Position Review - CB

[bengal kitten uk]

Corner (along with OL) is a hot topic position for the Bengals this offseason. On the face of it, we have a lot of talent on the team, but - for one reason or another - are we going to see another high drafted CB when draft time comes around?

On the roster at the moment:

1. Adam "Pacman" Jones, 10 year vet
Jones is an established corner, one year removed from a career season at the position. While he has taken a step back this year, there is no reason to believe he couldn't continue to play a strong role for the team for the rest of his contract. However, disciplinary problems - on and off the field - may be his downfall. If the charges against him are proven, could the Bengals be forced to cut him (or lose him to suspension for a significant period)?

2. Dre Kirkpatrick, 1st round pick, FA this year
Dre has battled through an injury ravaged first couple of seasons to make the CB2 position his own. While he, too, has discipline issues on the field, his play has shown significant improvement and he will be a sought after player in free agency. Will his asking price be too much for the team to bear?

3. Darqueze Dennard, 1st round pick
Dennard also struggled with injuries in his early seasons. Unlike Dre, however, he has not been able to hold down a starting role. Indeed, he has been beaten out to the slot corner role by Josh Shaw and does not appear to have the coverage skills to play outside. With a decision to be made on his 5th Year Option in May, could this be Dennard's final season in the Jungle?

4. William Jackson III, 1st round pick
Last year's first rounder, Jackson missed the entire season on IR due to a torn pectoral muscle. Who knows whether he will turn out to be Dre, Darqueze, or something else entirely?

5. Josh Shaw, 4th round pick
Calling Shaw a fourth rounder has always seemed a little silly. Like Burfict, Shaw's draft stock fell due to concerns around character - concerns that have not surfaced in his career with the team so far. Shaw has had a capable season as slot corner and should continue to develop next year.

6. Keivarae Russell, 3rd round pick (KC)
Russell was liked enough by Kansas City to be taken in the 3rd round, but was then a victim of a late cut during the early weeks of the season and claimed by Cincy on waivers. This could turn out to be a blessing in disguise - while he has only made the field for one snap, that resulted in an athletic interception on the sidelines that basically ended the game against the Ravens. Like WJ3, this could be a great pickup or he could be a backup for a few years. Who knows!

So there you have it. We have a pretty loaded CB group at the moment with 6 decent options. However, 2 may not be here come training camp and another might be in his last year. Do we draft high or not? It will all depend upon Free Agency. For me, I think we should take a mid-rounder (maybe with one of our 4ths) to keep the infusion of youth and increase the odds of getting a good one.

What say you?

[Jpoore]

(01-05-2017, 06:11 PM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: Corner (along with OL) is a hot topic position for the Bengals this offseason.  On the face of it, we have a lot of talent on the team, but - for one reason or another - are we going to see another high drafted CB when draft time comes around?

On the roster at the moment:

1. Adam "Pacman" Jones, 10 year vet
Jones is an established corner, one year removed from a career season at the position.  While he has taken a step back this year, there is no reason to believe he couldn't continue to play a strong role for the team for the rest of his contract.  However, disciplinary problems - on and off the field - may be his downfall.  If the charges against him are proven, could the Bengals be forced to cut him (or lose him to suspension for a significant period)?

2. Dre Kirkpatrick, 1st round pick, FA this year
Dre has battled through an injury ravaged first couple of seasons to make the CB2 position his own.  While he, too, has discipline issues on the field, his play has shown significant improvement and he will be a sought after player in free agency.  Will his asking price be too much for the team to bear?

3. Darqueze Dennard, 1st round pick
Dennard also struggled with injuries in his early seasons.  Unlike Dre, however, he has not been able to hold down a starting role.  Indeed, he has been beaten out to the slot corner role by Josh Shaw and does not appear to have the coverage skills to play outside.  With a decision to be made on his 5th Year Option in May, could this be Dennard's final season in the Jungle?

4. William Jackson III, 1st round pick
Last year's first rounder, Jackson missed the entire season on IR due to a torn pectoral muscle.  Who knows whether he will turn out to be Dre, Darqueze, or something else entirely?

5. Josh Shaw, 4th round pick
Calling Shaw a fourth rounder has always seemed a little silly.  Like Burfict, Shaw's draft stock fell due to concerns around character - concerns that have not surfaced in his career with the team so far.  Shaw has had a capable season as slot corner and should continue to develop next year.

6. Keivarae Russell, 3rd round pick (KC)
Russell was liked enough by Kansas City to be taken in the 3rd round, but was then a victim of a late cut during the early weeks of the season and claimed by Cincy on waivers.  This could turn out to be a blessing in disguise - while he has only made the field for one snap, that resulted in an athletic interception on the sidelines that basically ended the game against the Ravens.  Like WJ3, this could be a great pickup or he could be a backup for a few years.  Who knows!

So there you have it.  We have a pretty loaded CB group at the moment with 6 decent options.  However, 2 may not be here come training camp and another might be in his last year.  Do we draft high or not?  It will all depend upon Free Agency.  For me, I think we should take a mid-rounder (maybe with one of our 4ths) to keep the infusion of youth and increase the odds of getting a good one.

What say you?

agree with u in part but won't happen we only draft first round corners due to fact that we believe only the good corners are drafted in first round.

[Benton]

cut Adam. Keep the rest, although only if dre takes a contract like a guy that's had some injury concerns. If hes wanting starting CB money, let him walk.

[lostpoet2]

The fact that Dennard played like hot garbage this year worries me. I think Kirkpatrick, WJ3, and Shaw could be an above average trio, but that is pure speculation at this point due to the Peerman vs. WJ3 IR decision.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-05-2017, 07:07 PM)lostpoet2 Wrote: The fact that Dennard played like hot garbage this year worries me. I think Kirkpatrick, WJ3, and Shaw could be an above average trio, but that is pure speculation at this point due to the Peerman vs. WJ3 IR decision.

People on here are throwing the term "hot garbage" around far too lightly. Dennard was coming off injury
with very little experience playing in NFL games. He had some bad games but got better as the season went
on as he should.

Some need to have a little more patience with SOME players, Dennard being one of them.

I wonder if fans are going to call WJ3 hot garbage in his first game.

Dre was bad for 3 years before this one. Shaw is the only one that has really exceeded expectations.

To the OP, great job and i completely agree with you on grabbing a CB in the mid rounds. We just need to
trade McCarron and Hill for some more mid round picks. Lots of talent at TE, DE in the mid rounds this year.

[*jason*]

(01-05-2017, 08:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: People on here are throwing the term "hot garbage" around far too lightly. Dennard was coming off injury
with very little experience playing in NFL games. He had some bad games but got better as the season went
on as he should.

Some need to have a little more patience with SOME players, Dennard being one of them.

I wonder if fans are going to call WJ3 hot garbage in his first game.

Dre was bad for 3 years before this one. Shaw is the only one that has really exceeded expectations.

To the OP, great job and i completely agree with you on grabbing a CB in the mid rounds. We just need to
trade McCarron and Hill for some more mid round picks. Lots of talent at TE, DE in the mid rounds this year.

Agreed...

I think Dennard has been misused in the slot anyway. I'm not sure where the "doesn't have the coverage skills to play outside" comes from. He excelled there at Michigan State. He doesn't have the coverage skills to play the slot.

[CageTheBengal]

(01-05-2017, 07:07 PM)lostpoet2 Wrote: The fact that Dennard played like hot garbage this year worries me. I think Kirkpatrick, WJ3, and Shaw could be an above average trio, but that is pure speculation at this point due to the Peerman vs. WJ3 IR decision.

Kirk played like garbage for a while too until he got a legitimate shot at a starting role and worked through his injuries.

I still remember people calling for his head over a Pre-Season game against Dallas.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-05-2017, 06:24 PM)Benton Wrote: cut Adam. Keep the rest, although only if dre takes a contract like a guy that's had some injury concerns. If hes wanting starting CB money, let him walk.

Dre is a starting CB, so why wouldn't you pay him starter money?

[Buckeyes420]

(01-05-2017, 08:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: People on here are throwing the term "hot garbage" around far too lightly. Dennard was coming off injury
with very little experience playing in NFL games. He had some bad games but got better as the season went
on as he should.

Some need to have a little more patience with SOME players, Dennard being one of them.

I wonder if fans are going to call WJ3 hot garbage in his first game.

Dre was bad for 3 years before this one. Shaw is the only one that has really exceeded expectations.

To the OP, great job and i completely agree with you on grabbing a CB in the mid rounds. We just need to
trade McCarron and Hill for some more mid round picks. Lots of talent at TE, DE in the mid rounds this year.

Trade hill for what? A ham sandwich??? I prefer turkey or bologna..u?

[Buckeyes420]

(01-05-2017, 08:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: People on here are throwing the term "hot garbage" around far too lightly. Dennard was coming off injury
with very little experience playing in NFL games. He had some bad games but got better as the season went
on as he should.

Some need to have a little more patience with SOME players, Dennard being one of them.

I wonder if fans are going to call WJ3 hot garbage in his first game.

Dre was bad for 3 years before this one. Shaw is the only one that has really exceeded expectations.

To the OP, great job and i completely agree with you on grabbing a CB in the mid rounds. We just need to
trade McCarron and Hill for some more mid round picks. Lots of talent at TE, DE in the mid rounds this year.

As far as Dennards draft status goes he has been "hot garbage" i dont care if hes been hurt or not.the players picked around him could have really helped us this season.first round punt gunner is his ceiling.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Cut Pacman, make signing Dre a priority. Let Dennard and WJ3 battle for the other starting spot. Shaw is also solid. CB is not a position I'm worried about.

[Jpoore]

(01-06-2017, 03:44 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Cut Pacman, make signing Dre a priority. Let Dennard and WJ3 battle for the other starting spot. Shaw is also solid. CB is not a position I'm worried about.

see my problem with this is depth. u cut pacman and IF u sign dre k and say wjiii as other starting corner u have Dennard as starting slot. we talk about eifert being glass man but Dennard hasn't made it out of training camp healthy yet. hes always hurt. so then your talking about shaw as starting corner, with russell as your only legit backup? and if we don't sign dre k, were in HUGE trouble. then we have wjiii, shaw/Dennard(if hes healthy) and russel as starting corner with who chykie brown as only backup? that's my problem.

[Southendbengal]

(01-06-2017, 03:44 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Cut Pacman, make signing Dre a priority. Let Dennard and WJ3 battle for the other starting spot. Shaw is also solid. CB is not a position I'm worried about.

This.

Unless we are leaving a tonne of dead money on the table by cutting Pacman. (I'm not sure?)

[Jpoore]

(01-06-2017, 07:21 AM)Southendbengal Wrote: This.

Unless we are leaving a tonne of dead money on the table by cutting Pacman. (I'm not sure?)

the entire contract is only 6 million guaranteed so there is virtually no dead money

[Crowe]

I would cut Adam "Dumb ****" Jones and then explore whether or not to resign Kirk or go after a guy like Gilmore, or AJ Bouye or Mo Claiborne depending on price. Overall I think we have a lot of talent in the secondary.

[Southendbengal]

(01-06-2017, 07:45 AM)Jpoore Wrote: the entire contract is only 6 million guaranteed so there is virtually no dead money

In which case i would cut and roll with the others at CB. Plus you've freed up space to work a deal with Dre.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Good safeties over the top make cornerbacks better. The Bengals could cut Pacman Jones and save some dinero to get a better free safety than Shawn Williams. George Iloka isn't bad at strong safety but even he has his share of whiffed tackles.

In free agency the Bengals could pursue Eric Berry who had a nice year with the Chiefs or even look the almost-Bengals from the past like Donte Whitner and Dashon Goldson who are all free agents. If Cincinnati prefers to get a safety in the draft Ohio State's Malik Hooker might be there at #9.

My personal favorite defensive back in college is Minkah Fitzpatrick from Alabama. He's hard to accurately label because he can play both safety and cornerback and play both positions well. He's an old fashioned hybrid defensive back and Nick Saban says he's extremely intelligent along with being physical; basically a defensive back version of Vontaze Burfict minus the propensity for cray-cray penalties.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-05-2017, 09:49 PM)jason Wrote: Agreed...

I think Dennard has been misused in the slot anyway. I'm not sure where the "doesn't have the coverage skills to play outside" comes from. He excelled there at Michigan State. He doesn't have the coverage skills to play the slot.

Yep, misused. He is a CB that thrives on the outside, that is where you put him.

Dre, Dennard on the outside with WJ3/Shaw in the Slot with Shaw also playing Safety if Shawn continues to struggle.

Bottom line, Shaw makes it all possible with his versatility.

(01-06-2017, 02:08 AM)Buckeyes420 Wrote: Trade hill for what? A ham sandwich??? I prefer turkey or bologna..u?

Hill is like 1st or 2nd in the NFL in TD's since he came into the league.

Package him with McCarron and we could get atleast a couple mid rounders out of them i betcha.

Gimme that ham sammitch.

(01-06-2017, 02:12 AM)Buckeyes420 Wrote: As far as Dennards draft status goes he has been "hot garbage" i dont care if hes been hurt or not.the players picked around him could have really helped us this season.first round punt gunner is his ceiling.

Where is the roll my eyes emoticon? This will have to do...

[Sigfox77]

(01-06-2017, 01:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep, misused. He is a CB that thrives on the outside, that is where you put him.

Dre, Dennard on the outside with WJ3/Shaw in the Slot with Shaw also playing Safety if Shawn continues to struggle.

Bottom line, Shaw makes it all possible with his versatility.


Hill is like 1st or 2nd in the NFL in TD's since he came into the league.

Package him with McCarron and we could get atleast a couple mid rounders out of them i betcha.

Gimme that ham sammitch.


Where is the roll my eyes emoticon? This will have to do...

What about Dennard's play gives you confidence he should be playing on the outside? Even with minimal snaps this season he was beat consistently and even let TEs behind him. I hope he pans out, but he is looking more like a total bust than a starter. With that said, I think you have to believe WJIII can be a #2 CB with DreK as a #1. I am indifferent on Pac. I am in favor of cutting him if they sign Dre and keeping him otherwise. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-06-2017, 02:26 PM)Sigfox77 Wrote: What about Dennard's play gives you confidence he should be playing on the outside? Even with minimal snaps this season he was beat consistently and even let TEs behind him. I hope he pans out, but he is looking more like a total bust than a starter. With that said, I think you have to believe WJIII can be a #2 CB with DreK as a #1. I am indifferent on Pac. I am in favor of cutting him if they sign Dre and keeping him otherwise. 

Dennard always played on the outside in college and was the main dude in the No Fly Zone at Michigan State.

He got better as the season went on and once his injury got behind him. You could be right and he could be a bust if he
continues to struggle with injuries. We will see but it is early to say such and with Dennard's fluid hips and ability to play
the ball in the air he could be good, real good and live up to his draft status.

But so could WJ3 who is longer and faster.

Happy to have both, just hope they can stay healthy.

Shaw as well who i really love. Dude is one big, physical CB/S.