performance from a Bengal? Hill's been strong for 1 half of a season out of 3 years and fumbled away a locked up playoff game on a simple play. That's a flash in the pan, too, IMO. Why the love?

Im excited about Burkhead's performance but im a realist also.. it will be hard for us to keep Burkhead if the FA $$$ gets too high with Hill and Gio under contract, no way am i cutting Hill or Gio.. both are still solid RBs and just not enough tape ( espeically ball security and health) on Burkhead for me to commit to him and letting Hill go.. As for the fumble that happens... on reverse side I believe he did not fumble all season this year.. very impressive.

[Shake n Blake]

What about the saga of Jerome Simpson and Andre Caldwell at the end of 2010?

They had a couple decent games and it was like Beatles mania all offseason.

[R3stangs]

(01-01-2017, 10:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2007...Biggest win of the season was when the 5-9 Bengasl upset the 9-5 browns 19-14 upset of the 9-5 Browns and knocked them out of the playoff race.  One of the big stars was rookie safety Chinedum Ndukwe.  He returned an interception 44 yards to the Brown 5 yard line with just a minute and a half left in the first quarter to set up the Bengals first td of the game.  Then on the Browns first drive of the second half he snuffed out a scoring threat with an interception inside the Bengals 10.  He lived off that one game for his entire Bengals career and was a fan favorite despite being one of the weakest stares on the defense.

2009...A fan favorite ever since draft day rookie Bernard Scott only had 29 carries through the first 9 weeks of the season.  But in week 10 Cedric Benson was out with an injury and Scott gained 119 rushing and 32 receiving.  He followed that up with an 87 yard rushing game the next week and for the next two years fans ranted at the team for not making him the full time starter.  But in 2011 when he had his career high in both carries and receptions fans finally realized he was not as good as they thought.  He averaged just 3.8 yards per carry and 2.9 per catch (not a typo).

2013...Vinnny Rey was making just his second start of the season in week 10 after taking over the injured (and much maligned) Rey Maualuga.  Rey had a game for the ages against AFCN rival Baltimore with 15 tackles, 3 sacks, and an interception.  He followed that up with a 12 tackle game the next week.  Again the fans ranted at the team for not making him a starter, but after seeing him play over half the snaps over the next three years many fans are claiming he is overpaid at just $3 million a year and needs to be released.

And now I give you............Rex Burkhead.  The greatest Bengal running back since Bernard Scott.

The Burkhead hype will be out of control.

Nice. A guy has a career game and this is all you can come up with. 

Guy plays his tail off every time he gets a chance and has looked good almost every time. But apparently doesn't pass your opinion test. 

[bengalsturntup926]

I liked the history lesson ty for that. Kind of feel bad now we knocked the browns out of contention lol. But on another note, Fred toast made a negative post about something? This can't be, are we in the twilight zone?

[*Nately120*]

Burkhead is the 3rd RB we've been crying for them to make the bell cow this season. Don't get me wrong, the guy looks good but we have been going down the line and declaring the guy who isn't the #1 to be the obvious choice. Are we right this time? Is it a long term thing?

[BURROWorBUST]

Hats off to Rex for a great game and a great year. He's the co-starter with Hill until Gio proves that he's healthy and ready to play. Rex is nothing more and nothing less than that. That said, I can't see us using a top pick in the draft on a RB, not with as many holes as we have at key positions.

[reuben.ahmed]

(01-01-2017, 10:20 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: It already is out of control

It's not about Rex, it's about how much Hill sucks! I'm not trying to be condescending here, do you watch the same games must of us do? It seems like you're listening in on the radio or just looking at the final score.

And really, Fred's post is not more about skill it's about drive. If your workplace paid you 10 million a year and didn't ask you to note any improving in your skillset, and also allowed you to degrade your skillset as your pay increases (typically backloaded contracts), how would you react?

Personally I don't let my salary dictate how I perform at work, high or low. But some of these guys, once they get their contract, because it's not fully performance driven or they're happy with their base, they're not going to care. Every player on that team knows how much every other player makes, it's public information. Maybe it's a crime, but perhaps then much of it should be performance driven. The problem with that is since it's a team game, you rely on your team (e.g. J. Hill can't make his 2 million bonus because the offensive line "sucks"). Many people are motivated by money.

Also's Fred's post is a little careless, it's not an apples to apples comparison. These are totally different people, they are not "resources" or "players". We can't judge Rex's performance because of B. Scott's performance. What we can do is see that Jeremy HIll is no good under the same offensive line that Rex is.

It's not about Rex, it's about Jeremy Hill. He improved his fumble performance this year, good. Now, he needs to improve his YPC performance. How many more tries you wanna give him? He lost us a playoff game by doing the #1 thing RBs are not supposed to do. Just like M. Nugent is gone for losing us several regular season games. 

The key phrase for the Bengals is they are too slow to react to situations, be it on the field or off.

Let's put all the blame on the O-line. Here are Jeremy's games this year where he didn't have a 20+ yard run to blow up his average:
9 rushes, 31 yards, 3.4 YPC
11 rushes, 22 yards, 2 YPC
21 rushes, 71 yards, 3.4 YPC
4 rushes, 12 yards, 3 YPC
13 rushes, 38 yards, 2.9 YPC
20 rushes, 76 yards, 3.8 YPC
15 rushes, 46 yards, 3.1 YPC
16 rushes, 62 yards, 3.9 YPC
12 rushes, 21 yards, 1.8 YPC
23 rushes, 33 yards, 1.4 YPC
25 rushes, 111 yards, 4.4 YPC
20 rushes, 43 yards, 2.2 YPC
7 rushes, 8 yards, 1.1 YPC

He is 32nd in the league in YPC. 

Yes our offensive line was pretty bad with Ced in there so we can definitely put some blame there.

Regardless of the situation, there are 27 RBs in the league that have a 4 YPC or higher (minimum 100 attempts). Given the situation, Hill is performing well below average and it has to be fixed from a team perspective. 

[Hoofhearted]

(01-02-2017, 09:22 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: It's not about Rex, it's about how much Hill sucks! I'm not trying to be condescending here, do you watch the same games must of us do? It seems like you're listening in on the radio or just looking at the final score.

And really, Fred's post is not more about skill it's about drive. If your workplace paid you 10 million a year and didn't ask you to note any improving in your skillset, and also allowed you to degrade your skillset as your pay increases (typically backloaded contracts), how would you react?

Personally I don't let my salary dictate how I perform at work, high or low. But some of these guys, once they get their contract, because it's not fully performance driven or they're happy with their base, they're not going to care. Every player on that team knows how much every other player makes, it's public information. Maybe it's a crime, but perhaps then much of it should be performance driven. The problem with that is since it's a team game, you rely on your team (e.g. J. Hill can't make his 2 million bonus because the offensive line "sucks").

Also's Fred's post is a little careless, it's not an apples to apples comparison. These are totally different people, they are not "resources" or "players". We can't judge Rex's performance because of B. Scott's performance. What we can do is see that Jeremy HIll is no good under the same offensive line that Rex is.

It's not about Rex, it's about Jeremy Hill. He improved his fumble performance this year, good. Now, he needs to improve his YPC performance. How many more tries you wanna give him? He lost us a playoff game by doing the #1 thing RBs are not supposed to do. Just like M. Nugent is gone for losing us several regular season games.

It's really not even about Rex. It's seeing a third string RB have a great game and question if he's valuable to the team going forward. I am not sure what the problem with that is on a Bengals message board, but whatever. Do people get carried away with it? Probably. But he's a Bengal, had a great game, so people are propping him up. But lets go ahead and rain on that parade. 

[reuben.ahmed]

So it's not just "one" great game, we shouldn't distill it to that.

Here are Rex's #s in the same situation, this year:

2 rushes, 16 yards, 8 YPC
4 rushes, 23 yards, 5.8 YPC
5 rushes, 29 yards, 5.8 YPC
8 rushes, 38 yards, 4.8 YPC
9 rushes, 45 yards, 5.0 YPC
7 rushes, 32 yards, 4.6 YPC
12 rushes, 42 yards, 3.5 YPC
27 rushes, 119 yards,  4.4 YPC

Except for the last, these are the same games Jeremy ran in. Something is wrong with Jeremy Hill. Rex doesn't have enough carries to show up in stat rankings, but with an average of 4.6 with limited carries, he's tied for 11th in the league. 10th is at 4.8 YPC. Imaging having a 5 YPC RB? Hill showed promise but our offensive line doesn't work for him anymore. Maybe Rex can't handle the amount of carries Hill gets, who knows. Maybe Hill would put up those YPC numbers if he only rushed that few times...

LeVeon Bell is 4.8 YPC and Ezekiel is at 5.1. McCoy is at 5.4 YPC. 

The problem Fred and others have is some of us (myself included) say Rex should replace Hill, not necessarily that "Rex had a good game". He's had several good games (more than a handful) where Hill performed poorly. The best teams fix problems before they actually become a problem.

[THE Bigzoman]

(01-02-2017, 12:03 AM)R3stangs Wrote: Nice. A guy has a career game and this is all you can come up with. 

Guy plays his tail off every time he gets a chance and has looked good almost every time. But apparently doesn't pass your opinion test. 

Fred has always been anti-Burkhead.

[Pat5775]

(01-02-2017, 09:42 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: So it's not just "one" great game, we shouldn't distill it to that.

Here are Rex's #s in the same situation, this year:

2 rushes, 16 yards, 8 YPC
4 rushes, 23 yards, 5.8 YPC
5 rushes, 29 yards, 5.8 YPC
8 rushes, 38 yards, 4.8 YPC
9 rushes, 45 yards, 5.0 YPC
7 rushes, 32 yards, 4.6 YPC
12 rushes, 42 yards, 3.5 YPC
27 rushes, 119 yards,  4.4 YPC

Except for the last, these are the same games Jeremy ran in. Something is wrong with Jeremy Hill. Rex doesn't have enough carries to show up in stat rankings, but with an average of 4.6 with limited carries, he's tied for 11th in the league. 10th is at 4.8 YPC. Imaging having a 5 YPC RB? Hill showed promise but our offensive line doesn't work for him anymore. Maybe Rex can't handle the amount of carries Hill gets, who knows. Maybe Hill would put up those YPC numbers if he only rushed that few times...

LeVeon Bell is 4.8 YPC and Ezekiel is at 5.1. McCoy is at 5.4 YPC. 

The problem Fred and others have is some of us (myself included) say Rex should replace Hill, not necessarily that "Rex had a good game". He's had several good games (more than a handful) where Hill performed poorly. The best teams fix problems before they actually become a problem.

Excellent post. Burkhead hasn't been a mere flash in the pan. When he gets his touches, he runs with vision, agility, speed and most importantly: heart. Hill hasn't shown any of those qualities since his rookie season. I don't know if he's lazy, injured, or has just plain lost it mentally... But Hill has become more of a liability than an asset (although granted, he's done a great job cutting down on fumbles). 

Burkhead has looked like the better RB every time he got touches these past several games. Will he play like this forever? Obviously not. He very well could be our version of Peyton Hillis. But based on these past few games? If one of them has to walk I'm absolutely keeping Burkhead over Hill.  

[*SHRacerX*]

How dare you forget the immortal Luchey performance against the Saints....also in the final week of the season!

[Daddy-O]

(01-02-2017, 09:42 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: So it's not just "one" great game, we shouldn't distill it to that.

Here are Rex's #s in the same situation, this year:

2 rushes, 16 yards, 8 YPC
4 rushes, 23 yards, 5.8 YPC
5 rushes, 29 yards, 5.8 YPC
8 rushes, 38 yards, 4.8 YPC
9 rushes, 45 yards, 5.0 YPC
7 rushes, 32 yards, 4.6 YPC
12 rushes, 42 yards, 3.5 YPC
27 rushes, 119 yards,  4.4 YPC

Except for the last, these are the same games Jeremy ran in. Something is wrong with Jeremy Hill. Rex doesn't have enough carries to show up in stat rankings, but with an average of 4.6 with limited carries, he's tied for 11th in the league. 10th is at 4.8 YPC. Imaging having a 5 YPC RB? Hill showed promise but our offensive line doesn't work for him anymore. Maybe Rex can't handle the amount of carries Hill gets, who knows. Maybe Hill would put up those YPC numbers if he only rushed that few times...

LeVeon Bell is 4.8 YPC and Ezekiel is at 5.1. McCoy is at 5.4 YPC. 

The problem Fred and others have is some of us (myself included) say Rex should replace Hill, not necessarily that "Rex had a good game". He's had several good games (more than a handful) where Hill performed poorly. The best teams fix problems before they actually become a problem.

So true Reuben.  The eye test not the stats don't lie.  Hill had a great rookie season but he is not that player anymore.  Don't care what anyone says, he has lost his explosion and quickness through the line.  He runs like he thinks he's Leveon Bell, but he's not!  There's a reason Rex's YPC are far better:  He gets to the 2nd level more often.  The minute he gets the ball he explodes through the hole.  When it's not there he makes a quick move and finds the best opportunity to make some yardage.  Rarely does he lose yardage. 

Jeremy Hill to me looks done.  Sadly, we'll probably lose Rex to free agency because other organizations will see the same thing.