Christian Westerman

[Jpoore]

(01-18-2017, 01:17 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Another bad call from Marvin Lewis. Like activating Peerman over WJ3. Boling played the majority of the year with a shoulder that was hurt. 

See if your young healthy guy can play? HEEEELLLLLL Nooo. Game experience is worthless in developing a player, stick with the guy who has a bad shoulder. 

I dont know if the initial injury caused the need for surgery. Or playing through injury caused it. 

Pretty crazy your starting guard has a bad shoulder the majority of the year and you cant get your hand selected draft pick one freaking snap.

Maybe that shows what they think of how poorly westerman is playing. I don't think the peerman decision was bad u think it was coincidence that our special teams got better?

[*ochocincos*]

(01-16-2017, 03:09 PM)bengals67 Wrote: The Steeler "found" the money to retain DeCastro and have a pro bowl center in Poouncy.

Guys with more football knowledge then me, please educate me- but

I notice how the Steelers O line does not allow penetration allowing Bell to take his time to pick the open spots.

I never see our O line do this

Am I seeing this correctly and if so why can the Steelers line do this while ours cannot.

Here are the top 10 cap space occupants on the Steelers in 2016:
Roethlisberger, QB - $24 mill
Timmons, ILB - $15 mill
Brown, WR - $11.8 mill
Pouncey, C - $10.5 mill
DeCastro, RG - $5.2 mill
Gilbert, RT - $4 mill
Mitchell, DB - $4 mill
Moats, OLB - $3 mill
Jones, OLB - $2.7 mill
Shazier, ILB - $2.5 mill
http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers/

Notice that their top 2 OL make about a combined $16 mill, but their highest OT only makes $4 mill. Their LT, Villanueva, only costs $525k against the cap. He's been a steal for them.
Ramon Foster, their LG, only costs $2.4 mill. Total cost for their OL is about $23 mill. It's also worth noting that Bell and DeAngelo Williams combined were cheaper than Bernard.

The Bengals also have their top two OL making about $16 mill (Whitworth and Zeitler both at $8 mill). Boling counted $4.7 mill against the cap (about the same as Gilbert for PIT). Ogbuehi counted $2 mill against the cap, and Bodine counted $714k against the cap. Total cost for Bengals top 5 OL is about $23.5 mill.

The bottom line though is that even the Steelers can only afford to pay high prices for two OL. It just happens their top two OL are C and RG, whereas most teams pay a ton for an OT.

For 2017, the Steelers are paying Pouncey, DeCastro, Foster, and Gilbert a total of about $33 mill. Villanueva becomes a FA after the 2016 postseason. Le'Veon Bell also becomes a FA. They likely will, once again, have to play doctor with restructuring or deals or cut some players because they can't afford to pay that entire OL plus Brown, Bell, and Ben. If they do, their defense will greatly suffer.

So it seems like the good strategy is to pay two OL very well ($15-20 mill combined), the third around $4-5 mill, and the remaining OL should all be lower than $3 mill each. The Bengals can still accomplish that if they re-sign Whit and Zeitler, as Boling still falls in that $4-5 mill range. The Bengals just need better performance out of their cheaper players like the Steelers got this past year.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(01-18-2017, 02:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Here are the top 10 cap space occupants on the Steelers in 2016:
Roethlisberger, QB - $24 mill
Timmons, ILB - $15 mill
Brown, WR - $11.8 mill
Pouncey, C - $10.5 mill
DeCastro, RG - $5.2 mill
Gilbert, RT - $4 mill
Mitchell, DB - $4 mill
Moats, OLB - $3 mill
Jones, OLB - $2.7 mill
Shazier, ILB - $2.5 mill
http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers/

Notice that their top 2 OL make about a combined $16 mill, but their highest OT only makes $4 mill. Their LT, Villanueva, only costs $525k against the cap. He's been a steal for them.
Ramon Foster, their LG, only costs $2.4 mill. Total cost for their OL is about $23 mill. It's also worth noting that Bell and DeAngelo Williams combined were cheaper than Bernard.

The Bengals also have their top two OL making about $16 mill (Whitworth and Zeitler both at $8 mill). Boling counted $4.7 mill against the cap (about the same as Gilbert for PIT). Ogbuehi counted $2 mill against the cap, and Bodine counted $714k against the cap. Total cost for Bengals top 5 OL is about $23.5 mill.

The bottom line though is that even the Steelers can only afford to pay high prices for two OL. It just happens their top two OL are C and RG, whereas most teams pay a ton for an OT.

For 2017, the Steelers are paying Pouncey, DeCastro, Foster, and Gilbert a total of about $33 mill. Villanueva becomes a FA after the 2016 postseason. Le'Veon Bell also becomes a FA. They likely will, once again, have to play doctor with restructuring or deals or cut some players because they can't afford to pay that entire OL plus Brown, Bell, and Ben. If they do, their defense will greatly suffer.

So it seems like the good strategy is to pay two OL very well ($15-20 mill combined), the third around $4-5 mill, and the remaining OL should all be lower than $3 mill each. The Bengals can still accomplish that if they re-sign Whit and Zeitler, as Boling still falls in that $4-5 mill range. The Bengals just need better performance out of their cheaper players like the Steelers got this past year.

Is it me, or does it seem like they may be in big trouble with the cap next year? They have 39 players signed for 2017 and still only $42m under the cap  with a big payday owed to Bell.

[Joelist]

I wouldn't feel comfortable just plugging Westerman in due to lack of snaps.

Now cutting Bodine for TJ Johnson I might consider. Johnson actually looked competent when they benched Bodine and put him in for some plays - of course then Piano Man probably cried and Bodine came back in and the troubles at Center promptly restarted.

[BengalFanInNJ]

Cutting Adam Jones and Rey Maualuga after June 1st saves the Bengals $11.2m. Hell, add Vinnie Rey to this and it's another $3.25M as well.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-18-2017, 07:49 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Cutting Adam Jones and Rey Maualuga after June 1st saves the Bengals $11.2m. Hell, add Vinnie Rey to this and it's another $3.25M as well.

no way im letting go of Rey .. with Rey and Dansby probably gone and Burifict always a concern.. Rey is too valuable plus he continues to be a good steady versatile player

[Derrick]

(01-18-2017, 01:17 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Another bad call from Marvin Lewis. Like activating Peerman over WJ3. Boling played the majority of the year with a shoulder that was hurt. 

See if your young healthy guy can play? HEEEELLLLLL Nooo. Game experience is worthless in developing a player, stick with the guy who has a bad shoulder. 

I dont know if the initial injury caused the need for surgery. Or playing through injury caused it. 

Pretty crazy your starting guard has a bad shoulder the majority of the year and you cant get your hand selected draft pick one freaking snap.

This adds to my disgust for this franchise. I am trying to prepare myself to give up on them. Not sure I can though. Darn me!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-18-2017, 02:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What Nati here said. Westerman you think would of played ahead of an UDFA Center in TJ Johnson.

Probably should of been started earlier when the shoulder injury occured to Boling.

TJ played well against the Ravens i will give him that, but still, Westerman was our pick for the future
and doesn't get a snap in these meaningless games? This is terrible decisions all the way around and
the biggest reason why our team could be in trouble still on Offense.

Getting mixed thoughts here from the FO and the analysts. Hope they are planning bring back Zeitler.

Would of been different if they played Westerman and he looked good but we don't know what he will
play like now. We have no idea and neither do the coaches, similar to Og the year before we started
him at RT and flushed our season down the toilet.

Must reiterate my post buried at the bottom of the last page...

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2017, 07:27 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Is it me, or does it seem like they may be in big trouble with the cap next year? They have 39 players signed for 2017 and still only $42m under the cap  with a big payday owed to Bell.

They always seem like they are in big trouble with the cap nearly every year. But they always restructure some deals to fit it in.
The Bengals, meanwhile, never seem to get deals restructured.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2017, 10:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Must reiterate my post buried at the bottom of the last page...

I have to think it's because TJ Johnson was entering FA whereas Westerman still has 3 more years left. The Bengals likely wanted to see if Johnson was worth a damn.

Btw, it should be pointed out that Westerman was considered one of the best (if not the best) pass blocking guards in the draft last year. His run blocking, however, supposedly needs work.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-profile-christian-westerman-g-arizona-state/

I would have given Westerman a shot over TJ Johnson, but I also have no faith TJ Johnson could ever emerge as a decent starter. Serviceable backup at best.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-19-2017, 10:45 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I have to think it's because TJ Johnson was entering FA whereas Westerman still has 3 more years left. The Bengals likely wanted to see if Johnson was worth a damn.

Btw, it should be pointed out that Westerman was considered one of the best (if not the best) pass blocking guards in the draft last year. His run blocking, however, supposedly needs work.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-profile-christian-westerman-g-arizona-state/

I would have given Westerman a shot over TJ Johnson, but I also have no faith TJ Johnson could ever emerge as a decent starter. Serviceable backup at best.

Nice response. This makes atleast some sense.

So true on TJ, if he couldn't beat out Bodine he is not what we need. TJ has looked worse in Preseason than
Bodine and TJ was going against backup's and players that get cut. I actually think adding a good Center and
keeping Bodine as a backup G/C would be fine with me. He is just not a starter.

Westerman is strong though and should only get stronger this Offseason. He could become a good run blocker.
Heard lots of scouting reports say this and he was effective as a run blocker a lot in college no matter what
PFF says who i don't put much stock in.

[SYLVIA]

When given a chance Westerman won't let the team down, he has shown up at every level so far.