2 Quarterbacks could turn this team around

[Burma]

Surprise!  This is not an Andy Dalton thread!  :andy:

The Bengals are in a position this year in which 2 QBs could have significant value to other teams and the potential to bring the Bengals equally significant draft compensation.  So who are these mystery QBs?

QB 1: AJ McCarron   Not really a surprise here.  Trading AJ is a hot topic now, and for good reasons.  After reviewing the teams with needs for a QB and looking at their draft positioning and picks available 1 team has stood out as a good trading partner for AJ.  The Bears.

Why the Bears?  The Bears are picking in a slot in which there will be several franchise quality players available to them.  None of which appear to be a QB.  The sound thing for them to do is to take one of these players and look later for a QB.  Their draft slotting is high enough that their later round picks will have solid value to other teams.  Also, they are in the position of being able to bring back Alshon Jeffery and not having to reach for a WR with that first pick.  

So what? What do the Bengals get?  If the Bengals are able to negotiate a trade with the Bears, solid compensation would be the Bears 3rd (67th), and 4th (107th) round picks.

Now for the twist!

QB 2:  Desean Watson  Why is he significant to the Bengals?  The Buffalo Bills and the Washington Redskins.  The Bills have the pick immediately after the Bengals and Watson could easily be the pick there.  The Bills need a QB badly after running Tyrod Taylor out, and they have a new coach.  The Redskins are facing the choice of making Kirk Cousins their franchise QB.  Rumor has it that they are likely to franchise tag him.  Obviously if they were sold on him they would have worked a long term deal out by now.  But, they would have to jump the Bills to get Watson, obviously.

Why would Redskins make a trade? Besides the aforementioned reasons, Watson would be a great fit in the quick read, 3 step west coast scheme Jay Gruden runs. Jay has to also love the running dynamic Watson brings, even if he utilizes it but rarely.  The Redskins also have 2 later 1st round picks and 8! picks in the last 4 rounds of the draft.  This gives them the flexibility of targeting players they want early, and also restocking the bottom half of the roster in the later rounds.  Also, the Redskins are projected to have close to $70 million in cap space!! This staggering cap space will allow them to fill key needs with solid free agents and open their draft.

So what? What do the Bengals get?  Potentially a lot.  Using the trade chart a trade consisting of Washington packaging their 1st of 2 1st round picks(17th), 2nd (49th) and 3rd(81st) to the Bengals for the Bengals 1st (9th), 4th (107th from the Bears), and 4th (112) picks results in a trade value of Redskins: 1545 to Bengals: 1500. A slightly favorable trade for the Bengals in raw points, but well within the "QB Premium" which usually inflates these QB based trades.

Why would the Bengals do any of this?  
1. Value. Moving McCarron now is a must.
2. The Bengals draft slot.

• The Bengals are slotted at 9. Their biggest needs are DE and Oline.  The 2 best DE in this draft are quite probably going to be off the board (Garrett and Barnett) and the best OT is the draft may not even be BPA at the time.  The likely BPAs are going to be 2 Safeties, 2 RBs, a LB, a WR, and a CB.  The Bengals love Iloka and just gave Shawn Williams a big contract, and they don't break contracts typically so I would rule out a safety.  They also have rarely drafted a LB in the 1st much less the top 10. Dalvin Cook could interest them, but just seems a total luxury without the required Oline. Mike Williams could be a true stud, but may not be BPA.  Taking the trade with the Redskins puts them into a good value spot.  At 17 there will most likely be 2 very good DEs that meet the Bengals fetish of long and lanky, Malik McDowell (DE/DT, Michigan State), and Taco Charleton (DE, Michigan), the maybe #1 LT prospect in Ryan Ramczyk (LT, Wisconsin), a very good coverage LB in Zach Cunningham (OLB, Vandy).  Plus they get the added bonus of 2 high picks later.

Draft picks would then be:
1st (17th)
2nd (41st)
2nd (49th)
3rd (67th)
3rd (73rd)
2 comp 4th round picks
5th (@156)
6th (193)
2 comp 6th round picks
7th (@ 230)  

That would easily take care of the top of the roster needs and also provide for a potential to restock the back end.

[bengalsturntup926]

If they were smart enough. I hate seeing mccaron go, I think he will be successful. But he's not going to play here obviously. Dalton's got too many fans, and coaches are all in on him. But I would like to have a lot of picks like that.

[McC]

No, Mike Ditka, we don't want your entire draft so you can take Ricky Williams.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-14-2017, 02:46 AM)McC Wrote: No, Mike Ditka, we don't want your entire draft so you can take Ricky Williams.

It wasn't just his entire draft..... It was his entire 1999 draft, his 2000 1st rounder, 2001 1st rounder, and 2002 2nd rounder.


...still can't believe it. Thanks for bringing it back up.  Lol

[*Go Cards*]

(01-14-2017, 01:51 AM)Burma Wrote: Surprise!  This is not an Andy Dalton thread!  :andy:

The Bengals are in a position this year in which 2 QBs could have significant value to other teams and the potential to bring the Bengals equally significant draft compensation.  So who are these mystery QBs?

QB 1: AJ McCarron   Not really a surprise here.  Trading AJ is a hot topic now, and for good reasons.  After reviewing the teams with needs for a QB and looking at their draft positioning and picks available 1 team has stood out as a good trading partner for AJ.  The Bears.

Why the Bears?  The Bears are picking in a slot in which there will be several franchise quality players available to them.  None of which appear to be a QB.  The sound thing for them to do is to take one of these players and look later for a QB.  Their draft slotting is high enough that their later round picks will have solid value to other teams.  Also, they are in the position of being able to bring back Alshon Jeffery and not having to reach for a WR with that first pick.  

So what? What do the Bengals get?  If the Bengals are able to negotiate a trade with the Bears, solid compensation would be the Bears 3rd (67th), and 4th (107th) round picks.

Now for the twist!

QB 2:  Desean Watson  Why is he significant to the Bengals?  The Buffalo Bills and the Washington Redskins.  The Bills have the pick immediately after the Bengals and Watson could easily be the pick there.  The Bills need a QB badly after running Tyrod Taylor out, and they have a new coach.  The Redskins are facing the choice of making Kirk Cousins their franchise QB.  Rumor has it that they are likely to franchise tag him.  Obviously if they were sold on him they would have worked a long term deal out by now.  But, they would have to jump the Bills to get Watson, obviously.

Why would Redskins make a trade? Besides the aforementioned reasons, Watson would be a great fit in the quick read, 3 step west coast scheme Jay Gruden runs. Jay has to also love the running dynamic Watson brings, even if he utilizes it but rarely.  The Redskins also have 2 later 1st round picks and 8! picks in the last 4 rounds of the draft.  This gives them the flexibility of targeting players they want early, and also restocking the bottom half of the roster in the later rounds.  Also, the Redskins are projected to have close to $70 million in cap space!! This staggering cap space will allow them to fill key needs with solid free agents and open their draft.

So what? What do the Bengals get?  Potentially a lot.  Using the trade chart a trade consisting of Washington packaging their 1st of 2 1st round picks(17th), 2nd (49th) and 3rd(81st) to the Bengals for the Bengals 1st (9th), 4th (107th from the Bears), and 4th (112) picks results in a trade value of Redskins: 1545 to Bengals: 1500. A slightly favorable trade for the Bengals in raw points, but well within the "QB Premium" which usually inflates these QB based trades.

Why would the Bengals do any of this?  
1. Value. Moving McCarron now is a must.
2. The Bengals draft slot.

• The Bengals are slotted at 9. Their biggest needs are DE and Oline.  The 2 best DE in this draft are quite probably going to be off the board (Garrett and Barnett) and the best OT is the draft may not even be BPA at the time.  The likely BPAs are going to be 2 Safeties, 2 RBs, a LB, a WR, and a CB.  The Bengals love Iloka and just gave Shawn Williams a big contract, and they don't break contracts typically so I would rule out a safety.  They also have rarely drafted a LB in the 1st much less the top 10. Dalvin Cook could interest them, but just seems a total luxury without the required Oline. Mike Williams could be a true stud, but may not be BPA.  Taking the trade with the Redskins puts them into a good value spot.  At 17 there will most likely be 2 very good DEs that meet the Bengals fetish of long and lanky, Malik McDowell (DE/DT, Michigan State), and Taco Charleton (DE, Michigan), the maybe #1 LT prospect in Ryan Ramczyk (LT, Wisconsin), a very good coverage LB in Zach Cunningham (OLB, Vandy).  Plus they get the added bonus of 2 high picks later.

Draft picks would then be:
1st (17th)
2nd (41st)
2nd (49th)
3rd (67th)
3rd (73rd)
2 comp 4th round picks
5th (@156)
6th (193)
2 comp 6th round picks
7th (@ 230)  

That would easily take care of the top of the roster needs and also provide for a potential to restock the back end.

Great post and could see a scenario in draft coming up potentially as you laid out. 

If so though would be happy at this point if we got even just a 3rd rd pick for AJ 

coupled with what you said for our 1st and 4th. 

Plus if they pull off your plan (which is plausible) would bundle our  7th, 6th, 6th, and 6th and try and get another 4th.

Giving Bengals 9 draft picks with 8 of 9 being in 4th round or higher with lowest being a 5th.   

[Southendbengal]

I though that the Bears had been happy with Barkley's performance towards the end of the season and kinda wrote off any chance they would make a move for a QB. But your theory intrigued me so off I toddled this morning and found these threads on a couple of different sites for Bears fans:

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/showthread.php/84656-Would-you-be-happy-with-this-trade?s=629c04731b4b9a16a9dbfc9b84838cea

So this one is a straight up would they trade 1st Round poisitions and we give them AJ. Bumping us to 3rd in the draft.
Seems to be majority against but some support for by briefly skimming the thread.

Then I found this monster thread on another site.

http://www.bearsfansonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10630&sid=2b8799ffbca2516f3acd4b6aca456b91

The basics on this one appeared to indicate that most Bears fans seem to be behind the idea of trading for either Tyrod Taylor or Jimmy Garrapolo as opposed to AJ.

However these are fans forums and not what the GM's thoughts are obviously.

[Speedy Thomas]

Burma, great work. This is the kind of post that I come to these boards to read.

[*jason*]

(01-14-2017, 05:57 AM)Southendbengal Wrote: I though that the Bears had been happy with Barkley's performance towards the end of the season and kinda wrote off any chance they would make a move for a QB. But your theory intrigued me so off I toddled this morning and found these threads on a couple of different sites for Bears fans:

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/showthread.php/84656-Would-you-be-happy-with-this-trade?s=629c04731b4b9a16a9dbfc9b84838cea

So this one is a straight up would they trade 1st Round poisitions and we give them AJ. Bumping us to 3rd in the draft.
Seems to be majority against but some support for by briefly skimming the thread.

Then I found this monster thread on another site.

http://www.bearsfansonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10630&sid=2b8799ffbca2516f3acd4b6aca456b91

The basics on this one appeared to indicate that most Bears fans seem to be behind the idea of trading for either Tyrod Taylor or Jimmy Garrapolo as opposed to AJ.

However these are fans forums and not what the GM's thoughts are obviously.

I don't think there is an NFL fan base out there that is clamoring for AJ McCarron. I think some people will be very disappointed with the compensation the Bengals receive if they trade him.

[Shake n Blake]

I don't think Cousins is going anywhere after a 4900 yard season.

[Devils Advocate]

Kirk cousins isn't leaving Washington. So, they don't want or need a QB, especially another RGIII type. Their fans would go ballistic.

[BengalFanInNJ]

I love the thought behind this post. Great job.

I think a trade like this would be something many smart GM's would consider but Mike Brown wouldn't because it requires too many moving parts.

[Buckeyes420]

(01-14-2017, 01:51 AM)Burma Wrote: Surprise!  This is not an Andy Dalton thread!  :andy:

The Bengals are in a position this year in which 2 QBs could have significant value to other teams and the potential to bring the Bengals equally significant draft compensation.  So who are these mystery QBs?

QB 1: AJ McCarron   Not really a surprise here.  Trading AJ is a hot topic now, and for good reasons.  After reviewing the teams with needs for a QB and looking at their draft positioning and picks available 1 team has stood out as a good trading partner for AJ.  The Bears.

Why the Bears?  The Bears are picking in a slot in which there will be several franchise quality players available to them.  None of which appear to be a QB.  The sound thing for them to do is to take one of these players and look later for a QB.  Their draft slotting is high enough that their later round picks will have solid value to other teams.  Also, they are in the position of being able to bring back Alshon Jeffery and not having to reach for a WR with that first pick.  

So what? What do the Bengals get?  If the Bengals are able to negotiate a trade with the Bears, solid compensation would be the Bears 3rd (67th), and 4th (107th) round picks.

Now for the twist!

QB 2:  Desean Watson  Why is he significant to the Bengals?  The Buffalo Bills and the Washington Redskins.  The Bills have the pick immediately after the Bengals and Watson could easily be the pick there.  The Bills need a QB badly after running Tyrod Taylor out, and they have a new coach.  The Redskins are facing the choice of making Kirk Cousins their franchise QB.  Rumor has it that they are likely to franchise tag him.  Obviously if they were sold on him they would have worked a long term deal out by now.  But, they would have to jump the Bills to get Watson, obviously.

Why would Redskins make a trade? Besides the aforementioned reasons, Watson would be a great fit in the quick read, 3 step west coast scheme Jay Gruden runs. Jay has to also love the running dynamic Watson brings, even if he utilizes it but rarely.  The Redskins also have 2 later 1st round picks and 8! picks in the last 4 rounds of the draft.  This gives them the flexibility of targeting players they want early, and also restocking the bottom half of the roster in the later rounds.  Also, the Redskins are projected to have close to $70 million in cap space!! This staggering cap space will allow them to fill key needs with solid free agents and open their draft.

So what? What do the Bengals get?  Potentially a lot.  Using the trade chart a trade consisting of Washington packaging their 1st of 2 1st round picks(17th), 2nd (49th) and 3rd(81st) to the Bengals for the Bengals 1st (9th), 4th (107th from the Bears), and 4th (112) picks results in a trade value of Redskins: 1545 to Bengals: 1500. A slightly favorable trade for the Bengals in raw points, but well within the "QB Premium" which usually inflates these QB based trades.

Why would the Bengals do any of this?  
1. Value. Moving McCarron now is a must.
2. The Bengals draft slot.

• The Bengals are slotted at 9. Their biggest needs are DE and Oline.  The 2 best DE in this draft are quite probably going to be off the board (Garrett and Barnett) and the best OT is the draft may not even be BPA at the time.  The likely BPAs are going to be 2 Safeties, 2 RBs, a LB, a WR, and a CB.  The Bengals love Iloka and just gave Shawn Williams a big contract, and they don't break contracts typically so I would rule out a safety.  They also have rarely drafted a LB in the 1st much less the top 10. Dalvin Cook could interest them, but just seems a total luxury without the required Oline. Mike Williams could be a true stud, but may not be BPA.  Taking the trade with the Redskins puts them into a good value spot.  At 17 there will most likely be 2 very good DEs that meet the Bengals fetish of long and lanky, Malik McDowell (DE/DT, Michigan State), and Taco Charleton (DE, Michigan), the maybe #1 LT prospect in Ryan Ramczyk (LT, Wisconsin), a very good coverage LB in Zach Cunningham (OLB, Vandy).  Plus they get the added bonus of 2 high picks later.

Draft picks would then be:
1st (17th)
2nd (41st)
2nd (49th)
3rd (67th)
3rd (73rd)
2 comp 4th round picks
5th (@156)
6th (193)
2 comp 6th round picks
7th (@ 230)  

That would easily take care of the top of the roster needs and also provide for a potential to restock the back end.

Anything that involves us trading down im out on.We need impact players not projects.we need to win now .If we move down in the first im gonna break shit

[*SHRacerX*]

I hope a lot of posters still click on this link, although many won't out of "not another Dalton thread" fear....

This is exactly the kind of off-season I am hoping for...get a lot of "nuts and bolts" picks. Sure, I hope they get a difference maker at RB or DE in the first, but they could still accomplish that while moving McCarron and leveraging their draft slot as you presented.

For all the responses that will say "No one will give us that much", I offer this:

You have seen teams give massive amounts of picks for the top QB in the draft. If that pick isn't selected early, and begins to slide, the value could even be HIGHER than if it was the #1 draft slot because of the rookie wage scale. They would get their QB for less money, but still hold his rights for the full 5 years. Look at the Bengals, 49ers, and Seahawks when they had lesser dollar QBs signed (for four years) that produced...two went to the Super Bowl and one went to 5 straight playoff appearances.

It isn't just Watson, either. When Trubisky and Kiser work out at the combine, some teams will fall in love with them. It wasn't long ago that Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, and Blaine Gabbert were all drafted in the first 16 picks of the first round....and that was AFTER Cam Newton.

One area where I stand my ground, though, is I don't want a 3rd and a 4th... I want their 2nd rounder for McCarron, and maybe I would give back a 6th for it(we have three of them), but I want a 2nd rounder.

[Southendbengal]

(01-14-2017, 11:24 AM)jason Wrote: I don't think there is an NFL fan base out there that is clamoring for AJ McCarron. I think some people will be very disappointed with the compensation the Bengals receive if they trade him.

Yeah I haven't see anything to confirm that anyone is seeing him as a must have QB to fix any immediate problems.

The only one I am not sure on is the 49ers. Whilst Chip was coach I would have said 100% no as he wasn't the type of QB Chip would want or need to run his offence. But depending on the new Head coach maybe they bring in someone who is an AJ fan.

Other than that I think I'm inclined to agree with you.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-14-2017, 01:26 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I love the thought behind this post. Great job.

I think a trade like this would be something many smart GM's would consider but Mike Brown wouldn't because it requires too many moving parts.

Agreed on both parts,

Nice post Burma, but MB would never go past my steelie for your striped shooter.

[TKUHL]

(01-14-2017, 02:54 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It wasn't just his entire draft..... It was his entire 1999 draft, his 2000 1st rounder, 2001 1st rounder, and 2002 2nd rounder.


...still can't believe it. Thanks for bringing it back up.  Lol  

Yea im still amazed that an offer this insane was turned down by a team that prides itself on "Building through the draft" with little to no FA action. How the F&%k do you turn something like that down. Amazing. I wouldnt be surprised if McCarron dosent even get traded.

[Derrick]

(01-14-2017, 01:51 AM)Burma Wrote: Surprise!  This is not an Andy Dalton thread!  :andy:

The Bengals are in a position this year in which 2 QBs could have significant value to other teams and the potential to bring the Bengals equally significant draft compensation.  So who are these mystery QBs?

QB 1: AJ McCarron   Not really a surprise here.  Trading AJ is a hot topic now, and for good reasons.  After reviewing the teams with needs for a QB and looking at their draft positioning and picks available 1 team has stood out as a good trading partner for AJ.  The Bears.

Why the Bears?  The Bears are picking in a slot in which there will be several franchise quality players available to them.  None of which appear to be a QB.  The sound thing for them to do is to take one of these players and look later for a QB.  Their draft slotting is high enough that their later round picks will have solid value to other teams.  Also, they are in the position of being able to bring back Alshon Jeffery and not having to reach for a WR with that first pick.  

So what? What do the Bengals get?  If the Bengals are able to negotiate a trade with the Bears, solid compensation would be the Bears 3rd (67th), and 4th (107th) round picks.

Now for the twist!

QB 2:  Desean Watson  Why is he significant to the Bengals?  The Buffalo Bills and the Washington Redskins.  The Bills have the pick immediately after the Bengals and Watson could easily be the pick there.  The Bills need a QB badly after running Tyrod Taylor out, and they have a new coach.  The Redskins are facing the choice of making Kirk Cousins their franchise QB.  Rumor has it that they are likely to franchise tag him.  Obviously if they were sold on him they would have worked a long term deal out by now.  But, they would have to jump the Bills to get Watson, obviously.

Why would Redskins make a trade? Besides the aforementioned reasons, Watson would be a great fit in the quick read, 3 step west coast scheme Jay Gruden runs. Jay has to also love the running dynamic Watson brings, even if he utilizes it but rarely.  The Redskins also have 2 later 1st round picks and 8! picks in the last 4 rounds of the draft.  This gives them the flexibility of targeting players they want early, and also restocking the bottom half of the roster in the later rounds.  Also, the Redskins are projected to have close to $70 million in cap space!! This staggering cap space will allow them to fill key needs with solid free agents and open their draft.

So what? What do the Bengals get?  Potentially a lot.  Using the trade chart a trade consisting of Washington packaging their 1st of 2 1st round picks(17th), 2nd (49th) and 3rd(81st) to the Bengals for the Bengals 1st (9th), 4th (107th from the Bears), and 4th (112) picks results in a trade value of Redskins: 1545 to Bengals: 1500. A slightly favorable trade for the Bengals in raw points, but well within the "QB Premium" which usually inflates these QB based trades.

Why would the Bengals do any of this?  
1. Value. Moving McCarron now is a must.
2. The Bengals draft slot.

• The Bengals are slotted at 9. Their biggest needs are DE and Oline.  The 2 best DE in this draft are quite probably going to be off the board (Garrett and Barnett) and the best OT is the draft may not even be BPA at the time.  The likely BPAs are going to be 2 Safeties, 2 RBs, a LB, a WR, and a CB.  The Bengals love Iloka and just gave Shawn Williams a big contract, and they don't break contracts typically so I would rule out a safety.  They also have rarely drafted a LB in the 1st much less the top 10. Dalvin Cook could interest them, but just seems a total luxury without the required Oline. Mike Williams could be a true stud, but may not be BPA.  Taking the trade with the Redskins puts them into a good value spot.  At 17 there will most likely be 2 very good DEs that meet the Bengals fetish of long and lanky, Malik McDowell (DE/DT, Michigan State), and Taco Charleton (DE, Michigan), the maybe #1 LT prospect in Ryan Ramczyk (LT, Wisconsin), a very good coverage LB in Zach Cunningham (OLB, Vandy).  Plus they get the added bonus of 2 high picks later.

Draft picks would then be:
1st (17th)
2nd (41st)
2nd (49th)
3rd (67th)
3rd (73rd)
2 comp 4th round picks
5th (@156)
6th (193)
2 comp 6th round picks
7th (@ 230)  

That would easily take care of the top of the roster needs and also provide for a potential to restock the back end.

Send this to Mikey and Tobin immediately via Certified USPS! They definitely need good advice.

[guyofthetiger]

I think the Bengals should trade Macaroni and take Watson as the new backup. It will take a year or so before Watson develops. He could replace Andy and be our QB of the future.

[Devils Advocate]

(01-14-2017, 05:50 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I think the Bengals should trade Macaroni and take Watson as the new backup. It will take a year or so before Watson develops. He could replace Andy and be our QB of the future.

Ridiculous.

Andy is the QB of the future.

[*Awful Llama*]

(01-14-2017, 04:57 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Yea im still amazed that an offer this insane was turned down by a team that prides itself on "Building through the draft" with little to no FA action. How the F&%k do you turn something like that down. Amazing. 

Couldn't pass up this guy: