If You Want REAL Change...

[Fan_in_Kettering]

...let's bust up this roster and bring in some players who can win in the postseason. Think outside the box! Dream big! Make YUGE moves! The Cincinnati Bengals are going to have to expand far beyond their comfort zone to get to the Super Bowl. Right now the Front Office is acting like the Chinese Politburo, making an endless string of five year plans instead of making the big splash impact moves the team has needed to make since George Bush 41 was president.

Only one quarterback in Marvin Lewis' tenure ever held a lead in a playoff game in the fourth quarter: AJ McCarron. Why not send Andy Dalton* to San Francisco or Chicago for a butt load of picks, and use the money saved to load up the offensive line with brutal physicality, talent, and so much intelligence not even Paul Alexander could screw them up. Not only could Jeremy Hill run behind such a line, an octogenarian with a walker could score from three yards out.

Cut Pacman Jones with his legal problems and his big salary! Use that money to lock down Dre Kirkpatrick, draft Malik Hooker, and pay him a lot of money to provide over the top coverage well into Tom Brady's retirement years. Get Domata Peko on the sideline, get a big, mean defensive tackle to play next to Geno Atkins, and get some linebackers worthy to suit up next to Vontaze Burfict.





*I think the world of Andy Dalton. I don't ever want him to leave, but if....

[Hammerstripes]

I've wrestled with the idea of trying to move Dalton and move forward with AJ.

There's a couple problems though:

1. I'm not sure we would get more than a late first/second for Dalton.
2. AJ is on his rookie deal for only 1 more year. If he plays up to the level you would hope, he's going to have a $20 million contract and we really won't have any more cap space to add players than we would with Dalton.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-24-2017, 11:50 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I've wrestled with the idea of trying to move Dalton and move forward with AJ.

There's a couple problems though:

1. I'm not sure we would get more than a late first/second for Dalton.
2. AJ is on his rookie deal for only 1 more year. If he plays up to the level you would hope, he's going to have a $20 million contract and we really won't have any more cap space to add players than we would with Dalton.

Without the best line in football, it won't matter who is quarterback. We all need to remember this as long as we are fans of this team.

[THE PISTONS]

That's risky. I don't see McCarron being a Top 10 QB.

I wonder what the value Dalton would have...

[Hammerstripes]

(01-24-2017, 11:52 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Without the best line in football, it won't matter who is quarterback. We all need to remember this as long as we are fans of this team.

Completely agree.  It's too bad this wasn't a better year for OTs in the draft.

At this point, I am in favor of cutting the following guys to free up some $$:

Pac Man - I love the guy, but this last outburst comes at a bad time.  Frees up over $6 million
Rey M - I don't mind him, but when you are in nickel over 50% of the time and he doesn't see the field, is he really worth $4 million?
Peko - Wouldn't mind him back on a vet minimum deal.

Those moves (along with the $47 million would put us almost at $60 million in cap space) would make it pretty easy to sign all the guys we need back.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-25-2017, 12:03 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's risky. I don't see McCarron being a Top 10 QB.

Behind the best offensive lines in football, look at what Dak Prescott and Jacoby Brissett accomplished. Just sayin' ....

[THE PISTONS]

(01-25-2017, 12:05 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Behind the best offensive lines in football, look at what Dak Prescott and Jacoby Brissett accomplished.  Just sayin' ....

We're really far away from having a great offensive line. If you gave the Bengals 3 1st Round picks...I doubt they'd have a dominant line next year.

[Yojimbo]

Just have to out live Mike Brown to see real change.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-25-2017, 12:08 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We're really far away from having a great offensive line. If you gave the Bengals 3 1st Round picks...I doubt they'd have a dominant line next year.

That's why Cincinnati has to also look at something they generally avoid: Free agency.

[HarleyDog]

(01-25-2017, 12:10 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That's why Cincinnati has to also look at something they generally avoid: Free agency.

Very true but we suck so bad at free agency and not sure why? Maybe players come here from different teams and the coaching just isn't there?

[Hammerstripes]

(01-25-2017, 12:43 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Very true but we suck so bad at free agency and not sure why? Maybe players come here from different teams and the coaching just isn't there?

I wouldn't say that we suck, we just don't put any effort into signing the first and second wave guys.

When you wait until the vets are cut to sign people, you are basically taking people off the scrap heap.  It's cheap and it works if you find a good system fit, but it also limits the options tremendously.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-25-2017, 12:43 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Very true but we suck so bad at free agency and not sure why? Maybe players come here from different teams and the coaching just isn't there?

That's totally accurate. Look at Karlos Dansby: A beast as a Cardinal, okey-dokey as a Dolphin, a beast as a Cardinal again, and average as a Brown. As a Bengal, uh, I'm not sure yet.

Then look at Brandon LaFell. He was so solidly coached by Bill Belichick that his good habits formed by excellent training stayed with him in Cincinnati.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-25-2017, 12:50 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That's totally accurate.  Look at Karlos Dansby: A beast as a Cardinal, okey-dokey as a Dolphin, a beast as a Cardinal again, and average as a Brown.  As a Bengal, uh, I'm not sure yet.

Then look at Brandon LaFell.  He was so solidly coached by Bill Belichick that his good habits formed by excellent training stayed with him in Cincinnati.

I think Dansby's age started to catch up to him.

[*wildcats forever*]

(01-24-2017, 11:46 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...let's bust up this roster and bring in some players who can win in the postseason.  Think outside the box! Dream big! Make YUGE moves!  The Cincinnati Bengals are going to have to expand far beyond their comfort zone to get to the Super Bowl.  Right now the Front Office is acting like the Chinese Politburo, making an endless string of five year plans instead of making the big splash impact moves the team has needed to make since George Bush 41 was president.

Only one quarterback in Marvin Lewis' tenure ever held a lead in a playoff game in the fourth quarter: AJ McCarron.  Why not send Andy Dalton* to San Francisco or Chicago for a butt load of picks, and use the money saved to load up the offensive line with brutal physicality, talent, and so much intelligence not even Paul Alexander could screw them up.  Not only could Jeremy Hill run behind such a line, an octogenarian with a walker could score from three yards out.

Cut Pacman Jones with his legal problems and his big salary!  Use that money to lock down Dre Kirkpatrick, draft Malik Hooker, and pay him a lot of money to provide over the top coverage well into Tom Brady's retirement years.  Get Domata Peko on the sideline, get a big, mean defensive tackle to play next to Geno Atkins, and get some linebackers worthy to suit up next to Vontaze Burfict.





*I think the world of Andy Dalton.  I don't ever want him to leave, but if....

I like it on a few levels, mainly as a fun exercise in exploring the possibilities (reality be damned). Dalton is my choice over AJM, but I can see AJM having success with talent and scheme behind him. A very real question is how much can we get for Dalton? That will be what drives this bus. Well, that and a seriously aggressive coaching staff. Now, who would that be? Realistically.

[TKUHL]

(01-25-2017, 12:08 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Just have to out live Mike Brown to see real change.

I doubt this will change anything. Im sure Katy could influence Mike to change things if she wanted too. Im afraid she may have the same mindset as Mikey= Nothing will ever change as long as this family owns the team period.

[*wildcats forever*]

(01-25-2017, 01:27 AM)TKUHL Wrote: I doubt this will change anything. Im sure Katy could influence Mike to change things if she wanted too. Im afraid she may have the same mindset as Mikey= Nothing will ever change as long as this family owns the team period.

I think a lot of us feel the same, but what is being proposed by the OP is a fun exercise in ignoring this fear. While it might be pure fantasy, it's also something that just might work, percentages of probability be damned. Why not give it a few minutes to play along? The negativity and reality of late haven't been much fun now, have they?

[Murdock2420]

(01-25-2017, 12:50 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That's totally accurate.  Look at Karlos Dansby: A beast as a Cardinal, okey-dokey as a Dolphin, a beast as a Cardinal again, and average as a Brown.  As a Bengal, uh, I'm not sure yet.

Then look at Brandon LaFell.  He was so solidly coached by Bill Belichick that his good habits formed by excellent training stayed with him in Cincinnati.

I would say WR is the once place on this team we actually have a good coach. Core and Boyd seemed to show strides as the season went along. Look at the coaching Marvin Jones and Sanu got that they turned into big pay days elsewhere. Just need to clone James Urban. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-25-2017, 01:44 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I would say WR is the once place on this team we actually have a good coach. Core and Boyd seemed to show strides as the season went along. Look at the coaching Marvin Jones and Sanu got that they turned into big pay days elsewhere. Just need to clone James Urban. 

I was going to say something similar.  Prepare to see Urban scavenged soon enough for a chance to go coach for a real organization.

As for the OP.....just blow up the coaching staff....hire a few scouts....then watch what THESE players could do.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-25-2017, 04:11 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: As for the OP.....just blow up the coaching staff....hire a few scouts....then watch what THESE players could do.

That IS a far better idea than what I proposed, of course. My thesis was predicated on a continuous stream of bad coaches working in Cincinnati. You're right: The current roster excelled in college but when they come to the black hole on the Ohio River, skills decay.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-24-2017, 11:46 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...let's bust up this roster and bring in some players who can win in the postseason.  Think outside the box! Dream big! Make YUGE moves!  The Cincinnati Bengals are going to have to expand far beyond their comfort zone to get to the Super Bowl.  Right now the Front Office is acting like the Chinese Politburo, making an endless string of five year plans instead of making the big splash impact moves the team has needed to make since George Bush 41 was president.

Only one quarterback in Marvin Lewis' tenure ever held a lead in a playoff game in the fourth quarter: AJ McCarron.  Why not send Andy Dalton* to San Francisco or Chicago for a butt load of picks, and use the money saved to load up the offensive line with brutal physicality, talent, and so much intelligence not even Paul Alexander could screw them up.  Not only could Jeremy Hill run behind such a line, an octogenarian with a walker could score from three yards out.

Cut Pacman Jones with his legal problems and his big salary!  Use that money to lock down Dre Kirkpatrick, draft Malik Hooker, and pay him a lot of money to provide over the top coverage well into Tom Brady's retirement years.  Get Domata Peko on the sideline, get a big, mean defensive tackle to play next to Geno Atkins, and get some linebackers worthy to suit up next to Vontaze Burfict.





*I think the world of Andy Dalton.  I don't ever want him to leave, but if....

While I am not for shipping off Dalton, I don't think you have to blow up the team to make some of the other changes you describe.  The description of the offensive line is a bit unrealistic, as there simply isn't that kind of talent available but I would certainly use several of the 11 (maybe more with AJM potential trade) picks to improve the offensive line.

Agreed about Adam Jones and Dre....Hooker is a great player, but I think the first pick in the draft should be used to improve the pass rush.  We may not like it, but Williams is under a contract and he did show improvement as the season wore on...I also like Derron Smith.  

The big, mean DT to pair next to Geno is already on the team:  Andrew Billings.  His return from injury, as well as WJIII, will help fortify an already solid defensive unit.  The entire unit should improve with a speedier Vigil on the field in nickel over the plodding Maualuga and the ancient Dansby.  They will certainly add at least one more LB through the draft.

The "huge move" I would like to see is to draft Cook in Round 1, and become a more explosive team overnight.  It isn't as logical as the DE, or even an OT, but it would sure be exciting to watch.