Lapham thinks Bengals should trade McCarron

[Derrick]

(01-10-2017, 01:24 AM)Jpoore Wrote: This came out before bridgewater got hurt. It wasn't the Vikings I highly doubt.
If we get 2 seconds I would do something like Williams in 1st Walker 2nd elflien 2nd McMillan if he lasts in 3rd if not beckwith.

I doubt the Bengals get any of these players. I hope I am wrong.

[Jpoore]

(01-10-2017, 02:26 AM)Derrick Wrote: I doubt the Bengals get any of these players. I hope I am wrong.

would u care to explain? Think they go higher or?

[hollodero]

(01-09-2017, 01:19 PM)lone bengal Wrote: He's a free agent at the end of next season so I would even take a 3rd round pick for him.  No point in letting him walk next year and get nothing for him

...nothing except a compensatory pick, probably a high one. That doesn't get old... 
...so trading him for a 3rd might not make too much sense after all.

[lone bengal]

(01-10-2017, 06:05 AM)hollodero Wrote: ...nothing except a compensatory pick, probably a high one. That doesn't get old... 
...so trading him for a 3rd might not make too much sense after all.

Yeah not really sure how the compensatory pick system works so that's why I said 3rd. From what I gather it's a complicated formula that has to do with playing time and money ,if he signs somewhere else next year? If somebody signs him to start then we're prob looking at a high pick ? But who knows what a team will value him at two years removed from playing any significant games. I just don't feel like waiting to draft this maybe high comp pick next season and wait till it takes 2-3 years to develop them and waste roster space with 2 backup quarterbacks on the roster like we did this season. Dalton, Green, Dunlap, Geno, are all in their primes we need to win now. If we were really offered a 2nd and 4th last year we should have jumped on it while his stock was at its highest ,those picks could have help the team this season.

[THE PISTONS]

He'll be a Restricted Free Agent...meaning we can tender him and get compensation if another team signs him.

[TKUHL]

(01-10-2017, 01:24 AM)Jpoore Wrote: This came out before bridgewater got hurt. It wasn't the Vikings I highly doubt.
If we get 2 seconds I would do something like Williams in 1st Walker 2nd elflien 2nd McMillan if he lasts in 3rd if not beckwith.

I would use one of the second on a RB or TE

[TKUHL]

(01-10-2017, 06:05 AM)hollodero Wrote: ...nothing except a compensatory pick, probably a high one. That doesn't get old... 
...so trading him for a 3rd might not make too much sense after all.

This makes no sense. How is hoping to get a high comp pick better than trading for a 3rd? Its not like were going to get a comp pick higher than that.

[hollodero]

(01-10-2017, 11:00 AM)TKUHL Wrote: This makes no sense. How is hoping to get a high comp pick better than trading for a 3rd? Its not like were going to get a comp pick higher than that.

Well, we would have a capable - and affordable - backup QB for one additional year. That's worth something, the way I see it.
3rd + solved backup QB position > higher 3rd.

And one might value that differently, I foremost wanted to refute the notion that we would get "nothing". That's not true. Now no one seems to know the formula behind that comp picks, but it seems to largely depend on the new contract - and QBs get quite big ones, so I assume a 4th is certain and a 3rd is likely.

[Hoofhearted]

(01-09-2017, 01:19 PM)lone bengal Wrote: He's a free agent at the end of next season so I would even take a 3rd round pick for him.  No point in letting him walk next year and get nothing for him ,plus we have a ton of holes on this roster to fill. If they don't trade him keeping Driskel this season made no sense.  His value was at its highest last season don't see any way a team gives up a 1st round pick for him.  I also think he's a bit overrated by Bengals fans.

This is also the reason why almost nobody will offer anything substantial. Why offer a first or second round pick for a one year rental vs a four year younger player? Just not smart for the other side. 

[Hoofhearted]

The best case they get for him would be a third, probably a fourth. Nobody will give a first or second. Nobody.

[Devils Advocate]

(01-10-2017, 11:24 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This is also the reason why almost nobody will offer anything substantial. Why offer a first or second round pick for a one year rental vs a four year younger player? Just not smart for the other side. 

This isn't true at all.

Having a (good) QB on your roster is a victory in and of itself. They simply don't hit the open market.

If a team feels like AJ is a good QB, then his one year contract is irrelevant. They won't let him sniff free agency.

[Au165]

(01-10-2017, 10:51 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He'll be a Restricted Free Agent...meaning we can tender him and get compensation if another team signs him.

Time Value of money property is applied to draft picks (see pick values being cut in half for future picks). Picks this year are worth more than possible picks next year.

[Jpoore]

(01-10-2017, 10:53 AM)TKUHL Wrote: I would use one of the second on a RB or TE

eh I'm one of the few that love mixon with a comp pick. Wouldn't mind butt in late second though 

[Hoofhearted]

(01-10-2017, 11:35 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote:  

This isn't true at all.

Having a (good) QB on your roster is a victory in and of itself. They simply don't hit the open market.

If a team feels like AJ is a good QB, then his one year contract is irrelevant. They won't let him sniff free agency.

Here's a list of all QB's traded and what they got. You tell me if AJ will get somewhere close to what those guys got. 

Still say nobody will give a first for him... Second is a long shot, but likely depending on draft position. Stand by a third & probably fourth to boot.

[Devils Advocate]

(01-10-2017, 11:51 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote:
Here's a list of all QB's traded and what they got. You tell me if AJ will get somewhere close to what those guys got. 

Still say nobody will give a first for him... Second is a long shot, but likely depending on draft position. Stand by a third & probably fourth to boot.

Yes. I think they will get a first for AJ.

I personally don't believe he's worth that, but that's the premium in place. If they don't get a first, I guarantee it will be a second and a boat load of other picks or something similar; not just a second and a fourth, for example.

If it's not a first, I'm guessing two seconds with an additional pick in the later rounds. It's just the way the NFL works when it comes to QB's.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-10-2017, 11:37 AM)Au165 Wrote: Time Value of money property is applied to draft picks (see pick values being cut in half for future picks). Picks this year are worth more than possible picks next year.

That's not true...especially because team draft positions change each year...and some drafts are stronger than others.

[Au165]

(01-10-2017, 03:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's not true...especially because team draft positions change each year...and some drafts are stronger than others.

No, it is very true. Most teams use a value chart for doing trades for picks. These charts show what the value in points for every pick in the draft is. If you traded  McCaron for say a 2nd pick this year that same pick would be worth about half that amount if it was next years 2nd give or take a percentage of the total value. With that understood if you got a 2nd this year versus a 1st next year (via tender) by most charts the 2nd this year has more value than the 1st next assuming it wasn't a top 3 team.

[Hoofhearted]

(01-10-2017, 02:38 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Yes. I think they will get a first for AJ.

I personally don't believe he's  worth that, but that's the premium in place. If they don't get a first, I  guarantee it will be a second and a boat load of other picks or something similar; not just a second and a fourth, for example.

If it's not a first, I'm guessing two seconds with an additional pick in the later rounds. It's just the way the NFL works when it comes to QB's.

I just don't see it. I honestly don't believe people will be knocking the doors down for a QB with a handful-ish of games and is not on the younger side, when you can probably get a Deshaun Watson or Davis Webb for longer than that and not give up as many picks.

Seems like a big risk (few high round picks), with a "ok" reward (avg QB).  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-10-2017, 03:54 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I just don't see it. I honestly don't believe people will be knocking the doors down for a QB with a handful-ish of games and is not on the younger side, when you can probably get a Deshaun Watson or Davis Webb for longer than that and not give up as many picks.

Seems like a big risk (few high round picks), with a "ok" reward (avg QB).  

Yeah, i find it very unlikely we get a 1st for McCarron or like DA says a 2nd and boatload of picks.

He is a decent backup but lets not act like he set the world on fire when he started.

He won against crappy teams and lost to good teams.

Hope i am wrong but i think Osweiler really made teams think twice about paying handsomely for a QB
that only played a little more than a handful of games. McCarron played only a handful-ish of games like
you said. If i was a QB needy team, a 2nd and a 4th would be as much as i would want to pay for AJ.

[muskiesfan]

There's no reason to keep McCarron. He wants to start and that's just not going to happen in Cincinnati. Unfortunately, I think the Bengals waited too long and lost a lot of leverage. If the rumors of a 2nd and 4th are true, they should have made that trade last season. If they can still get a 2nd+, that would be great, but I'm not counting on it. I highly doubt they get a 1st for McCarron. I don't see why any team would pay that price.

Bengals fans ALWAYS overvalue our players. If someone who wasn't a fan or was a very casual fan read these forums, they'd be led to believe that Chris Henry was a Hall of Famer and Chad Johnson is hot garbage. I know that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not much of one. McCarron isn't worth a 1st and his limited playing time didn't make him look like he's worth a 1st either. There's only 1 QB on the Bengals team worth a 1st round pick and he'll be starting next season. His name is NOT AJ McCarron.