DEs drafted during Marvin's tenure

[Jpoore]

(01-20-2017, 09:28 PM)Burma Wrote: Which is why I was getting frustrated as I reviewed the Bengals draft history at DE.  They keep passing over productive 6'3, 6'4 guys in search of their sack Giraffe.

Well in Dunlap's case works really well Batt's down a lot of balls but I get what ur saying. If any year there was a year to draft a pass rusher it's this year. U could get a lot of first round talent dlineman all the way to in the early third. Just to name a few.... Thomas, Walker, Garrett, Allen, charton, Barnett, Harris, smoot, wormley, Williams, McKinley, McDowell, kpassagnon, price, 

[Hammerstripes]

I don't think the height is the reason that we draft these guys - it's more the weight. The team has used the 4-3 and the nickel as their base defense. You can't really roll out defensive ends that weight 250-260 when you play 4 down lineman.

[Bryan]

So of all the DEs we've drafted Dunlap has been the only good one? And Johnson has been solid? And the others have helped occasionally? Got it.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-21-2017, 02:17 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I don't think the height is the reason that we draft these guys - it's more the weight.  The team has used the 4-3 and the nickel as their base defense.  You can't really roll out defensive ends that weight 250-260 when you play 4 down lineman.

There is a lot of truth to this...I remember pimping Brandon Graham when he was coming out of college and the Bengals thought he would wear out with the big tackles leaning on him all the time.  We could have Clarke play RDE as base, and have the speedier guy rotating in on 2nd and 3rd and long.  

I have never understood the Bengal's obsession with the 98% of downs played badge of honor.  To me, it makes little to no sense.  They clearly take plays off and they aren't at their best at the end of the game.  I am always glad when I see Geno get a series off...I think it makes him that much more effective when he is in there, and with guys like Hardison, that is how he will get more opportunities.  

[Derrick]

(01-20-2017, 10:03 AM)Au165 Wrote: I think Clarke is actually a capable player. I'd like to see him get starting snaps next year. I would still like to add another end, but don't think it needs to be a guy taking a majority of snaps day 1. We could work him in as a situational rusher.

I am inclined to think the Bengals either need to draft a DE ready to play balls to the wall on day one, or play Clarke and company more. Their strategy this past season was pathetic.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Dunlap is the only really special player we have drafted at End. We hurt ourselves by even considering height.

Get the best pass rusher period, regardless of height. Wanting Johnathan Allen or Solomon Thomas in the first.

[kacymcbryant18]

(01-20-2017, 12:36 AM)Burma Wrote: Here’s a quick breakdown of the DEs that Marvin has drafted during his tenure here.  I got interested in this when I was reviewing the DE prospects in this draft.  Why does the team have a fetish for 6’6” 280lbs DEs and pass over smaller DEs that have had great college production.  Does the “System” require these lanky DEs? Whose “system” is it?

In Marvin’s first 4 drafts he selected 5 DEs all near the conventional 6’3” 275lb range. After that the smallest DE drafted was 6’5”.  What brought about this change?  There were a couple of things that came up when I was looking into this.

In 2004 Ben Roethlisberger came into the league. Did the Bengals start drafting large DEs capable of bringing down Ben at the expense of smaller, better pass rushers?  

In 2005 Paul Guenther came on as the Bengals LB coach.  Was part of his “philosophy” as a LB coach getting these long DE that could get into the passing lanes to help out a linebacker core that had, and has, historically struggled in coverage? Since Guenther has been here only 1 DE under 6’5” has been drafted.

Regardless of what the reason is, it is clear that the Bengals struggle mightily to draft productive DEs.  Perhaps they need to invest in a position specific draft advisor, someone with a much better eye for pass rushers.

2003:
7th (259) Elton Patterson, 6’2” 270lbs. Central Florida.  2 seasons, 2 games played, 0 sacks, 1 tackle

2004:
4th (117) Robert Geathers, 6’3” 275lbs.  Georgia.  11 seasons, 152 games played, 34 sacks, 183 tackles,

2005:
1st (17) David Pollack, 6’2” 255lbs.  Georgia. 2 seasons, 16 games played, 4.5 sacks, 22 tackles
7th (233) Jonathan Fanene, 6’4” 285lbs.  Utah. 7 seasons, 71 games played, 13.5 sacks, 66 tackles

2006
3rd (91) Frostee Rucker, 6’3” 280lbs.  USC.  5 seasons, 53 games played, 7 sacks, 62 tackles

2007
None

2008
7th (244) Angelo Craig, 6’5” 245lbs. Cincinnati.  No games played.  No Stats.


2009
3rd (90) Michael Johnson, 6’7” 280lbs.  Georgia Tech.  7 seasons, 111 games played, 35 sacks, 195 tackles

2010
2nd (54) Carlos Dunlap, 6’6” 280lbs.  Florida.  7 seasons, 102 games played, 57 sacks, 214 tackles

2011
None

2012
None

2013
2nd (53) Margus Hunt, 6’8” 275lbs.  SMU.   4 seasons, 44 games played. 1.5 sacks 14 tackles

2014
3rd (88) Will Clarke, 6’6” 271lbs.  West Virginia. 3 seasons, 35 games played. 4.5 sacks, 15 tackles

2015
None

2016
None


Bonus fun fact for making it this far!

Carlos Dunlap:  102 games played, 57 sacks.  .56 sacks per game
All 9 other DEs drafted since 2003: 484 games played, 100 sacks.  .21 sacks per game

They've brought in a small pass rushing DE before.  It just failed miserably and it scared them away apparently. You forgot about Dontay Moch in 2011.  Obviously he was projected to be a Linebacker like most small college DEs are but he was a smaller pass rusher nonetheless.

[Burma]

(01-22-2017, 06:52 PM)kacymcbryant18 Wrote: They've brought in a small pass rushing DE before.  It just failed miserably and it scared them away apparently. You forgot about Dontay Moch in 2011.  Obviously he was projected to be a Linebacker like most small college DEs are but he was a smaller pass rusher nonetheless.

I didn't include him because he was not drafted to be a DE. he was drafted as a rush linebacker, which is not what this thread was about.

Quote:highly regarded playmaker out of Nevada in 2011, former third-round Cincinnati draft choice gets another shot with Bengals in ’14 ... Acquired by Cincinnati on waivers after spending 2013 with Arizona ... Played in only one game for Bengals from 2011-12, held back by injuries and migraines ... Played in four games last season for Cardinals, after being signed from Arizona practice squad ... Worked at LB in his first two Bengals seasons, but has been moved by coaches to DE ... Fastest LB selected in ’11 draft, 

http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/dontay-moch/e9d1f1b8-9b58-481c-822f-6fc47d9e14ce/

He got released when they tried to convert him to a DE.