latest from hobson

[yellowxdiscipline]

(01-31-2017, 02:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The issue is we haven't been drafting a lot of guys who can start or contribute year 1. To keep all 11 picks...we'll likely need 3-4 that play a lot.

I think that has more to do with injury and "coaching philosophy" then the players not being talented enough to contribute.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-31-2017, 11:30 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Exactly, the 4 extra picks should be viewed as tools to move around, and put ourselves in position for the prospects we want, not as 4 extra potential players. I mean trying to keep 11 total draft picks is almost impossible, you're gonna end up trying to stash a good amount on the PS who could get scooped up by other teams.

Well, someone gets it.

Now, to trade those picks for a higher number pick, you need a willing partner.  No guarantee.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-31-2017, 02:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: (Easily?) replaceable players:
Rey Maualuga
Pat Sims
Cedric Peerman (if re-signed)
Russell Bodine
TJ Johnson (if re-signed)
Eric Winston (if re-signed)
Marquis Flowers
Clayton Fejedelem
Derron Smith
Margus Hunt (if re-signed)
DeShawn Williams
Add in backup QB if McCarron traded

There are plenty of opportunities to make the roster. Will all the drafted players make it? No. But the roster isn't "too deep" by any means.

Rey Maualuga is under contract, and as previously discussed, that is not the Bengal's way....
Pat Sims will likely not be retained, but there are TWO players to fill his spot, that were both on IR last year and, thus, were not on the active roster...Hardison and Billings.  

So, right now, you are at Plus 1....

Ced Peerman is a special teams captain and I believe they would retain him.  

Russell Bodine is the starting Center on the team.  No way do they release him in his contract year.

TJ Johnson is a valuable backup for both Center and Guard, but I will grant you this one.  (Now EVEN)

Eric Winston- yes, there are younger options available (Now Minus One)

Marquis Flowers- yes, there will be younger, higher potential players available (Now Minus Two)

Clayton Fedjulum and Derron Smith-  Hell no...Fej looked good when pressed in to duty last year due to injury and is a key guy on special teams.  Smith is a better center fielder than Williams, IMHO, and has played well in limited opportunities.  Both are under contract as well.

Margus Hunt- Gone.  (Now Minus Three)

DeShawn Williams-  I don't know his contract status, but I know they like him.  If he isn't brought back, I would be surprised, but I will give you him as well (Now Minus Four).

Should they get a strong offer for McCarron (I think they will), that would leave them at Minus Five.  They have 11 draft picks.  Are you starting to get the picture? This argument started because I said the Bengals would do well to get a pick in NEXT year's draft, for McCarron, and I was throttled for it.  AJM's pick would make 12.  Do we see what I was talking about yet?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-01-2017, 07:18 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Rey Maualuga is under contract, and as previously discussed, that is not the Bengal's way....
Pat Sims will likely not be retained, but there are TWO players to fill his spot, that were both on IR last year and, thus, were not on the active roster...Hardison and Billings.  

So, right now, you are at Plus 1....

Ced Peerman is a special teams captain and I believe they would retain him.  

Russell Bodine is the starting Center on the team.  No way do they release him in his contract year.

TJ Johnson is a valuable backup for both Center and Guard, but I will grant you this one.  (Now EVEN)

Eric Winston- yes, there are younger options available (Now Minus One)

Marquis Flowers- yes, there will be younger, higher potential players available (Now Minus Two)

Clayton Fedjulum and Derron Smith-  Hell no...Fej looked good when pressed in to duty last year due to injury and is a key guy on special teams.  Smith is a better center fielder than Williams, IMHO, and has played well in limited opportunities.  Both are under contract as well.

Margus Hunt- Gone.  (Now Minus Three)

DeShawn Williams-  I don't know his contract status, but I know they like him.  If he isn't brought back, I would be surprised, but I will give you him as well (Now Minus Four).

Should they get a strong offer for McCarron (I think they will), that would leave them at Minus Five.  They have 11 draft picks.  Are you starting to get the picture? This argument started because I said the Bengals would do well to get a pick in NEXT year's draft, for McCarron, and I was throttled for it.  AJM's pick would make 12.  Do we see what I was talking about yet?

I get what you are talking about. But you asked if there were enough spots to replace expendable players. The Bengals may "like" a certain player or release one under contract may not be "the Bengal way", but it doesn't mean they either aren't underperforming and/or not getting enough production from the position itself. Would all 11 rookies come in and replace these guys on the roster? Likely not, but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be a competition for those positions.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(02-01-2017, 07:18 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Rey Maualuga is under contract, and as previously discussed, that is not the Bengal's way....
Pat Sims will likely not be retained, but there are TWO players to fill his spot, that were both on IR last year and, thus, were not on the active roster...Hardison and Billings.  

So, right now, you are at Plus 1....

Ced Peerman is a special teams captain and I believe they would retain him.  

Russell Bodine is the starting Center on the team.  No way do they release him in his contract year.

TJ Johnson is a valuable backup for both Center and Guard, but I will grant you this one.  (Now EVEN)

Eric Winston- yes, there are younger options available (Now Minus One)

Marquis Flowers- yes, there will be younger, higher potential players available (Now Minus Two)

Clayton Fedjulum and Derron Smith-  Hell no...Fej looked good when pressed in to duty last year due to injury and is a key guy on special teams.  Smith is a better center fielder than Williams, IMHO, and has played well in limited opportunities.  Both are under contract as well.

Margus Hunt- Gone.  (Now Minus Three)

DeShawn Williams-  I don't know his contract status, but I know they like him.  If he isn't brought back, I would be surprised, but I will give you him as well (Now Minus Four).

Should they get a strong offer for McCarron (I think they will), that would leave them at Minus Five.  They have 11 draft picks.  Are you starting to get the picture? This argument started because I said the Bengals would do well to get a pick in NEXT year's draft, for McCarron, and I was throttled for it.  AJM's pick would make 12.  Do we see what I was talking about yet?

I don't see them giving up on either of those guys now at this point. We've barely gotten to see them on the field to get an idea if they really are replaceable.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-01-2017, 10:30 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: I don't see them giving up on either of those guys now at this point. We've barely gotten to see them on the field to get an idea if they really are replaceable.

I was very happy to see Smith drafted, as I thought he was a good fit to be a true center field type FS. Unfortunately, he's been hurt a lot and not given much opportunity when healthy either. This always brings into question whether it's because he's struggling to earn reps or are the coaches just being stubborn and showing loyalty to the more veteran players.
Fejedelem, on the other hand, I was not excited about when drafted. I think his ceiling is quality backup. But he showed a little something in limited time last year so maybe there's hope and I'm completely wrong about him.

Either way, when the position struggles, you have to wonder why it's struggling. Is it because the depth isn't good enough to supplant the starter and fresh meat needs to be brought in? Or , as mentioned, is it because of the coaches won't bench the underperforming starters and give the backups a chance?

[Socal Bengals fan]

Maualuga did absolutely nothing last year. Nada. Didn't do shit. Can we just cut him already. I've been wishing this for 4 years now. Complete garbage.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-01-2017, 10:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I get what you are talking about. But you asked if there were enough spots to replace expendable players. The Bengals may "like" a certain player or release one under contract may not be "the Bengal way", but it doesn't mean they either aren't underperforming and/or not getting enough production from the position itself. Would all 11 rookies come in and replace these guys on the roster? Likely not, but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be a competition for those positions.

I'm all for competition, as long as all of those rookies would be properly evaluated and given fair chances to replace entrenched veterans. Unfortunately, that rarely seems to be the case. I loved that they finally replaced Tate and Nugent, but they talked like a family member had died when Tate got cut. Nuge got an embarrassingly long leash before mercifully getting released.

So to sum it up, I like the idea of slapping a bunch of rookies against the wall and seeing what sticks, but I don't believe all rookies are properly evaluated and given chances to earn spots over guys who are considered "family".

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-01-2017, 10:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I get what you are talking about. But you asked if there were enough spots to replace expendable players. The Bengals may "like" a certain player or release one under contract may not be "the Bengal way", but it doesn't mean they either aren't underperforming and/or not getting enough production from the position itself. Would all 11 rookies come in and replace these guys on the roster? Likely not, but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be a competition for those positions.

Completely agree about competition at each position group, but I fear with this many picks that a lot of them will be lost to other teams on the PS.  Remember, when 24 originally trashed me about this idea, it was in reference to ONE extra pick, that could be switched to next year's draft....otherwise, I bet less than half of that 12 picks would end up making this team.  

[*ochocincos*]

(02-01-2017, 08:09 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Completely agree about competition at each position group, but I fear with this many picks that a lot of them will be lost to other teams on the PS.  Remember, when 24 originally trashed me about this idea, it was in reference to ONE extra pick, that could be switched to next year's draft....otherwise, I bet less than half of that 12 picks would end up making this team.  

I also forgot to add Dansby, Burkhead, LaFell to the list.
And James Wright is nothing special at all, can (and should) be upgraded.
So you're looking at possibly....
1-2 RB spots open (Burkhead and possibly Peerman)
1-2 WR spots open (LaFell and possibly Wright)
1-4 OL spots open (Whitworth, Zeitler, Winston, TJ Johnson)
1-3 DL spots open (Hunt, second NT if Sims cut, backup UT/DE competition)
1-2 LB spots (Dansby, Maualuga if cut)
1-3 DB spots (Kirkpatrick, Adam Jones if cut, backup safety?)
1 K (Nugent)
*1 QB (if McCarron traded)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Around 7 at minimum, up to 18 potentially if the team cut certain players or had competition for depth spots.
Obviously, the team will not have every one of their FAs walk. I'd expect 3 back at minimum.
So those numbers obviously go down by a few (at least).

My problem (and I think there are some other fans who also feel this way) is that every draft pick at least gives hope that they will be better than poor performing and/or low ceiling depth players. Could a late round pick actually beat out someone like Peerman, Wright, Flowers, TJ Johnson, Fejedelem, etc? As mentioned, I have hope because all of these current players too were late round picks and haven't become starters, so in my mind they are about at the same level as a late round pick. At least the late round pick is unknown and could potentially become a quality player.

What I also know is that the Bengals (typically) will always keep a 4th round pick on the roster. I only ever recall seeing them sending 5th-7th round draft picks to the PS or waived. Dawson is an exception due primarily to his attitude. So perhaps rather than have 5 picks in rounds 5-7, they could trade some of those away to get back into the earlier rounds. That would result in fewer players overall but likely better talent that can at least replace some of this mediocre depth the Bengals have right now.

[Derrick]

(02-01-2017, 12:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm all for competition, as long as all of those rookies would be properly evaluated and given fair chances to replace entrenched veterans. Unfortunately, that rarely seems to be the case. I loved that they finally replaced Tate and Nugent, but they talked like a family member had died when Tate got cut. Nuge got an embarrassingly long leash before mercifully getting released.

So to sum it up, I like the idea of slapping a bunch of rookies against the wall and seeing what sticks, but I don't believe all rookies are properly evaluated and given chances to earn spots over guys who are considered "family".

I like this idea and also think you are right about coach-bias so having a lot of draft picks may not be a blessing with this staff.

[BengalsRocker]

(02-02-2017, 11:03 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I also forgot to add Dansby, Burkhead, LaFell to the list.
And James Wright is nothing special at all, can (and should) be upgraded.
So you're looking at possibly....
1-2 RB spots open (Burkhead and possibly Peerman)
1-2 WR spots open (LaFell and possibly Wright)
1-4 OL spots open (Whitworth, Zeitler, Winston, TJ Johnson)
1-3 DL spots open (Hunt, second NT if Sims cut, backup UT/DE competition)
1-2 LB spots (Dansby, Maualuga if cut)
1-3 DB spots (Kirkpatrick, Adam Jones if cut, backup safety?)
1 K (Nugent)
*1 QB (if McCarron traded)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Around 7 at minimum, up to 18 potentially if the team cut certain players or had competition for depth spots.
Obviously, the team will not have every one of their FAs walk. I'd expect 3 back at minimum.
So those numbers obviously go down by a few (at least).

My problem (and I think there are some other fans who also feel this way) is that every draft pick at least gives hope that they will be better than poor performing and/or low ceiling depth players. Could a late round pick actually beat out someone like Peerman, Wright, Flowers, TJ Johnson, Fejedelem, etc? As mentioned, I have hope because all of these current players too were late round picks and haven't become starters, so in my mind they are about at the same level as a late round pick. At least the late round pick is unknown and could potentially become a quality player.

What I also know is that the Bengals (typically) will always keep a 4th round pick on the roster. I only ever recall seeing them sending 5th-7th round draft picks to the PS or waived. Dawson is an exception due primarily to his attitude. So perhaps rather than have 5 picks in rounds 5-7, they could trade some of those away to get back into the earlier rounds. That would result in fewer players overall but likely better talent that can at least replace some of this mediocre depth the Bengals have right now.

The problem is not letting go of "has beens" and "never weres" before having crappy depth.

Hunt -  Should have been gone.
Maualuga - He sits much more than he plays.
Peko - Mediocrity defined.  Never good.
Nugent - Cringeworthy.
Bodine - Can this guy not snap the ball low? Basic fundamental function of a Center.  Never mind his vast other shortcomings.
Flowers - What do they see in this guy?  Never got it.
Wright - Nothing special.  Tate sucked at KR but would have contributed more at WR last season IMO.
Dansby - Well shit.  You sign the guy a few years too late.  They've never done that before.  LOL

[Jpoore]

(02-02-2017, 09:14 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The problem is not letting go of "has beens" and "never weres" before having crappy depth.

Hunt -  Should have been gone.
Maualuga - He sits much more than he plays.
Peko - Mediocrity defined.  Never good.
Nugent - Cringeworthy.
Bodine - Can this guy not snap the ball low? Basic fundamental function of a Center.  Never mind his vast other shortcomings.
Flowers - What do they see in this guy?  Never got it.
Wright - Nothing special.  Tate sucked at KR but would have contributed more at WR last season IMO.
Dansby - Well shit.  You sign the guy a few years too late.  They've never done that before.  LOL

would rather sign peko as a backup and cut Sims imo. Other than that spot on.... 

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-02-2017, 11:03 AM)ochocincos Wrote: What I also know is that the Bengals (typically) will always keep a 4th round pick on the roster. I only ever recall seeing them sending 5th-7th round draft picks to the PS or waived. Dawson is an exception due primarily to his attitude. So perhaps rather than have 5 picks in rounds 5-7, they could trade some of those away to get back into the earlier rounds. That would result in fewer players overall but likely better talent that can at least replace some of this mediocre depth the Bengals have right now.

Reid Fragel, Cobi Hamilton, and Mario Alford were all plucked from the PS in the past several years...

[*ochocincos*]

(02-03-2017, 07:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Reid Fragel, Cobi Hamilton, and Mario Alford were all plucked from the PS in the past several years...

They have. The only one who has done anything since then has been Cobi Hamilton, and he still has had as many mental mistake as he has good plays with the Steelers.
However, I still think he's better than James Wright.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-03-2017, 10:01 AM)ochocincos Wrote: They have. The only one who has done anything since then has been Cobi Hamilton, and he still has had as many mental mistake as he has good plays with the Steelers.
However, I still think he's better than James Wright.

When Cobi Hamilton dropped an easy TD against the Pats, I started yelling:  "He's a mole!!! We planted him!!!" and laughed hysterically at the steeler fans crying in their beer.....oh, that was a great day.  

[Bengal Dude]

(02-03-2017, 07:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Reid Fragel, Cobi Hamilton, and Mario Alford were all plucked from the PS in the past several years...

Fragel was the only one plucked.

[CageTheBengal]

"And the record-breaking Lombardi Trophy for head coach Bill Belichick and quarterback Tom Brady is going to come the same way the first one did 15 years ago in New Orleans when they outsmarted the Rams’ “Greatest Show on Turf,” and slowed the game into a defensive brawl."

Am I having trouble waking up this morning or is he saying the Super Bowl is in New Orleans?