Mccarron

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2017, 09:51 AM)PacMan Fever Wrote: Why do we need a backup qb when we're obviously not going to be contenders next year? 

We are going to be contenders this year.

[McC]

(01-03-2017, 09:51 AM)PacMan Fever Wrote: Why do we need a backup qb when we're obviously not going to be contenders next year?  Grab any pick for him and all currently signed players. Let's make 2020 our year (minus Marv)

Why won't we be contenders next year?

[fredtoast]

This is probably the first of dozens of threads about what we will do with McCarron.

I believe we will trade him. He has one year left on his contract and will not come back here as a backup.

And I think we got extremely lucky with the timing of this because this is the worst draft for college QBs that I have seen in many many years. Some people are claiming that there will not be a single QB with a first round rating.

If Garoppolo is put on the trade market it could affect McCarron's value, but based on history of trades for back ups (Schaub, Kolb,Feeley) we should get at least a second for Mccarron. And the second round pick from a team needing a QB (Jets, Niners, Browns) would be in the top 40. That is almost like getting a first round pick.

[Au165]

(01-03-2017, 11:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is probably the first of dozens of threads about what we will do with McCarron.

I believe we will trade him.  He has one year left on his contract and will not come back here as a backup.

And I think we got extremely lucky with the timing of this because this is the worst draft for college QBs that I have seen in many many years.  Some people are claiming that there will not be a single QB with a first round rating.

If Garoppolo is put on the trade market it could affect McCarron's value, but based on history of trades for back ups (Schaub, Kolb,Feeley) we should get at least a second for Mccarron.  And the second round pick from a team needing a QB (Jets, Niners, Browns) would be in the top 40.  That is almost like getting a first round pick.

They will manufacture QB's to have a 1st round grade like they did with EJ Manuel. Deshaun already has a high 1st round grade from most services and Mitch Trabisky appears to be this years pre draft riser. I agree though the market is in need of talent, but as I said one year of control doesn't help the value.

[Devils Advocate]

There's no way you don't get a 1st round pick for AJ. His time as a starter, however limited is was, is more valuable than any unknown commodity coming out of college. The only way you don't get a first is if you get a top 2 or 3 second.

The wild card here is Garrapolo, at least where the Browns are concerned. I happen to think that acquiring Collins was a 'wink wink' move between the two teams for a future trade involving Garrapolo. But, Hugh has a good history with AJ and all of the Bengals staff. To me, Cleveland is the only logical spot if I'm Hugh or AJ and Cleveland has all the draft picks to choose from.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2017, 11:59 AM)Au165 Wrote: They will manufacture QB's to have a 1st round grade like they did with EJ Manuel.

Agree.  Desperation and the value of the QB position will push at least one into the first round.

But the lack of talent in this years draft will still help us if we trade McCarron.   Even if a QB gets a first round grade it will not be a top 7 grade where all the teams that need a QB are picking.  So if these teams are looking at a high second round pick or trading up into the middle/back of the first round then they will be much more likely to give up that high second round pick for Mccarron than a college player who is not ranked as a top prospect.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2017, 12:16 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: There's no way you don't get a 1st round pick for AJ.

When was the last time a team gave up a first round pick for a back up QB?

None of the examples I can remember (Schaub, Kolb, Feeley) involved giving up a first round pick.

Is there one I have forgotten about?

[Au165]

(01-03-2017, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When was the last time a team gave up a first round pick for a back up QB?

None of the examples I can remember (Schaub, Kolb, Feeley) involved giving up a first round pick.

Is there one I have forgotten about?

Sam Bradford out of desperation, but not a true fair example because he was kind of a starter (but had starting experience) and the team was desperate. You could argue Matt Cassel (34th pick), but he did have a full year of production to show.

I think a second is the high side with a 3rd and a future conditional pick based on performance to be a reasonable expectation.

[guyofthetiger]

Someone told me Cleveland gets the first and tenth pick in the first round of the draft. I would trade Macaroni for the tenth pick in a second. We could get a decent player and Cleveland gets a decent QB.

[Devils Advocate]

(01-03-2017, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When was the last time a team gave up a first round pick for a back up QB?

None of the examples I can remember (Schaub, Kolb, Feeley) involved giving up a first round pick.

Is there one I have forgotten about?

I don't know if there's an example.

But I do know that there aren't enough QB's to go around.

And AJ has something most of any other back ups in this position don't--
post season game time experience.

There's a lot at play here. The Bengals have kinda put themselves in a hard spot because either way AJ is gone next year. That will be used as leverage against them. Still, they do have some wiggle room against a team like Cleveland. Cleveland needs AJ or Garropolo. I guess there are other QB's that may hit the market (Cousins?), but with what Cleveland is trying to do in rebuilding, I don't see how they don't go after either of these two back ups. They will leverage what they can against either team and we all know Belechick is as savvy as they come and he will definitely consider a second for JG. It's gonna be interesting. But I'm guessing Hugh prefers AJ.

[Au165]

(01-03-2017, 12:29 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Someone told me Cleveland gets the first and tenth pick in the first round of the draft. I would trade Macaroni for the tenth pick in a second. We could get a decent player and Cleveland gets a decent QB.

Your not getting a top 10 pick for AJ McCaron haha, come on now.

To those asking why wouldn't they want AJ over a rookie, the idea is based on potential and the unknown. You have seen AJ McCaron, so you know what he is. Will he be great? Short sample size says probably not, but can he be good? Sure. With a rookie get the exciting unknown that owners love and that is that they may be drafting the next hall of fame QB. The unknown strangely enough tends to be a highly valued commodity in the NFL. That is why you don't see a lot of trades for veterans, many prefer the exciting idea of what that 4th round pick may get them over the known production that vet may give them.

[Au165]

(01-03-2017, 12:32 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: There's a lot at play here. The Bengals have kinda put themselves in a hard spot because either way AJ is gone next year. That will be used as leverage against them. Still, they do have some wiggle room against a team like Cleveland. Cleveland needs AJ or Garropolo. I guess there are other QB's that may hit the market (Cousins?), but with what Cleveland is trying to do in rebuilding, I don't see how they don't go after either of these two back ups. They will leverage what they can against either team and we all know Belechick is as savvy as they come and he will definitely consider a second for JG. It's gonna be interesting. But I'm guessing Hugh prefers AJ.

Cleveland is not trying to win now, otherwise they wouldn't have let every half way decent FA leave. Their roster is in shambles and no QB is fixing that. I think they stick with Kessler another year and try and build the roster around him. They then will evaluate where they are at and what Kessler brings and make a call in the next draft. AJ McCaron will be 27 when next season opens, you aren't trading for a 27 year old unproven guy to sit a couple years while you build a roster.

[*Nately120*]

(01-03-2017, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When was the last time a team gave up a first round pick for a back up QB?

None of the examples I can remember (Schaub, Kolb, Feeley) involved giving up a first round pick.

Is there one I have forgotten about?

Good point, this.  I have a feeling this sort of deal doesn't get done because Mike Brown, like a message board fan, won't give up McCarron for much less than the Raiders or Vikings did in very specific situations for starting QBs with long resumes.  We're being a bit unrealistic here.

[Devils Advocate]

(01-03-2017, 12:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: Cleveland is not trying to win now, otherwise they wouldn't have let every half way decent FA leave. Their roster is in shambles and no QB is fixing that. I think they stick with Kessler another year and try and build the roster around him. They then will evaluate where they are at and what Kessler brings and make a call in the next draft. AJ McCaron will be 27 when next season opens, you aren't trading for a 27 year old unproven guy to sit a couple years while you build a roster.

Yeah I realize Cleveland isn't trying to win now. I know Hugh has at least 3 years if not more, guaranteed. But they aren't gonna waste that time either.

I didn't realize AJ was that old but I don't know how much that will factor into any consideration for him, not saying it won't.

If they want AJ (I suspect they do), he isn't gonna sit.

At any rate, there are several scenarios to get one of clevelands top picks.

AJ straight up for a first and 4th or whatever isn't the only way to go. We could send picks their way too or even a player.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Putting AJ McCarron on the trading block would be an incredibly stupid move on the Bengals' part. Until the offensive line is fixed, Andy Dalton is just one cheap shot away from being laid out for an entire season. I want AJ McCarron on the scene in case -- God forbid -- that would happen.

[milksheikh]

Bengals declined a 2nd and a 4th for McCarron.

Would they decline it now?

[CKwi88]

Wow, unless that 2nd rounder was in the bottom third, I would have taken it before they even mentioned the 4th.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2017, 01:08 PM)milksheikh Wrote: Bengals declined a 2nd and a 4th for McCarron.

Would they decline it now?

Who made this ioffer and when?

I doubt they turn it down now.

[milksheikh]

(01-03-2017, 01:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who made this ioffer and when?

I doubt they turn it down now.

According to Dave Lapham, a team (Uknown) offered a 2nd and 4th to the Bengals but the Bengals countered with a 1st a 4th.

Most likely before 2016-17 season it occurred.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-03-2017, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When was the last time a team gave up a first round pick for a back up QB?

None of the examples I can remember (Schaub, Kolb, Feeley) involved giving up a first round pick.

Is there one I have forgotten about?

I agree Fred. We're not getting a 1st Round pick for McCarron. Maybe if he had 2-3 years on his rookie deal...but no team will give up a 1st Round pick for a guy in the last year of his contract.

I think he goes to Houston. Osweiler has essentially 1 huge year on his contract. Bring McCarron in for 1 year to play on a rookie deal, then waive Osweiler and sign McCarron.