Move on from Whitworth if it means keeping Zeitler

[Jpoore]

(02-08-2017, 03:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals can't seem to keep quality players like Marvin Jones, Reggie Nelson, and now possibly Zeitler, but thankfully they were able to bring back the likes of Rey Maualuga!

Can't blame Marvin Jones on the Bengals though they gave him the same contract to stay but he wanted to leave. The Bengals fo actually showed up on that one.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-08-2017, 12:37 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Whit is old, Zeitler isn't. If i'm choosing between the two, i'm going Zeitler.

It's time we got out of our loyalty phase and made some tough decisions.

It would be different if Whitworth had already started to fall off due to age...

It would also be different if Fisher or Og shown a hint that they could replace him somewhat...

It would also be different if Zeitler was a great Guard which he is not.

The part that really sucks about this is our O-line coach that does not know how to coach up players.

If we had a different O-line coach i would keep Whit, coach up Westerman, draft a future raw OT and a Center.

Right now with PA we are pretty much screwed cause we have to keep both of these guys really.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-08-2017, 01:40 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I say Keep Whit on a two year deal and play Westerman at guard, then draft a Decent Center in round 2-3 of 2017 draft.  Draft another OT in 2018, let Whit mentor him.  By then either Fisher or OG will be RT. 

The Bengals will not pay guard 10 million a year.  They value Whit's leadership, loyalty.  They will pay Kirkpatrick because the team values skill position players, especially cornerback. 

Enough with the mentoring stuff.  Whit has mentored Ced and Fisher, where has that got us?

Players don't mentor when they are preparing for games, we have to have coaches that can identify and develop talent, you can't leave it to the players.  They have better things to do.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-08-2017, 05:06 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Enough with the mentoring stuff.  Whit has mentored Ced and Fisher, where has that got us?

Players don't mentor when they are preparing for games, we have to have coaches that can identify and develop talent, you can't leave it to the players.  They have better things to do.

Sure would be nice if we had an Offensive Line coach to do Whit's damn job!

[Hammerstripes]

(02-08-2017, 05:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sure would be nice if we had an Offensive Line coach to do Whit's damn job!

True - this is the first time that I have really doubted PA.  He had such a long track record with good picks in the first and second rounds (Willie, Levi, Steinbach, Whitworth, Zeitler) but that stretch seems to be coming to an end.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-08-2017, 04:41 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Can't blame Marvin Jones on the Bengals though they gave him the same contract to stay but he wanted to leave. The Bengals fo actually showed up on that one.

Fully agreed, they offered him about the same contract, he wanted a better opportunity to become the top WR on the team. That wasn't going to happen in Cincy.
But you get my point that they seem to talk about wanting to retain all their top talent. They have certain guys walk yet other lower performing players (like Maualuga, Thompson, Sims, Peerman even from purely a RB POV, etc) are brought back. They don't seem to be willing to overpay too much for their top talent, but they do offer very fair contracts. In some cases, it results in those players going elsewhere. The issue is when the team overpays for mediocre talent that they drafted and simply won't let go of. Maualuga, Thompson, Sims, Peerman, etc could be upgraded relatively easily, but this team is more comfortable with who they know vs who they don't when it comes to seeking depth or serviceable starters.

[BURROWorBUST]

(02-08-2017, 01:40 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I say Keep Whit on a two year deal and play Westerman at guard, then draft a Decent Center in round 2-3 of 2017 draft.  Draft another OT in 2018, let Whit mentor him.  By then either Fisher or OG will be RT. 

The Bengals will not pay guard 10 million a year.  They value Whit's leadership, loyalty.  They will pay Kirkpatrick because the team values skill position players, especially cornerback. 

This. I was going to ask about Westerman's progress. I guess he's still a bit of a question mark, but I agree. Whit is the bigger piece. You keep him. I;d like to keep Z, too, but if he walks he walks. I hear Seattle is where he might end up.

[Burma]

After seeing Nate Solder struggle badly and hearing Chris Long talk I could easily see Whit deciding to head to NE for his last few years.  If any Bengal has ever deserved to be a superbowl champ, Whit is surely among them. Hell, I wouldn't even be mad at the guy for chasing a superbowl.

[*Go Cards*]

Sign them both !

[*Go Cards*]

Then cut PA !

[guyofthetiger]

Knowing Mikey, he'll let them both walk and put some rookies on the Oline. Well, he'll say it worked with Dallas.

[Shake n Blake]

Sad how we have to keep a 36 yo tackle after drafting 2 in the top 2 rounds of the draft just 2 years ago. The line is in shambles with little to no talent waiting in the wings, and we're hoping like heck we can keep the oldest tackle in football to keep it from falling apart any further.

Yet the man responsible for all this doesn't even have to worry for one second about his job security.

[BenZoo2]

The bengals should be able to keep both. They won't get into a bidding war for Zeitler. Whit is still playing lt at an elite level. I could see that continuing for 2 more years and he could possibly kick down to guard afterwards. I also think he wants to finish his career here.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-08-2017, 12:37 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Whit is old, Zeitler isn't. If i'm choosing between the two, i'm going Zeitler.

It's time we got out of our loyalty phase and made some tough decisions.

Whit is one of the best in the league, Zeitler isn't....

A tough decision that needs to be made is that if Zeitler doesn't accept something under $8 million per year, then he is allowed to go sign elsewhere and will likely become a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2018.  Then, you draft a guard and save millions while potentially improving the play at the position.  You can't be afraid to go with a pick due to the failure of Ogbuehi.  This draft class is loaded with talent at Guard, not so much OT.  

He simply isn't an elite talent and shouldn't be compensated like one.  We also have no clue what the team thinks about Westerman.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-08-2017, 01:40 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I say Keep Whit on a two year deal and play Westerman at guard, then draft a Decent Center in round 2-3 of 2017 draft.  Draft another OT in 2018, let Whit mentor him.  By then either Fisher or OG will be RT. 

The Bengals will not pay guard 10 million a year.  They value Whit's leadership, loyalty.  They will pay Kirkpatrick because the team values skill position players, especially cornerback. 

Yep, but I think they might pay a guard $10 million a year if he were the best guard in the league and he was drafted by Cincinnati....Zeitler is simply not a dominant player.  He's solid.  That doesn't get $10 million a year from a smart team.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-09-2017, 12:10 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Sad how we have to keep a 36 yo tackle after drafting 2 in the top 2 rounds of the draft just 2 years ago. The line is in shambles with little to no talent waiting in the wings, and we're hoping like heck we can keep the oldest tackle in football to keep it from falling apart any further.

Yet the man responsible for all this doesn't even have to worry for one second about his job security.

While this is all true, I think it could become a position group of strength in just one draft.  Draft a Guard like Feeney and a Center like Elfien early, you have Fisher at RT, Boling at LG, and Whit for at least two more years with time to develop his replacement.  

Bodine will not be defended this year, as his contract ends at the end of the season.  Drafting his replacement for 2018 is logical and can push for the starting job this year.  Bodine could become the backup.  I also thought Fisher looked really good when finally given his shot at RT last year.  He isn't fighting an offseason injury like Ced, either, where he will surely come back to the bengals even stronger.  

As for PA, just one poor quarter, really, or design/execution/etc in the Super Bowl and the Falcons are replacing two coaches on defense....Ouch.  That is the difference between winning and losing:  accountability.  Alexander should have been tossed out after getting his QB killed this past year.  

[Okeana]

Whitworth plays better than the number he will demand because of age and the guy is still one of the best LT's in the league and age hasn't slowed him down. Dropping peko and luga will help free up more space, but ultimately i think they feel like westerman or another drafted guy could play guard. Even Ced may end up at guard and just bring back Andre Smith on the cheap because lets face it Andre plays well on this team.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(02-08-2017, 12:37 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Whit is old, Zeitler isn't. If i'm choosing between the two, i'm going Zeitler.

It's time we got out of our loyalty phase and made some tough decisions.

I think both can be had if the front office is smart about it. If we are true to our "draft, develop, and resign our own" formula then it makes sense to keep Zeitler. I love Whitworth, and I hope he stays, but the only way he stays here is just pure loyalty. 100% certain he will get a better offer somewhere, there's a few teams out there that are just a LT away,  that will be in better position, and offer more money.

[jj22]

In typical Bengal front office form they lowballed Marvin Jones until he was sold on and visited Detroit then like J.Joe, Johnson and countless others they tried to get competitive. Too late then. They see all the nice amenities, towels that fit, no limit on Gatorade, indoor practice facilities and the Bengals can't compete.

Look how they treated Z. Reports as of last week was they still haven't even spoken to him about a new contract. That's what they do, then they try to "match" when it's too late and wonder why the player doesn't re-sign.

The Bengals are only good at signing players before their contracts are up. A bidding war and they lose out badly. Treat these players like they don't need them (cheap labor), and then sell the fanbase on the idea that they tried but the player chose elsewhere.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Let's just cut to the crux of it. Mike is too effing cheap and doesn't want to pay Kevin, so he's going to overpay Whitworth.