Mike Williams

[Au165]

Something to think about, I know off topic but based on the lineman talk here, if we replace Center and it doesn't require the HB to work inside every time in pass protection one of the tackles can then get help from the HB. The HB works inside out in pass protection, so anytime Bodine missed the HB was supposed to take the guy right in Dalton's face. By going Center we may be in turn making the tackles better by the fact they can get some help now. I don't want Center early, but we need someone to challenge Bodine at some point.

[Buckeyes420]

(01-10-2017, 12:28 PM)Jpoore Wrote: see I've been doing my mocks based on 2 2nd round draft picks since I think we get a second for mccarron at least so I go Mike Williams demarcus Walker pat elflien in first 2 rounds.

A one trick pony with a scary injury history.i would not be happy with this pick as i have evaluated Corey Davis as a better prospect 

[Buckeyes420]

And jpoore u should expand your film study beyond mike williams and damarcus walker.i want you to watch all the Corey davis film and get back with me

[Jpoore]

(01-12-2017, 10:20 PM)Buckeyes420 Wrote: A one trick pony with a scary injury history.i would not be happy with this pick as i have evaluated Corey Davis as a better prospect 

I've watched almost all the film before I watched the film thought there was a significant gap I was very surprised at how Davis played. Drops were a bit of an issue but not to bad bc they force feed him. I liked him in the Wisconsin game. As of this moment Williams is still the better receiver in my mind. He doesn't run routes quite as well as Davis but he is built into his frame really well and he's got an insane catch radius.  On the other hand Davis reminds me of obj where he catches short/mid passes and goes all the way for a Td. Personally I prefer Williams just bc that would give us 2 receiver that we could throw it deep and u were pretty sure they would come up with it. What I really need to see is the senior bowl. Davis played well against Wisconsin who actually have good corners but they're really short corners. I need to see Davis do it against a 6 foot 200 pound corner who has the size and length to stay with him.

[BobJones4980]

(01-12-2017, 10:21 PM)Buckeyes420 Wrote: And jpoore u should expand your film study beyond mike williams and damarcus walker.i want you to watch all the Corey davis film and get back with me

I like them both but I still think Williams is the better player overall and for this team. 

As for the one trick pony thing that is just not true, Williams in the Alabama game alone was all over the place with Screens, slants, Short to mid range passes and getting deep. I also think Williams is better at catching the ball at its highest point.

Also watching both guys play against the best competition on there schedule you do have to consider that Davis had a solid game with 73 yards and a TD against Wisconsin(#13 D) while the guy you labeled as a "one trick pony" had 96 yards against OSU and 93 yards + a TD against Bama, he had 2 great games against 2 top 4 defenses on the biggest stages in college football.

I honestly like both of these guys and with that said neither of them are my top choices for round 1 as I think Fournette, one of the top 2 DE, Cam Robinson or maybe even Hooker would be better choices for this team as I think the type of WR we need can be found later in the draft or better yet someone in FA as the team has shown a willingness to go after WRs in free agency in the past.

A favorite of mine is Stacy Coley in round 3-4, Has the speed to be that deep threat and I think he is gonna be a guy that is a better NFL player than college player. Reminds me a bit of Marvin Jones, solid size with great speed to get open deep and they both had QBs that held them back in college.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-13-2017, 01:20 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I've watched almost all the film before I watched the film thought there was a significant gap I was very surprised at how Davis played. Drops were a bit of an issue but not to bad bc they force feed him. I liked him in the Wisconsin game. As of this moment Williams is still the better receiver in my mind. He doesn't run routes quite as well as Davis but he is built into his frame really well and he's got an insane catch radius.  On the other hand Davis reminds me of obj where he catches short/mid passes and goes all the way for a Td. Personally I prefer Williams just bc that would give us 2 receiver that we could throw it deep and u were pretty sure they would come up with it. What I really need to see is the senior bowl. Davis played well against Wisconsin who actually have good corners but they're really short corners. I need to see Davis do it against a 6 foot 200 pound corner who has the size and length to stay with him.

Why? Because one game really won't change your opinion of a guy on way or the other?

(01-06-2017, 06:32 PM)Jpoore Wrote: As far as games and everything 1 game isn't gonna change my view of a guy one way or the other.

[Jpoore]

(01-13-2017, 01:45 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Why? Because one game really won't change your opinion of a guy on way or the other?

It's not a game it's the drills and everything that make me wanna see if he can do it against tip corners getting separation. 

[Buckeyes420]

(01-13-2017, 01:23 AM)BobJones4980 Wrote: I like them both but I still think Williams is the better player overall and for this team. 

As for the one trick pony thing that is just not true, Williams in the Alabama game alone was all over the place with Screens, slants, Short to mid range passes and getting deep. I also think Williams is better at catching the ball at its highest point.

Also watching both guys play against the best competition on there schedule you do have to consider that Davis had a solid game with 73 yards and a TD against Wisconsin(#13 D) while the guy you labeled as a "one trick pony" had 96 yards against OSU and 93 yards + a TD against Bama, he had 2 great games against 2 top 4 defenses on the biggest stages in college football.

I honestly like both of these guys and with that said neither of them are my top choices for round 1 as I think Fournette, one of the top 2 DE, Cam Robinson or maybe even Hooker would be better choices for this team as I think the type of WR we need can be found later in the draft or better yet someone in FA as the team has shown a willingness to go after WRs in free agency in the past.

A favorite of mine is Stacy Coley in round 3-4, Has the speed to be that deep threat and I think he is gonna be a guy that is a better NFL player than college player. Reminds me a bit of Marvin Jones, solid size with great speed to get open deep and they both had QBs that held them back in college.

I dont really want a wr at 9 as much as i do a rb or De.But i really would prefer Davis over Williams.i just dont think he will get the seperation you would expect at #9.That being said if we were to take Williams at 9 he would need to contribute right away and not alot of WR can do that as rookies

[Buckeyes420]

(01-13-2017, 01:20 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I've watched almost all the film before I watched the film thought there was a significant gap I was very surprised at how Davis played. Drops were a bit of an issue but not to bad bc they force feed him. I liked him in the Wisconsin game. As of this moment Williams is still the better receiver in my mind. He doesn't run routes quite as well as Davis but he is built into his frame really well and he's got an insane catch radius.  On the other hand Davis reminds me of obj where he catches short/mid passes and goes all the way for a Td. Personally I prefer Williams just bc that would give us 2 receiver that we could throw it deep and u were pretty sure they would come up with it. What I really need to see is the senior bowl. Davis played well against Wisconsin who actually have good corners but they're really short corners. I need to see Davis do it against a 6 foot 200 pound corner who has the size and length to stay with him.

They both have a huge catch radius.i just like the route running and burst of Davis a little more

[Jpoore]

(01-13-2017, 04:03 AM)Buckeyes420 Wrote: They both have a huge catch radius.i just like the route running and burst of Davis a little more

yeah u can't go wrong with either Davis has that early separation Williams has that late separation when the ball in the air.

[Au165]

(01-12-2017, 10:20 PM)Buckeyes420 Wrote: A one trick pony with a scary injury history.i would not be happy with this pick as i have evaluated Corey Davis as a better prospect 

Did you evaluate Williams for real though? You just called him a one trick pony.....he actually runs more slants than go routes. His route tree is somewhat limited, however he gets separation against top corners and it'll translate into NFL production. Davis on the other hand is an unknown as he has played a weak schedule that makes any reasonable person question his ability against top defenders. As already pointed out Williams had around 100 yards and a TD against defensive backs that will be day 1 and 2 CBs in this years draft the last two games of the year.

[Buckeyes420]

(01-13-2017, 09:48 AM)Au165 Wrote: Did you evaluate Williams for real though? You just called him a one trick pony.....he actually runs more slants than go routes. His route tree is somewhat limited, however he gets separation against top corners and it'll translate into NFL production. Davis on the other hand is an unknown as he has played a weak schedule that makes any reasonable person question his ability against top defenders. As already pointed out Williams had around 100 yards and a TD against defensive backs that will be day 1 and 2 CBs in this years draft the last two games of the year.

Well i guess we should just crown him as the next Mike Evans if its coming from you.Sammy Watkins did the same things and he went higher than williams will go.history says a limited route tree without speed is a bad combo.Jerry Rice played great competition when he was in college didnt he? My opinion from what i have seen is I like Davis alot better .Having more post doesnt make you more knowledgable.Ive forgot more about talent evaluation than you will probably ever know ...But i will keep my eyes open for the next Jerry rice aka Mike Williams.thanks !

[Au165]

(01-13-2017, 10:03 AM)Buckeyes420 Wrote: Well i guess we should just crown him as the next Mike Evans if its coming from you.Sammy Watkins did the same things and he went higher than williams will go.history says a limited route tree without speed is a bad combo.Jerry Rice played great competition when he was in college didnt he? My opinion from what i have seen is I like Davis alot better .Having more post doesnt make you more knowledgable.Ive forgot more about talent evaluation than you will probably ever know ...But i will keep my eyes open for the next Jerry rice aka Mike Williams.thanks !

Huh? You said he was a one trick pony, and you were wrong. Not sure why your getting your panties in a bunch. He can run the 9 and create seperation, but he probably runs more curls, slants, outs. His ability to use his body to shield the ball on slants will make him a very good chain mover. As for his speed you realize he is projected to run a mid 4.4 right? That would put him around the same 40 as guys like AJ, Dez, Brown.

You somehow drew the association between posts and knowledge, I am simply challenging you on a forum about prospects to "show your work". Anyone can say they watch tape, and many here make that claim, but when you make an observation I like have a discussion about it as thats what these things are for. You can like Davis, I think he is good too, but any scout will tell you his lack of production against top tier CBs is going to be a flag they will have to vetted.

Interestingly enough your Mike Evans comparison isn't a bad comparison. He will probably be similar speed little shorter similar ball skills. Evans came out of A&M with a small route tree as well. Evans was more adept to post up jump ball situations in the red zone, but Williams has the ability to do it. I think Williams talent is in tracking the ball when in tight coverage down the field. I think he could find similar success if he can stay healthy and get a competent QB.

[Buckeyes420]

(01-13-2017, 11:04 AM)Au165 Wrote: Huh? You said he was a one trick pony, and you were wrong. Not sure why your getting your panties in a bunch. He can run the 9 and create seperation, but he probably runs more curls, slants, outs. His ability to use his body to shield the ball on slants will make him a very good chain mover. As for his speed you realize he is projected to run a mid 4.4 right? That would put him around the same 40 as guys like AJ, Dez, Brown.

You somehow drew the association between posts and knowledge, I am simply challenging you on a forum about prospects to "show your work". Anyone can say they watch tape, and many here make that claim, but when you make an observation I like have a discussion about it as thats what these things are for. You can like Davis, I think he is good too, but any scout will tell you his lack of production against top tier CBs is going to be a flag they will have to vetted.

Interestingly enough your Mike Evans comparison isn't a bad comparison. He will probably be similar speed little shorter similar ball skills. Evans came out of A&M with a small route tree as well. Evans was more adept to post up jump ball situations in the red zone, but Williams has the ability to do it. I think Williams talent is in tracking the ball when in tight coverage down the field. I think he could find similar success if he can stay healthy 

Key word is projected.buckeye420mom.com is projecting him to be president one day.i stand by the one trick pony comment on Williams.9/10 of his catches are jumpballs with zero yac..I use the Mike Evans comparison very loosly in they are both big.Corey Davis will give u the jumpball also but will turn it up field for 80 yards if need be.Davis is more of the obj/aj green type total reciever.Every team game planned him .Williams would get safety help over the top and go long stretches with nada.Davis produced no matter what,with coverages rolled to his side everytime.i wonder what Davis stats would be if he had Deshaun Watson throwing him the ball

[Au165]

(01-13-2017, 02:50 PM)Buckeyes420 Wrote: Key word is projected.buckeye420mom.com is projecting him to be president one day.i stand by the one trick pony comment on Williams.9/10 of his catches are jumpballs with zero yac..I use the Mike Evans comparison very loosly in they are both big.Corey Davis will give u the jumpball also but will turn it up field for 80 yards if need be.Davis is more of the obj/aj green type total reciever.Every team game planned him .Williams would get safety help over the top and go long stretches with nada.Davis produced no matter what,with coverages rolled to his side everytime.i wonder what Davis stats would be if he had Deshaun Watson throwing him the ball

His 40 projection is well documented by multiple sources, we will see at the combine but either way it doesn't matter Bryant was a 4.52.

False, Go watch Alabama tape again my friend. 1 jump ball in the whole game, the rest was dominating man press against a very good secondary and a 1st round CB. On 12 targets, only 1 would be considered a 50/50 ball. If you aren't going to actually use real stats and make stuff up your not worth talking to. The same holds up in his other tape as well, as I said he runs more slants than any other route. I could argue Davis runs almost nothing but bubble screens and posts based on his real route distribution.

Davis is nothing like AJ Green. He is more OBJ, but doesn't have nearly the after the catch skills. He has little film against man press. Wisconsin showed man press but bailed at the line. Most play him in off coverage because they worry about his speed, it won't be the issue in the NFL so I need to see more press man against Davis.

Both have the opportunity to be good. Neither one of their success has any factor on if the other one will or won't be successful. It's like arguing over ice cream flavors, either way it's still ice cream.

[BobJones4980]

(01-13-2017, 03:59 AM)Buckeyes420 Wrote: I dont really want a wr at 9 as much as i do a rb or De.But i really would prefer Davis over Williams.i just dont think he will get the seperation you would expect at #9.That being said if we were to take Williams at 9 he would need to contribute right away and not alot of WR can do that as rookies

Yea I just don't think a WR is gonna do much his first season on this team because our coaches would start guys like Core and Wright over a rookie. Rookie RB to me atleast provides the most immediate help that will see the field in year 1. 

Also higly doubt we draft an Olineman early unless we lose Zeitler.

As for the Williams and Davis debate, im fine with debating who does what better but calling a guy a one trick pony when he runs quite a few routes is only gonna hurt any discussion you want to have. Williams is a good player and does alot on the field but I dont think either WR is worth #9.

[Buckeyes420]

[quote='Au165' pid='334141' dateline='1484330545']

His 40 projection is well documented by multiple sources, we will see at the combine but either way it doesn't matter Bryant was a 4.52.

False, Go watch Alabama tape again my friend. 1 jump ball in the whole game, the rest was dominating man press against a very good secondary and a 1st round CB. On 12 targets, only 1 would be considered a 50/50 ball. If you aren't going to actually use real stats and make stuff up your not worth talking to. The same holds up in his other tape as well, as I said he runs more slants than any other route. I could argue Davis runs almost nothing but bubble screens and posts based on his real route distribution.

Davis is nothing like AJ Green. He is more OBJ, but doesn't have nearly the after the catch skills. He has little film against man press. Wisconsin showed man press but bailed at the line. Most play him in off coverage because they worry about his speed, it won't be the issue in the NFL so I need to see more press man against Davis.

Both have the opportunity to be good. Neither one of their success has any factor on if the other one will or won't be successful. It's like arguing over ice cream flavors, either way it's still ice cream.
.Of all the catches by Williams this year excluding the national championship which seems to be the only game you reference,the majority was a catch with no yac.yes he made a few big plays but not in the same as Davis 

[Au165]

(01-13-2017, 04:33 PM)Buckeyes420 Wrote:  .Of all the catches by Williams this year excluding the national championship which seems to be the only game you reference,the majority was a catch with no yac.yes he made a few big plays but not in the same as Davis 

The reason I point to the National title game frequently is because that was the best competition either WR faced (plus it was the last film on Williams I watched). Williams isn't a possession WR as much as Davis is. You mention AJ and OBJ earlier Williams is more Green and Davis is more OBJ. If you watch AJ really isn't a catch the ball in short area and make them miss guy, he runs over guys more than around them similar to Williams. OBJ on the other hand can take a slant 80 yards and that is more what you'll get from Davis.

[Buckeyes420]

(01-13-2017, 04:47 PM)Au165 Wrote: The reason I point to the National title game frequently is because that was the best competition either WR faced (plus it was the last film on Williams I watched). Williams isn't a possession WR as much as Davis is. You mention AJ and OBJ earlier Williams is more Green and Davis is more OBJ. If you watch AJ really isn't a catch the ball in short area and make them miss guy, he runs over guys more than around them similar to Williams. OBJ on the other hand can take a slant 80 yards and that is more what you'll get from Davis.

I guess i can agree with that.Lets save this conversation till after the combine and we can revist it then.

[Jpoore]

(01-13-2017, 04:25 PM)BobJones4980 Wrote: Yea I just don't think a WR is gonna do much his first season on this team because our coaches would start guys like Core and Wright over a rookie. Rookie RB to me atleast provides the most immediate help that will see the field in year 1. 

Also higly doubt we draft an Olineman early unless we lose Zeitler.

As for the Williams and Davis debate, im fine with debating who does what better but calling a guy a one trick pony when he runs quite a few routes is only gonna hurt any discussion you want to have. Williams is a good player and does alot on the field but I dont think either WR is worth #9.

They both are more complete wrs than Hopkins or Watkins. They are both deserving of top 6-15. A guy like Davis will definitely start week 1 with his array of route running. Williams will start week 1 as well.

(01-13-2017, 04:47 PM)Au165 Wrote: The reason I point to the National title game frequently is because that was the best competition either WR faced (plus it was the last film on Williams I watched). Williams isn't a possession WR as much as Davis is. You mention AJ and OBJ earlier Williams is more Green and Davis is more OBJ. If you watch AJ really isn't a catch the ball in short area and make them miss guy, he runs over guys more than around them similar to Williams. OBJ on the other hand can take a slant 80 yards and that is more what you'll get from Davis.

Gotta disagree with you there osu secondary was much better than Alabama.