2020 Draft Class Contract Renegotiations

[SouthernFan]

(01-10-2023, 03:38 PM)pally Wrote: The Raven just gave Roquan Smith 5 years $100 million,  $45 million up to $60 million guaranteed.  He is now the highest paid Will linebacker in the league

How do you think this affects what the Bengals do for Wilson?

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-09-2023, 07:24 PM)SouthernFan Wrote: Don’t believe there will be any discussion about extension this off-season. I would expect they will exercise 5th year option when the time comes and then begin to negotiate extension after the end of next year.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Mahomes, Allen, etc. all negotiated extensions after year 3 that did not kick in until year 6. 

I keep trying to tell people this, but it is not breaking through. And is sonewhat counter-intuitive. 

[SouthernFan]

(01-10-2023, 03:42 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: You don't exercise a 5th year option on a QB like Joe. Hell, they didn't even do that with Andy Dalton. Joe will be extended this off-season. 

EDIT - Andy was a 2nd rounder, whoops. He didn't have an option. He was extended after his third season, though, which is what I was originally thinking of. Carson was also extended after his third season. Joe will have a headline this off-season.

Of course you do; that doesn’t mean you don’t subsequently reach an agreement and extend him. Chiefs exercised Mahomes 5th yr option in May and then signed extension in July that year. Also, see posts by Synric and Isaac above.

Sorry if anybody took my original post to mean I don’t want to see an immediate extension. I do. I believe Joe is the best thing to happen to this franchise in 40 years. I’ve been a Bengals fan for over 50 years and seen a lot of head scratching moves out of Mike Brown. Finally starting to believe things have changed, but not totally convinced just yet. 

[KillerGoose]

(01-10-2023, 05:03 PM)SouthernFan Wrote: Of course you do; that doesn’t mean you don’t subsequently reach an agreement and extend him. Chiefs exercised Mahomes 5th yr option in May and then signed extension in July that year. Also, see posts by Synric and Isaac above.

Sorry if anybody took my original post to mean I don’t want to see an immediate extension. I do. I believe Joe is the best thing to happen to this franchise in 40 years. I’ve been a Bengals fan for over 50 years and seen a lot of head scratching moves out of Mike Brown. Finally starting to believe things have changed, but not totally convinced just yet. 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post, then. You said...

Quote:Don’t believe there will be any discussion about extension this off-season..

That doesn't really fit with your thoughts here. I took your post as saying "exercise his option and extend him at a different time." I personally don't think there is any scenario where Joe doesn't get extended this off-season. It will be Joe's third off-season, which is when Andy received his extension, which is also when Carson received his extension, which is also when Mahomes/Allen/Murray received their extensions, so on and so forth. 

Sorry if I misunderstood you. I flubbed on my thoughts in my original post, but I think this is a clearer idea of what I think will happen. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-09-2023, 11:39 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Historically it has gone up about 10-12 million per year.  We have roughly $40 million in cap space next year.  So if you look about 6-7 years in the future, the cap should be around $300 million.  If contracts are structured correctly, it's definitely possible to keep them and have a good roster.

This again. We do not have $40 mil in cap space next year. You must go to OverTheCap. It's crap. 

More like $25-30. And that is without paying Bates, Bell, Pratt, Hurst, Apple, and Perine. And a slew of other FAs. 

You should stop listening to whomever is telling you $40 million. NONE of that will go towards Burrow, Higgins, & Chase, anyway. Those deals will hit the books in 2024 (Higgins), 2025 (Burrow), and 2026 (Chase). 

Let me walk you through it. 


OverTheCap sucks. Or needs to be taken in context. They are projecting the cap at $230 mil, almost everyone else is at $220. That's $10 mil off right there. So down to $40 mil. 

Both OTC and spotrac have our contracts (for 41 guys) at $178 mil or so. $179 with Dead Cap. 

First off, we won't burn all our cap room to start. Guys will get hurt/released as the season progresses. We'll have to sign more guys. Dead cap will be incurred. $5-$10 mil cushion. Say $5. $35. 

Second, we gotta pay FAs. We have 12 open roster spots. 10 under 51.  Including a starting LB, TE, CB, and 2 starting safeties. Perine makes almost $2 mil now. As does Flowers. We'll have a #1 pick to sign. Say we sign 5 guys at near vet min for their time of sevice, say $6 mil plus the pick at around, what, two? That's $8 mil. I asume we cut B. Wilson to save $2 mil. So $6 mil more. $29 mil. 

$29 mil with 46 guys signed. None of our picks beyond the first. None of Bates, Bell, Pratt, Hurst, Apple, or Perine retained. If we let ALL those guys walk, we have $30 mil-ish to play with. Maybe we lose a couple. But not everybody. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-09-2023, 01:51 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think the Bengals would be wise to give Joe a 8 to 10 year contract. They need to lock him up for his career ASAP and by doing a long term contract, they can pay a big bonus upfront (towards guaranteed money) and pro rate it for cap purposes over the life of the deal.

Everything at this point for Joe and Tee are pure speculation. I am hopeful Joe is reasonable. He is not the best QB in the league so asking to be paid like the best in the league is not being reasonable. I would hope he is smart enough to know the Bengals or any team needs to pay to place a great roster around him so asking for too much in the end hurts his case to win championships.

Well said Luvnit. Agree with everything you say here, pay Joe a big early bonus on a decade long contract. He should be paid just lower
than Mahomes but front loaded so he has his guaranteed money. Tee is the question, will he take a contract that is just slightly less than a
#1 WR in order to stay on his favorite team and do so accounting for the fact he is hurt a lot?

[WeezyBengal]

I wouldn't be shocked if the parameters of the Burrow extension are already in place, the thing just needs to be official/signed.

[J24]

Burrow is smart and will sign a relatively team friendly deal. He knows Championships will get him more money on the long run.

( I hypothesis that one of the reasons why DeShawn signed a fully guaranteed deal is because he knows he wont get any huge endorsement deals. That's not going to be a problem for Joe.)

As for Higgins I could see him signing a big contract here or being traded and signing else where. It's truly 50/50 at this point. They also could punt until 2024.

[Luvnit2]

(01-10-2023, 03:38 PM)pally Wrote: The Raven just gave Roquan Smith 5 years $100 million,  $45 million up to $60 million guaranteed.  He is now the highest paid Will linebacker in the league

Anyone surprised the Ravens signed Smith prior to signing Jackson?

The 2023 Ravens have about 1 million more than us in 2023 cap. We could cut safety Wilson's 2 million contract and have 1 million more than them. The Smith contract is for 5 years and 100 million, but not sure how it is structured with only 45 to 60 million guaranteed. 

My point is to franchise Jackson would probably cost at least 40 of their 48 million, so Smith could eat rest of their cap in 2023.
They also cut Boyle today and eating a lot of dead money.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-10-2023, 06:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Anyone surprised the Ravens signed Smith prior to signing Jackson?

The 2023 Ravens have about 1 million more than us in 2023 cap. We could cut safety Wilson's 2 million contract and have 1 million more than them. The Smith contract is for 5 years and 100 million, but not sure how it is structured with only 45 to 60 million guaranteed. 

My point is to franchise Jackson would probably cost at least 40 of their 48 million, so Smith could eat rest of their cap in 2023.
They also cut Boyle today and eating a lot of dead money.

I'd have a hard to believing that Lamar would play on the franchise tag.

[Luvnit2]

(01-10-2023, 06:27 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I'd have a hard to believing that Lamar would play on the franchise tag.

I am sure that is not his wish, but he may not have a choice. But even if they do sign him, my guess it is for at least 5 years at 215 million minimum with at least 70% guaranteed.

So, he will make a lot of money in 2023 either way. The question becomes is if the Ravens are going to sign him at all, franchise and trade him or just let him walk and get a 3rd round pick in 2024 when another team signs him?

[Essex Johnson]

(01-10-2023, 01:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think the Ravens are in a tough spot. No doubt Lamar is a great running QB, but an average passing QB. But, the biggest issue for any team giving him the top contract for QB's is injury. It would be tough for me to lock Jackson up for 8 to 10 years with a ton of GUARANTEED money. 

The Watson guaranteed money deal puts the Ravens and all teams in a tough position. I am not so sure Jackson and the Ravens can work out a deal if he demands most of his contract guaranteed. He is his own agent, so we will see how this contract negotiation progresses very soon.

I do agree, Jackson was a MVP, but is he a Culpepper, Vick or Cam Newton or is he a Drew Brees long term?

Well he has missed 11 total games in his 5 year career  which means he has played in about 85% of the games,  I understand the style might hurt him some but he the Ravens have set up their team around his style . Also i think part of his lack of passing is the Ravens organization fault.. where do you think the Bengals would be this year with a WR core of Robinson, Watkins , Duvernay vs Chase, Higgins, Boyd...   he is in line for a high contract

[Luvnit2]

(01-10-2023, 11:08 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well he has missed 11 total games in his 5 year career  which means he has played in about 85% of the games,  I understand the style might hurt him some but he the Ravens have set up their team around his style . Also i think part of his lack of passing is the Ravens organization fault.. where do you think the Bengals would be this year with a WR core of Robinson, Watkins , Duvernay vs Chase, Higgins, Boyd...   he is in line for a high contract

I am not questioning his ability or a huge contract looming. I am questioning if it is the Ravens that will give it to him. Yes, they structured their offense and skill players (great OL and great TE's) around Jackson, but not paying him would give them the money to get better receivers and a pocket passer.

I was surprised they signed Smith versus Jackson first and don't see the cap space to also sign Jackson and keep others on the team.

[samhain]

(01-10-2023, 11:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am not questioning his ability or a huge contract looming. I am questioning if it is the Ravens that will give it to him. Yes, they structured their offense and skill players (great OL and great TE's) around Jackson, but not paying him would give them the money to get better receivers and a pocket passer.

I was surprised they signed Smith versus Jackson first and don't see the cap space to also sign Jackson and keep others on the team.

It's a tough call.  You have to design your offense around his specific skill set, but when he's on he's great, which is a lot.  

I think the Ravens hesitate to pay him due to injury and the fact that his elite run ability will not last forever.  He lacks touch on his passes, but he's definitely not horribly limited through the air.  

The ravens need to be real careful with him.  The grass ain't always greener, and they're doing all they can to piss off a guy who's at worst a top 10 quarterback in the league.  If you don't pay him, you can search for a decade and not find a player of his caliber.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-10-2023, 11:33 PM)samhain Wrote: \
It's a tough call.  You have to design your offense around his specific skill set, but when he's on he's great, which is a lot.  

I think the Ravens hesitate to pay him due to injury and the fact that his elite run ability will not last forever.  He lacks touch on his passes, but he's definitely not horribly limited through the air.  

The ravens need to be real careful with him.  The grass ain't always greener, and they're doing all they can to piss off a guy who's at worst a top 10 quarterback in the league.  If you don't pay him, you can search for a decade and not find a player of his caliber.

Horribly limited? Maybe not, but definitely limited through the air.

He's the 13th highest rated . . . *ahem* . . . "passer" of all-time, just ahead of Peyton Manning. That means that he must be good, huh? No, it does not. The least amount of WR receptions since Jackson has come into the NFL . . . Baltimore. I wonder why?

Coming into this season, the #5 rated passer in the elaborate history of the NFL was Jimmie Garoppolo(now #6 because of Burrow's move into #4) and San Fran wanted to get rid of him all off-season while no one else wanted "a top 5 QB". Today's passer rating is tweaked by dump offs, screens, shovel passes, and also in Jackson's case, one hell of a TE, who is starting to show the wear of being the lone top target of a QB with down the field accuracy issues.

I'd have eight in the box on every snap with Jackson at QB. Tremendous athlete at QB? Absolutely, but a consistent threat down the field? Hardly.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-10-2023, 06:27 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I'd have a hard to believing that Lamar would play on the franchise tag.

He'll stay away as long as possible. He'll show up to get an accrued season and try FA again in the next offseason.