2020 Presidential Election

[*Nately120*]

(04-29-2020, 03:43 PM)hollodero Wrote: I get it. I really really do. I'm also not telling you anything, I say I get the argument of those that do.

Because you put it sarcastically, and this also is very understandable, but it is just like that. The guy who gets the job is either Trump or Biden and that is the only effective choice you have. Voting third party is just as good as not voting at all. You leave the decision between the two, the only decision there effectively is, to the others. Don't be mad at me for pointing that out. That's just the state of things.

Also I do think that the thought "it should be about someone I want, not someone I don't want" is a false flag. As understandable as it is, it is also denial of reality. Which, again, is that it can only be one of those two. And it's possibly about the lesser of two evils, which, honestly, cannot quite be the first time ever you felt that way unless you're way under 30. Jeez, most of my votes were at least as much about avoiding something than about getting something.

The only relevant sentence regarding your actual decision is the first one. Everything else, as sad as this might be, is utopy.

That being said, I do respect your motivation and I sure do not try to shame you into changing it.

PS all that only applies if you live in some kind of swing state. If you don't, you don't have even one choice to begin with. In this case going third party is even more understandable.

The short of it is that I realize in 2020 a perverted nut is going to be president.  I intend to complain about that without being a hypocrite.

Thats all there is to it, really. 

Im not saying I'm right or even that smart. This goes all the way back to 1989 when I was in second grade and my class decided to take a poll and ask if your favorite band was Milli Vanilli or The New Kids on the Block. Put me down for other.

[fredtoast]

(04-29-2020, 03:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd rather see Biden win that Trump, but I'd also rather vote for the person I think is the best for the job, not the person I think will give me the best chance of being on the winning side. 

I just don't see why 3rd party voters are constantly being told to change their votes in the cases where party liners are holding their noses as they cast theirs. 

Maybe im selfish but not voting for a candidate who is morally reprehensible doesn't seem like a wasted vote to me.  Is your vote supposed to be about who you want as president or who you don't want?

Should the ballot say 

DEAR GOD, NOT TRUMP
vs
DEAR GOD, NOT BIDEN


If that's the case then in happy I can cast a vote for dear God not either of those bastards.

The two choices are Trump or Biden.  No one else has a chance. If you don't vote for one of them then you don't give a shit who is president.

And if you can't see any difference between Biden and Trump then I am glad you are throwing your vote away.

I consider my right to vote the privilege to do the best I can for my country/stat/county.  I am not going to waste it.  Here where I live only Republicans get elected to local positions.  I could waste my vote for a Democrat or I can actually have some influence on who wins by voting for the best choice among the Republicans.  I chose to make my vote actually mean something.

[hollodero]

(04-29-2020, 03:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The short of it is that I realize in 2020 a perverted nut is going to be president.  I intend to complain about that without being a hypocrite.

Thats all there is to it, really. 

OK, I see the point.

For the record, I do think one of them is way more of a perverted nut than the other (who imho is neither perverted nor a nut). But if you see it like you said, I can understand you.

(04-29-2020, 03:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Im not saying I'm right or even that smart. This goes all the way back to 1989 when I was in second grade and my class decided to take a poll and ask if your favorite band was Milli Vanilli or The New Kids on the Block.  Put me down for other.

lol...
It's not exactly the same thing though. No one asks who your favorite person for the job is. You're asked who you like better.

[*Nately120*]

(04-29-2020, 03:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The two choices are Trump or Biden.  No one else has a chance. If you don't vote for one of them then you don't give a shit who is president.

And if you can't see any difference between Biden and Trump then I am glad you are throwing your vote away.

I consider my right to vote the privilege to do the best I can for my country/stat/county.  I am not going to waste it.  Here where I live only Republicans get elected to local positions.  I could waste my vote for a Democrat or I can actually have some influence on who wins by voting for the best choice among the Republicans.  I chose to make my vote actually mean something.

So give a shit but not enough of a shit to actually be swayed to vote for the candidate I feel best fits the role?

Care enough to vote but don't care enough to look beyond the two exceedingly flawed options that are being pushed upon you.  

Do i care too much or not enough?


And local stuff is different. I've voted on various sides for that over the years.

[*bfine32*]

(04-29-2020, 03:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The two choices are Trump or Biden.  No one else has a chance. If you don't vote for one of them then you don't give a shit who is president.

And if you can't see any difference between Biden and Trump then I am glad you are throwing your vote away.

I consider my right to vote the privilege to do the best I can for my country/stat/county.  I am not going to waste it.  Here where I live only Republicans get elected to local positions.  I could waste my vote for a Democrat or I can actually have some influence on who wins by voting for the best choice among the Republicans.  I chose to make my vote actually mean something.

This could very well be why I'm a registered Democrat.

Let's be honest there are states where you are wasting your vote if you vote for Biden and there are those states where you waste your vote voting for Trump. Do you suggest those folks don't vote or should they still vote for the candidate they want? After all we've got the popular vote to worry about.

2016 I voted for McMillian along with 1.2% other Kentuckians; bet you can't guess why?

[hollodero]

(04-29-2020, 05:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do you suggest those folks don't vote or should they still vote for the candidate they want? After all we've got the popular vote to worry about.

I'd suggest those folks are mad as hell about this whole winner takes all voting system that makes their votes irrelevant.

Aside from that, it really doesn't matter what they do. Popular vote is irrelevant, and I know I say that to the person who made this very point quite often.

[samhain]

(04-29-2020, 03:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The two choices are Trump or Biden.  No one else has a chance. If you don't vote for one of them then you don't give a shit who is president.

And if you can't see any difference between Biden and Trump then I am glad you are throwing your vote away.

I consider my right to vote the privilege to do the best I can for my country/stat/county.  I am not going to waste it.  Here where I live only Republicans get elected to local positions.  I could waste my vote for a Democrat or I can actually have some influence on who wins by voting for the best choice among the Republicans.  I chose to make my vote actually mean something.

I was asked what the difference between DJT and Biden was by one of my left-leaning friends the other day.  He was trying to be a smartass about it pertaining to their histories of being accused of creeper-ish behavior.  

I told him the difference was the Supreme Court, and that it was probably the most impactful thing a president does regarding outcomes in out day-to-day lives.  If people can't see that, then they're not paying attention.  

[CKwi88]

(04-29-2020, 03:18 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Which state are you in?

CT.

So yeah, none of my presidential votes have really meant anything

[BmorePat87]

(04-29-2020, 06:20 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: CT.

So yeah, none of my presidential votes have really meant anything

Yea, like Maryland, you can have a protest vote and not worry that you and 0.03% threw the election lol. 

[BmorePat87]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/495305-poll-shows-trump-biden-in-tight-race-in-texas

Biden up 1% in Texas... granted it's from PPP, but still...

[*bfine32*]

(04-29-2020, 05:09 PM)hollodero Wrote: I'd suggest those folks are mad as hell about this whole winner takes all voting system that makes their votes irrelevant.

Aside from that, it really doesn't matter what they do. Popular vote is irrelevant, and I know I say that to the person who made this very point quite often.

So besides being mad;  should they vote?

[hollodero]

(04-29-2020, 07:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So besides being mad;  should they vote?

Well... I could see an argument of supporting an unfair system by still playing along. But that sure is fueled by my strong feeling that your whole voting system for president is just that, unfair to said individual and many oothers that effectively have zero choice and voice.
On the other hand, not voting is rather interpreted as a symptom of not caring, and the impression of people not caring is a danger to democracy.

I'm still going with being mad first and foremost. Also, they still 'should' vote. But I can understand when folks are frustrated or nihilistic about that one. I'd be.

[BmorePat87]

(04-29-2020, 12:09 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'll probably vote for him anyways, but it's gonna be fun hearing my party-line pals explain why voting for the guy who can put together a cogent thought and isn't gleeful sex offender makes me an idiot.

States don't have to be winner take all. Nothing requires that. Something as simple as removing that unnecessary trend would completely change how our elections work (without actually changing the Electoral College itself) and allow people to actually vote for their favorite candidate without it feeling like a waste. 

[BmorePat87]

CNN and NYT both reported that Trump screamed at his campaign manager and threatened to sue him over internal polling by the campaign and RNC that showed him trailing in battleground states. Whether or not he was serious, neither confirmed, but his trailing numbers and his base's desire to open the country up should lead to some unfortunately poor decisions.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/495369-trump-lashed-out-at-campaign-manager-over-polling-showing-him

[*Nately120*]

(04-30-2020, 10:04 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: CNN and NYT both reported that Trump screamed at his campaign manager and threatened to sue him over internal polling by the campaign and RNC that showed him trailing in battleground states. Whether or not he was serious, neither confirmed, but his trailing numbers and his base's desire to open the country up should lead to some unfortunately poor decisions.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/495369-trump-lashed-out-at-campaign-manager-over-polling-showing-him

Ok if Biden gets Trump this flustered maybe I do like him. 

[hollodero]

(04-30-2020, 11:51 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok if Biden gets Trump this flustered maybe I do like him. 

This isn't exactly news though, is it. This whole trying to extort Ukraine's prime minister to announce investigations thing seems pretty much initiated by Trump being awfully nervous about Biden.

[BmorePat87]

McConnell commented on the allegations against Biden by saying

"When you run for president of the United States your life is an open book and I can't imagine that Vice President Biden isn't going to have to participate in releasing all of the information related to the allegations. It's a very challenging thing to run for president. And I think everyone that's done that has realized their entire life is opened up to scrutiny. And I think that's happening to Vice President Biden and they shouldn't be surprised."

Except if that person's name is Donald Trump. This also doesn't apply to anyone on the Supreme Court when they're being vetted.

[*bfine32*]

(04-30-2020, 03:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: McConnell commented on the allegations against Biden by saying

"When you run for president of the United States your life is an open book and I can't imagine that Vice President Biden isn't going to have to participate in releasing all of the information related to the allegations. It's a very challenging thing to run for president. And I think everyone that's done that has realized their entire life is opened up to scrutiny. And I think that's happening to Vice President Biden and they shouldn't be surprised."

Except if that person's name is Donald Trump. This also doesn't apply to anyone on the Supreme Court when they're being vetted.

Exactly, Trump and Kavs weren't scrutinized at all. 

[BmorePat87]

(04-30-2020, 03:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Exactly, Trump and Kavs weren't scrutinized at all. 

They absolutely were, but Trump has famously refused to release his tax returns and McConnell forced Kavanaugh's nomination hearing forward without releasing documents that would normally be reviewed, with many Bush era documents only being released the day before the hearings even started. 

McConnell was okay with neither of those being an "open book". 

[hollodero]

(04-30-2020, 03:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Exactly, Trump and Kavs weren't scrutinized at all. 

Sure they were, but McConnell did not quite insist the had to "participate in releasing all of the information related to the allegations"