Tom Brady and Andy Dalton against Texans

[BengalChris]

(01-15-2017, 04:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sir Tom Brady- 18/38 for 287 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs

Andy Dalton- 28/41 for 268 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Dalton did this against the #1 defense in the NFL in their stadium, with no AJ, no Eifert, starting Cody Core for his first start in his career, and Jeremy Hill getting injured.  And don't act like the game wasn't important to the Texans.  Their divisional championship was on the line.  

Just saying.    :andy:

I can't recall a single good game Dalton has had against Houston.

[Brownshoe]

(01-19-2017, 12:54 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I can't recall a single good game Dalton has had against Houston.

Dalton didn't play bad against them last year. His receivers played like crap though. I think Eifert by himself had 4 drops that hit him right on his numbers. Green had a couple too and a fumble. He played alright from what I can remember in 2014 too.

[bengalsturntup926]

I don't really pay attention to stats. Like I said, Ryan tannahill can get stats, romo can get stats. What I look for is skill and talent, and how they do in big moments. Brady is tall, a genius of a qb who works with a genius coach. He can't run good, but he's a great pocket passer, he can see over the line with ease, he can go through his progressions, he can look off a defender and pump fake, he can side step and manuver in the pocket. And he has much respect in the league, and he will argue calls, even bill will. Dalton rarely does and doesn't have the respect, and our coach never argues a call. Tom Brady will even get fired up, I admire that, I seen some of that in dalton 2015,but that dissapeared.

On the other hand any slight of pressure and dalton is running for his life, mostly with his head down, or going to his right, cutting off half the field. I can go on and on about dalton. He's not garbage, but I don't think he's a guy who can go far, unless you have superior run game and defense. Because he's just not a good pocket passer. He needs space and good talent around him.

[bengalsturntup926]

Also I'm sure the pats can pick up Gresham and he'd look like a star. Dillon looked like he was done with, and revived his career in new England. Chad Johnson is the exception. But Brady had a lot of other weapons so they didn't really even look at Chad, he was like a james wright on the pats.

[BengalChris]

(01-19-2017, 02:42 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Dalton didn't play bad against them last year. His receivers played like crap though. I think Eifert by himself had 4 drops that hit him right on his numbers. Green had a couple too and a fumble. He played alright from what I can remember in 2014 too.

I'm not throwing any dig at Dalton. Just pointing out that Houston isn't a team he's had much success against.

While Dalton's and Brady's numbers were similar against Houston this year, the Bengals lost 10-12 while the Patriots won 34-16.

The difference between the two are that one has an offense that executes while the other one doesn't. We can't even count on a kicker making a 40 yard FG, so even if the offense gets close, it can easily come away with 0. Belichick would never put up with that. Marv, on the other hand, ... well ... let's just say that Marv isn't quite on the same planet.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-20-2017, 02:18 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I'm not throwing any dig at Dalton. Just pointing out that Houston isn't a team he's had much success against.

While Dalton's and Brady's numbers were similar against Houston this year, the Bengals lost 10-12 while the Patriots won 34-16.

The difference between the two are that one has an offense that executes while the other one doesn't. We can't even count on a kicker making a 40 yard FG, so even if the offense gets close, it can easily come away with 0. Belichick would never put up with that. Marv, on the other hand, ... well ... let's just say that Marv isn't quite on the same planet.

Can't disagree with anything here. Dalton has had a couple decent games against them while struggling in a few others. I think it's safe to say that the Texans probably aren't his favorite team to face. I also agree that it's not particularly fair to hang the 10 point failure on Andy. Zamp's offense has struggled in the RZ and on 3rd downs, and that's not typical of Dalton...hence why I blame Zampese. Plus how did we do running the football in that game? Our offense was one dimensional all year long.

Everything was pretty much on Andy to put up points. Sometimes he was able make it happen on his own, which IMO kept this team from being 2-14. The offense around Andy was that bad.

[Rhinocero23]

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/14/14270322/ken-zampese-happy-with-andy-dalton-wants-more

"Andy Dalton had a good season in 2016, but Ken Zampese wants more from his franchise quarterback"
How many times do you think Brady's OC has made a statement like this?

"Zampese even seemed to suggest Dalton will need to be more of a risk-taker going forward. Avoiding turnovers is nice, but you need to throw touchdowns, too, and make them count."

“We were very low on turnovers, which is great. But if you don’t score enough it doesn’t make that much difference,” Zampese said. “It’s about scoring and we didn’t. The low turnovers are fantastic, but you have to do both and we didn’t. There were some positives to be taken away in the way he produced, certainly.

“But we didn’t win. Quarterbacks are here to win and we didn’t win enough. There are some different things that went well for him and for us in the passing game and you appreciate those things, but we need more,” Zampese said.

Of course Mediocre Marv had this to say..."Marvin Lewis rightfully called 2016 Dalton’s best season as a pro". So for those of you that agree with Mediocre Marv's assessment of Dalton's season...does that make your expectation mediocre too?

Zampese may not win my vote for OC of the year but he has the balls to tell his QB...you played safe and it did not get us wins. I like his message a lot better than MM's!

Do you think the Bengals OC believes Dalton and Brady are equal QB's like a few on here do...lol smfh!

[Jpoore]

(01-22-2017, 01:46 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/14/14270322/ken-zampese-happy-with-andy-dalton-wants-more

"Andy Dalton had a good season in 2016, but Ken Zampese wants more from his franchise quarterback"
How many times do you think Brady's OC has made a statement like this?

"Zampese even seemed to suggest Dalton will need to be more of a risk-taker going forward. Avoiding turnovers is nice, but you need to throw touchdowns, too, and make them count."

“We were very low on turnovers, which is great. But if you don’t score enough it doesn’t make that much difference,” Zampese said. “It’s about scoring and we didn’t. The low turnovers are fantastic, but you have to do both and we didn’t. There were some positives to be taken away in the way he produced, certainly.

“But we didn’t win. Quarterbacks are here to win and we didn’t win enough. There are some different things that went well for him and for us in the passing game and you appreciate those things, but we need more,” Zampese said.

Of course Mediocre Marv had this to say..."Marvin Lewis rightfully called 2016 Dalton’s best season as a pro". So for those of you that agree with Mediocre Marv's assessment of Dalton's season...does that make your expectation mediocre too?

Zampese may not win my vote for OC of the year but he has the balls to tell his QB...you played safe and it did not get us wins. I like his message a lot better than MM's!

Do you think the Bengals OC believes Dalton and Brady are equal QB's like a few on here do...lol smfh!

Well in Andy defense he was missing his 2 most familiar and best weapons for all but 2 games... Couldn't really tKe chances if u don't have familiarity with ur receivers like he can with aj 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-22-2017, 01:46 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote:  

Do you think the Bengals OC believes Dalton and Brady are equal QB's like a few on here do...lol smfh!

Quotes please for any fan on here that stated that Dalton and Brady are equal QBs.  There are a few, huh?  This should be interesting.  

Maybe after you realize you are sensationalizing what people are trying to convey to an extreme, and making yourself look like a fool in the process, you will start reading posts thoroughly before going off like this.  

[Rhinocero23]

(01-15-2017, 04:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sir Tom Brady- 18/38 for 287 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs

Andy Dalton- 28/41 for 268 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Dalton did this against the #1 defense in the NFL in their stadium, with no AJ, no Eifert, starting Cody Core for his first start in his career, and Jeremy Hill getting injured.  And don't act like the game wasn't important to the Texans.  Their divisional championship was on the line.  

Just saying.    :andy:

(01-22-2017, 12:28 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Quotes please for any fan on here that stated that Dalton and Brady are equal QBs.  There are a few, huh?  This should be interesting.  

Maybe after you realize you are sensationalizing what people are trying to convey to an extreme, and making yourself look like a fool in the process, you will start reading posts thoroughly before going off like this.  

So what were Just Saying here???

The absolute stunner here is you think someone other than you looks like the fool.

How about addressing the fact of the OC's statements? Andy does not do enough to help the team win!!!

Do you agree then that Andy Dalton is not anywhere near Tom Brady's level regardless of the all excuses presented like surrounding personel/injuries, coaching and front office? We can debate about the other top tier Qb's later.

[McC]

(01-22-2017, 01:46 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/14/14270322/ken-zampese-happy-with-andy-dalton-wants-more

"Andy Dalton had a good season in 2016, but Ken Zampese wants more from his franchise quarterback"
How many times do you think Brady's OC has made a statement like this?

"Zampese even seemed to suggest Dalton will need to be more of a risk-taker going forward. Avoiding turnovers is nice, but you need to throw touchdowns, too, and make them count."

“We were very low on turnovers, which is great. But if you don’t score enough it doesn’t make that much difference,” Zampese said. “It’s about scoring and we didn’t. The low turnovers are fantastic, but you have to do both and we didn’t. There were some positives to be taken away in the way he produced, certainly.

“But we didn’t win. Quarterbacks are here to win and we didn’t win enough. There are some different things that went well for him and for us in the passing game and you appreciate those things, but we need more,” Zampese said.

Of course Mediocre Marv had this to say..."Marvin Lewis rightfully called 2016 Dalton’s best season as a pro". So for those of you that agree with Mediocre Marv's assessment of Dalton's season...does that make your expectation mediocre too?

Zampese may not win my vote for OC of the year but he has the balls to tell his QB...you played safe and it did not get us wins. I like his message a lot better than MM's!

Do you think the Bengals OC believes Dalton and Brady are equal QB's like a few on here do...lol smfh!

Not gonna get into the whole Dalton debate.  But I will say that as bad as the season was, it wouldn't have been nearly that good without Andy.  He was the team MVP, hands down.  He played with great courage from the first game to the last.  And if he got skittish at times, who the hell could blame him?

As to Zampese, he'd better be pointing the finger at the mirror.

[Rhinocero23]

(01-22-2017, 01:46 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/14/14270322/ken-zampese-happy-with-andy-dalton-wants-more

"Andy Dalton had a good season in 2016, but Ken Zampese wants more from his franchise quarterback"
How many times do you think Brady's OC has made a statement like this?

"Zampese even seemed to suggest Dalton will need to be more of a risk-taker going forward. Avoiding turnovers is nice, but you need to throw touchdowns, too, and make them count."

“We were very low on turnovers, which is great. But if you don’t score enough it doesn’t make that much difference,” Zampese said. “It’s about scoring and we didn’t. The low turnovers are fantastic, but you have to do both and we didn’t. There were some positives to be taken away in the way he produced, certainly.

“But we didn’t win. Quarterbacks are here to win and we didn’t win enough. There are some different things that went well for him and for us in the passing game and you appreciate those things, but we need more,” Zampese said.

Of course Mediocre Marv had this to say..."Marvin Lewis rightfully called 2016 Dalton’s best season as a pro". So for those of you that agree with Mediocre Marv's assessment of Dalton's season...does that make your expectation mediocre too?

Zampese may not win my vote for OC of the year but he has the balls to tell his QB...you played safe and it did not get us wins. I like his message a lot better than MM's!

Do you think the Bengals OC believes Dalton and Brady are equal QB's like a few on here do...lol smfh!

(01-22-2017, 05:09 PM)McC Wrote: Not gonna get into the whole Dalton debate.  But I will say that as bad as the season was, it wouldn't have been nearly that good without Andy.  He was the team MVP, hands down.  He played with great courage from the first game to the last.  And if he got skittish at times, who the hell could blame him?

As to Zampese, he'd better be pointing the finger at the mirror.

So you support Mediocre Marvs assessment? It's not a ridiculous position...I do find it interesting the difference between the HC's assessment and the OC's. 

[*bfine32*]

Anybody still want to do this?

[Shake n Blake]

Dalton is closer to Brady than Mediocre Marv is to Belichick.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-22-2017, 03:48 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: So what were Just Saying here???

The absolute stunner here is you think someone other than you looks like the fool.

How about addressing the fact of the OC's statements? Andy does not do enough to help the team win!!!

Do you agree then that Andy Dalton is not anywhere near Tom Brady's level regardless of the all excuses presented like surrounding personel/injuries, coaching and front office? We can debate about the other top tier Qb's later.

So my OP is the "few around here" that believe they are equals?  I even used a sarcastic emoji to make my point, which was that the immortal Brady struggled against a really good defense and he had most of his weapons.  

Nice stretch, though...

And, no, I do NOT agree that Dalton is "not anywhere near Tom Brady's level regardless of all the excuses presented like surrounding personnel/injuries, coaching and front office".  I think Dalton, at the same point of his career as Brady, is not his equal but I think statements like they don't belong in the same sentence is ludicrous.  

I showed he has similar numbers.  People forget that Brady was a glorified game manager early in his career and they also forget what Dalton was on pace to do last year.  The needle has pointed up every year with Dalton.  He has not "peaked", but you can keep dismissing what he has accomplished because his team has not performed as well as Brady's.

I'm done with this discussion, it's boring, but I will leave you with this:  Does Aaron Rogers suck and not deserve to be spoken in the same sentance as Brady after yesterday?  His team struggled, and he lost.  Without a prior Super Bowl victory in all his years, does Rogers suck?  No, he has lacked the Pats defense, weapons, and coaching/front office.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-22-2017, 11:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Anybody still want to do this?

I'll say one thing.....the day that Piano Man and his protege Bodine give Dalton 6-7 seconds to find receivers that are wide open, is the day we can make a fair assessment. :andy:

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-22-2017, 03:48 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: So what were Just Saying here???

The absolute stunner here is you think someone other than you looks like the fool.

How about addressing the fact of the OC's statements? Andy does not do enough to help the team win!!!

Do you agree then that Andy Dalton is not anywhere near Tom Brady's level regardless of the all excuses presented like surrounding personel/injuries, coaching and front office? We can debate about the other top tier Qb's later.

How about the OC and the O line coach take a little blame for the absolute shit show they put on themselves this year?  Dalton sure looked better under Hue Jackson and Jay Gruden.  Not only is Zampese a turd of coach that has to have his QBs go seek secondary help to get better as a QB coach, he's a buck passer.  Not surprising, there's never any accountability with this staff and FO.

AS for Brady, I don't know many that are in his league, then again, I don't see many o lines absolutely neutralizing Pitt's pass rush like that either.  On the TD to Hogan in the back of the end zone, I literally counted 6 seconds, it might have been more.  I don't remember many times that any of our QBs have had that kind of time on many passes, let alone consistently throughout the course of the game.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-23-2017, 10:10 AM)Wyche Wrote: I'll say one thing.....the day that Piano Man and his protege Bodine give Dalton 6-7 seconds to find receivers that are wide open, is the day we can make a fair assessment. :andy:

You obviously don't know football....Brady catches every pass he throws, creates the separation by designing a creative offensive scheme, and force-chokes the defensive line so they fall to the ground gasping for air.  If Brady can do all that, Dalton should be able to as well.

 - Though I didn't think I really needed it, some would run and yell "X  is trying to pick a fight with Wyche!"

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-23-2017, 11:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You obviously don't know football....Brady catches every pass he throws, creates the separation by designing a creative offensive scheme, and force-chokes the defensive line so they fall to the ground gasping for air.  If Brady can do all that, Dalton should be able to as well.

 - Though I didn't think I really needed it, some would run and yell "X  is trying to pick a fight with Wyche!"

LOL.  The schemes are very creative and sound, but when you afford your QB that kind of time consistently throughout the entire game, people are going to get open.  They played one helluva game up front, Brady executed, and receivers and backs stepped up and made the plays.  Just a well oiled machine all around.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-23-2017, 11:53 AM)Wyche Wrote: LOL.  The schemes are very creative and sound, but when you afford your QB that kind of time consistently throughout the entire game, people are going to get open.  They played one helluva game up front, Brady executed, and receivers and backs stepped up and made the plays.  Just a well oiled machine all around.

Yep, and I couldn't stop laughing when I saw steelers and piggy complaining to the refs about holding....oh, NOW it is a penalty!  I enjoyed last night so much...