Mixed Results for New OC

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2017, 07:53 PM)Joelist Wrote: The post saying they took away calling the plays at the line and such is upthread. It says Tony Pike made the statement on a sports show.

Ah, I see now.


But it did not say he could not audible.  It said they did not let him run the no-huddle as much.

[*jason*]

They looked pretty good this year to me. I especially liked the way they had no identity on offense.

[Joelist]

It also says not letting him call plays at the line. Audibles come under play calling at the line.

[Derrick]

(01-02-2017, 04:29 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I like some of the things the new offensive coordinator Zampese did for the Bengals but my main concern is his lack of adjustment after the first half. Is anybody else concerned?

The lack of halftime adjustments has been a staple of Marvin Lewis' tenure. I have complained every year and it never gets any better.
 I agree the OC used players/formations that were very predictable. Couldn't figure out how to use multiple TEs even in red zone for crap's sake. Couldn't devise plays that used misdirection. The O-line was worse than terrible and that is Marvin's and PA's fault!!!
IN THE END NOTHING WILL CHANGE. BROWNVILLE AS USUAL.

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2017, 09:51 PM)Derrick Wrote: The lack of halftime adjustments has been a staple of Marvin Lewis' tenure. I have complained every year and it never gets any better.

Actually it is just another one of those message board myths with no facts behind it.

Here are the Bengals rank in 3rd quarter scoring for the last few years.

'15...10th
'14...11th
'13... 7th
'12...23rd
'11...11th


I don't know what was happening in '12, but over the other 4 seasons we average 10th.

[Derrick]

(01-02-2017, 11:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually it is just another one of those message board myths with no facts behind it.

Here are the Bengals rank in 3rd quarter scoring for the last few years.

'15...10th
'14...11th
'13... 7th
'12...23rd
'11...11th


I don't know what was happening in '12, but over the other 4 seasons we average 10th.

Fred, you're talking out of your porthole again! The Bengals scoring has little to do with their OBVIOUS lack of half-time adjustments. Look at the opponent's second half scoring and COMPARE the two.  Then we can talk.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-02-2017, 08:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I agree there were issues with the offensive line.

I think Zampese was creaive with the overall game plan.  My main concern and this includes with Marvin, is the coaches inability to make adjustments after halftime. 

According to Marvin on the Bengals home page half time adjustments are a fake news story made up by the media. 

Any head coach with 15 years at the helm and ZERO playoff wins would agree.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2017, 12:52 AM)Derrick Wrote: Fred, you're talking out of your porthole again! The Bengals scoring has little to do with their OBVIOUS lack of half-time adjustments. Look at the opponent's second half scoring and COMPARE the two.  Then we can talk.

This thread is about Zampese.

What does he have to do with the defense?

But here you go.

'11.... 5th
'12....13th
'13.... 6th
'14....27th
'15....13th.

Again, one really bad year, but in the other 4 years we average 9th.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-03-2017, 01:05 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: According to Marvin on the Bengals home page half time adjustments are a fake news story made up by the media. 

Any head coach with 15 years at the helm and ZERO playoff wins would agree.

"the adjustment that’s more journalism jargon than truth"
The quote to go along with my claim.

[bengalsturntup926]

I think he got away from Dalton's strengths, running the west coast system and quick passing. He dropped Andy back in passing too much. And Dalton just isn't a pocket passer like that. Mccaron actually would probably do better in that role. Also we've heard he telegraphs the run, teams said they knew what was coming. And that's a great point they got away from no huddle and letting Dalton call plays out of it.

[Brownshoe]

(01-02-2017, 05:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2014 under Hue Jackson the Bengals ranked 15th in points and 15th in yards.

I believe we were in the top 5 in points scored until Dalton went down. I think we were close to that in yards too.

[phil413]

(01-02-2017, 06:11 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote:

Realistically though, I hope that when the temptation of "continuity" makes Zampese look like the only option that they remember they once got a guy from the arena league and he worked out.  Maybe they land a descent college OC that moves on from his HC getting canned or something.   

[Brownshoe]

I hope we get a new OC next season. I know that we won't though. Last I checked we were 32nd in points scored in the 4th quarter. Meaning teams figured out what Zampese was doing and he didn't want to change his game plan at all. I thought he didn't use Eifert very well, and he didn't allow Dalton to do the no huddle very much. I didn't like his play calling at all. I just hope that he improves next year when he's still the OC. I just don't think it will happen.

[masonbengals fan]

(01-03-2017, 01:44 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I think he got away from Dalton's strengths, running the west coast system and quick passing. He dropped Andy back in passing too much.  And Dalton just isn't a pocket passer like that. Mccaron actually would probably do better in that role. Also we've heard he telegraphs the run, teams said they knew what was coming. And that's a great point they got away from no huddle and letting Dalton call plays out of it.

Being the Bengals quarterback's coach for years, you would think he would know Dalton's strengths.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-02-2017, 07:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you form your opinions without any facts on which to base them?

That certainly explains most of your posts in the P&R forum.

I think that "opinion" is pretty obvious to anyone that is watching.  He plays not to lose, like Marv.  Ultra-conservative.  How many deep shots did the Bengals take this year?  Makes it easy when you only have to defend the first 15 yards.  

Not that it matters, but what the hell is the P&R forum?  

[masonbengals fan]

Pick -n- Roll

[CJD]

You all said it.

He didn't make any adjustments in the 2nd half all year. Or his adjustments were far inferior to the other team's defense's adjustments after seeing a half of what he was calling.

He was never really able to dial up a spark play to close out a game or come back in a clutch moment.

It felt like they never used Eifert very well, even when he was healthy.

He ran that stupid as **** 3 people to the left, 3 people to the right and 3 people defending Andy crap WAY too much. And, as soon as he called it, Andy would check out of it almost every time. You know why? Because that's a janky "catch your opponent off guard" type of play call. It should not be on the first or second page of your playbook!

He took out a lot of plays that worked very well in 2015. Where was the Andy Dalton read option? Where was the hurry up? Where was anything that made our offense good last year? You can't pin everything on Hue, Marvin Jones and Sanu leaving...

I want him to be removed and install a new OC, but we already know that won't happen, so what's the point of discussing it.

Here's hoping year #2 will be a better one where he actually learns how to adjust his play calling in order to win a game.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2017, 04:54 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I believe we were in the top 5 in points scored until Dalton went down. I think we were close to that in yards too.

Dalton did not miss a game in '14.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2017, 10:08 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: He didn't make any adjustments in the 2nd half all year. Or his adjustments were far inferior to the other team's defense's adjustments after seeing a half of what he was calling. 

Bengals finished in the top half of the league (15th) in points scored in the third quarter.

Needs improvement, but not nearly as bad as you claim.

And I actually agree with Marvin.  Halftime adjustments are usually more about execution than scheme.  I have been in the locker room at halftime with some pretty good coaches.  They were almost always concentration of failures in execution than scheme.  It was very rare that we would change anything schematic at halftime.

[CJD]

(01-03-2017, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals finished in the top half of the league (15th) in points scored in the third quarter.

Needs improvement, but not nearly as bad as you claim.

And I actually agree with Marvin.  Halftime adjustments are usually more about execution than scheme.  I have been in the locker room at halftime with some pretty good coaches.  They were almost always concentration of failures in execution than scheme.  It was very rare that we would change anything schematic at halftime.

And they ranked 3rd in the NFL in points scored in the first quarter.

Here's the problem.

In the 4th quarter, Cincinnati is ranked 31st.

And in the 2nd quarter, Cincinnati is ranked 27th.

If you look at the numbers, the average among the 32 teams of points scored for the four quarters are 4.6, 7.0, 4.5 and 6.6 points, respectively.

The Bengals scored 6.1, 5.9, 4.3 and 4.1 points in the respective four quarters.

So...the difference between the Bengals and the average for the four quarters is +1.5, -1.1, -0.2 and -2.5. For a total net of +0.4 in the first half, and a -2.7 in the second half.

The 2nd and 4th quarters are obviously the more high scoring quarters. And this makes sense. Often times, a good drive in the middle or end of the first quarter results in points scored in the second quarter. Same with the 3rd and the 4th quarter.

So points scored in the 1st and 3rd quarter are typically in the early drives of the quarter, whereas a good portion of the points scored as a result of successful offense in those quarters are part of the 2nd and 4th quarter statistics.

So yes...from a pure statistical stand point, they weren't awful in the 3rd quarter. But that's ignoring the fact that 3rd quarter successes are often reflected in 4th quarter stats. And the 4th quarter just so happens to be the quarter that the Bengals struggle in the most...by a wide margin.

Are we parsing statistics or are we talking about what we see on the field? Because the results on the field tell every Bengals fan that the 2nd half is, by far, the weakest part of their game. And that can be directly attributed to the coaches not adjusting to what the other team is doing.

In a wonderful coincidence (or is it?), the Bengals' best quarter is the first quarter, in which they are actually quite formidable. Maybe that's because they have a strong game plan that is actually based on watching tape of their opponents? Could be. That's commendable. But as the game goes on, the numbers seem to indicate that they stick to that original game plan regardless of the adjustments and changes that occur throughout the course of the game.

Which, I believe, is what I was arguing in my original post.

So I appreciate your efforts in helping me to prove my point.