7 Winners & 3 Losers From Week 2 Against The Giants

[dr tarzan]

(08-22-2022, 12:24 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Did you see B Allen back shoulder throw that was 5 to 10 yards short on the sideline and he started pointing at the WR like it was his fault.

wasn't a back shoulder, it was a comeback.  You could read Allen's lips and hand motions telling the WR so.  The throw was right the route was wrong.

[fredtoast]

(08-22-2022, 03:06 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Allen provides zero chance to win IMO.

Since he has already won a game for us your opinion is 100% wrong.

[fredtoast]

(08-22-2022, 01:21 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: My bad. I forgot to mention:

“Amongst all these ‘intangibles’ he CAN luck into a decent game once every blood moon.”

Over 176 attempts in '20 and '21 he has a 80.2 passer rating for the Bengals.  That is better than most back up QBs.

[BengalsBong]

(08-22-2022, 03:11 PM)dr tarzan Wrote: wasn't a back shoulder, it was a comeback.  You could read Allen's lips and hand motions telling the WR so.  The throw was right the route was wrong.

You would think if a guy ran the wrong route that the QB would see this and throw the ball someplace else. You have to look at the WR to throw it too him if the guy was not where he should be then adjust your throw or go to different guy. 

Even if this was on the WR you cannot assume the throw was good because he was inaccurate all night. And that throw did not make or break his performance it was one play out of 30 mins of football.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(08-22-2022, 01:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I saw him go 29-37 (78.4%) for 371 yards, 2 tds, and 0 interceptions against the Texans.

(08-22-2022, 01:21 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: My bad. I forgot to mention:

“Amongst all these ‘intangibles’ he CAN luck into a decent game once every blood moon.”

I've always used the line, "Even a shitty golfer gets a good shot once in awhile."

origin of that statement . . .
I have never gotten a hole in one. A friend of mine got one while we were playing in a tournament . . . I've kicked his ass by multiple strokes in every round of golf that we've played.

[fredtoast]

(08-22-2022, 03:41 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: You would think if a guy ran the wrong route that the QB would see this and throw the ball someplace else. You have to look at the WR to throw it too him if the guy was not where he should be then adjust your throw or go to different guy. 

A QB can't throw the ball to where the WR "is".  He has to throw it to where the receiver is "going to be" when the pass arrives.

In fact that is the only way a "come back" route can work.

[*bfine32*]

(08-22-2022, 01:52 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If Shooter wasn't kicking in a pre-season game, he'd be kicking in practice, so what's the difference. His streak could not have gone on forever, so he missed last night and can start it all over again.

The same reason we're not playing the other starters...to avoid injury. 

[casear2727]

(08-22-2022, 02:51 PM)Au165 Wrote: Correct, It's a sight adjustment and the Corner was on top so you break it off at 12-15 and comeback. 

Brandon Allen actually looked good to me last night which is why this is funny. When playing with back up receivers it's hard because where your starters end up on plays versus backups can be a lot different. The slot fade to Taylor was a really good ball as was placed right where you want it. The big difference is Taylor is 5-8 vs 6 foot + so to most our receivers the ball is right in front of their outstretched arms. That is a timing and location throw, you throw it to a specific spot on time and it's your receivers job to be where he needs to be and that was perfect.

There was another pass in the first half that was a go ball that I thought looked perfect while in the air that Morgan couldn't quite get to. Again, this seems like one where a better receiver fights through Jackson's physicality and get to where that ball was. Now I am not saying he was perfect by any means but I think Brandon Allen is a fine back up. Back ups in the NFL don't get much in the way of reps so it's important for them to be heady guys. Their main job is to get QB1 ready during the week and then be an extra set of eyes on the sideline. 

Bill Polian was once asked why they never invested more in a back up for Manning. His response was that if 18 goes down we are F'd and we don't prepare for F'd. In a way it's true. When you have a really high end QB1 he usually covers for blemishes on the roster that no back up can cover for anyways. 

No late round/UDFA rookie is going to do what you actually want QB2 to do and that is help QB1, so we do everything we can to help Joe and hope for the best. The team is actually built decently to go run heavy and hang their hat on the defense if Burrow has to miss a week or two. At that point you want Allen to be able to get them into the right plays with his eyes and head more so then go win with his arm.

I think Thomas was in the wrong on the one we just discussed and again in the same series where he broke off his route way too early on 3rd down... 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Thaddeus Moss his blocking looks improved from last season. He is still a liability in the passing game though. He has improved but is it enough? With Sample hurt we may have to go with Moss or look elsewhere,

[*PhilHos*]

(08-22-2022, 04:12 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Thaddeus Moss his blocking looks improved from last season. He is still a liability in the passing game though. He has improved but is  it enough? With Sample hurt we may have to go with Moss or look elsewhere,

With Hurst as our starting TE, I think we just bring in a backup OL if we're going to need better blocking from the TE position.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-22-2022, 02:51 PM)Au165 Wrote: Correct, It's a sight adjustment and the Corner was on top so you break it off at 12-15 and comeback. 

Brandon Allen actually looked good to me last night which is why this is funny. When playing with back up receivers it's hard because where your starters end up on plays versus backups can be a lot different. The slot fade to Taylor was a really good ball as was placed right where you want it. The big difference is Taylor is 5-8 vs 6 foot + so to most our receivers the ball is right in front of their outstretched arms. That is a timing and location throw, you throw it to a specific spot on time and it's your receivers job to be where he needs to be and that was perfect.

There was another pass in the first half that was a go ball that I thought looked perfect while in the air that Morgan couldn't quite get to. Again, this seems like one where a better receiver fights through Jackson's physicality and get to where that ball was. Now I am not saying he was perfect by any means but I think Brandon Allen is a fine back up. Back ups in the NFL don't get much in the way of reps so it's important for them to be heady guys. Their main job is to get QB1 ready during the week and then be an extra set of eyes on the sideline. 

Bill Polian was once asked why they never invested more in a back up for Manning. His response was that if 18 goes down we are F'd and we don't prepare for F'd. In a way it's true. When you have a really high end QB1 he usually covers for blemishes on the roster that no back up can cover for anyways. 

No late round/UDFA rookie is going to do what you actually want QB2 to do and that is help QB1, so we do everything we can to help Joe and hope for the best. The team is actually built decently to go run heavy and hang their hat on the defense if Burrow has to miss a week or two. At that point you want Allen to be able to get them into the right plays with his eyes and head more so then go win with his arm.

I thought I was the only one that was NOT perplexed by his performance last night; I saw maybe 3 missed throws, but nothing egregious. And he had what, 2 turnover-worthy plays in 40 snaps or whatever?

As much as I like Plitt (I acknowledge he is just here for camp), he had 2 snaps and 1 of them was turnover-worthy.

I think the best contrast for Brandon Allen is to see his game against the Browns last year.

With Ja'Marr Chase: 2/2, 26 yards or whatever.
Without Ja'Marr Chase: 13/27, 110 yards, with being surrounded by ALL backups and playing the 1st string Cleveland D (save for Ward, who was out injured).

It's like the last game against Bmore in 2020; he gets a MASSIVE completion to Higgins (which was incorrectly overturned) and the Tee gets hurt. Who are his receivers for the rest of the game? An uncaring AJ and a hobbled Boyd who could barely walk 2 weeks prior and missed the game the previous week, which made Mike Thomas as the only healthy WR, that wasn't indifferent (and I know; Allen had a rough game, accuracy-wise).

If you removed that game, his 2020 numbers were:

84/121 (69.4%), 877 yards (7.2 YPA), 5 TD, 3 INT, good for a 93.8 Passer Rating.

I personally feel that ^^this^^ is the real Brandon Allen, a game manager that will not win the game for you (as he doesn't have any elite traits that he can sit back and rely on), but won't lose it either (as he takes care of the ball and doesn't put you in a position to lose).

Add to that, he is well-liked in the lockerroom, knows the system well, is great with the Xs and Os on the field and the sideline, you have the makings of a more-than worthy backup QB.

Last night was the identical sitch to Cleveland last year. Looking forward to seeing him against the Rams.

(08-22-2022, 03:06 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Allen provides zero chance to win IMO.

Still not laying off the bong?

(08-22-2022, 04:12 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Thaddeus Moss his blocking looks improved from last season. He is still a liability in the passing game though. He has improved but is it enough? With Sample hurt we may have to go with Moss or look elsewhere,

He is?

He had 1 target last night, got 9 yards and almost trucked 2 defenders to get the first down.

He was only 1 of 2 targets to TEs, last night (the other being Scotty Washington).

[*bfine32*]

(08-22-2022, 04:12 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Thaddeus Moss his blocking looks improved from last season. He is still a liability in the passing game though. He has improved but is  it enough? With Sample hurt we may have to go with Moss or look elsewhere,

Chris Evan hates Moss' blocking 

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2022, 04:12 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Thaddeus Moss his blocking looks improved from last season. He is still a liability in the passing game though. He has improved but is  it enough? With Sample hurt we may have to go with Moss or look elsewhere,

Be careful saying you think Moss's blocking looks improved after that cut block he did to Thibodeaux.
Quite a few national media think Moss did a dirty play.

[Tomkat]

(08-22-2022, 09:47 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Brandon Allen is not good. At all.
Most of the passes he was completing weren't going beyond 5 yards down the field.
Anything beyond that was inconsistent at best in regard to accuracy.

How does anyone EVEN MAKE IT TO THE NFL, while performing that badly?

[fredtoast]

(08-22-2022, 05:45 PM)Tomkat Wrote: How does anyone EVEN MAKE IT TO THE NFL, while performing that badly?

Brandon Allen posted an 82.0 passer rating over 176 attempts in '19 and '20 with the Bengals.  That is better than most back up QBs.

[NUGDUKWE]

(08-22-2022, 05:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Be careful saying you think Moss's blocking looks improved after that cut block he did to Thibodeaux.
Quite a few national media think Moss did a dirty play.

I saw Rich Eisen said he should be suspended. But after multiple players pointed out that's a legal play that players are taught he took it back. But still said he didn't understand why it was legal.

It's the same play you see RB's make every game against blitzing LBERS. The problem with the Moss play is even though he didn't have to go low as Thibodeaux wasn't coming in hot but was more that Thibodeaux needed to turn and face Moss to protect his knees. He tried to brace his shoulder like Moss was gonna give him a thump.

[Essex Johnson]

(08-22-2022, 10:42 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Ummmm, were we watching the same game? Allen was HORRIBLE last night. Only reason he didn't throw any INTs was he was throwing balls NO ONE could catch. Dude seriously needs to go play QB somewhere else.

disagree, the Oline killed most of any chance of a rhythm and he was under pressure alot....sure Allen some some  missed passes but couple were timing differences with Thomas, he also had some nice passes too finally when Oline  did not shot ourselves in the foot 2nd half, he had a solid drive.  I perfer a conservative veteran with a good offense than a rookie throwing into triple coverage , or against his body into middle of field which is what I saw of Browning last nite with presser..

He has yet to really play with 1st team last year and this preseason, hopefully they put some starters on the line for the Rams for him

[NUGDUKWE]

(08-22-2022, 05:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Brandon Allen posted an 82.0 passer rating over 176 attempts in '19 and '20 with the Bengals.  That is better than most back up QBs.

I don't really like Allen myself but I'm not trying to argue. I just can't remember. What game or games did Allen win?

[NUGDUKWE]

(08-22-2022, 03:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think Thomas was in the wrong on the one we just discussed and again in the same series where he broke off his route way too early on 3rd down... 

Yeah I think the real question here is how does Pryor and Lassiter come in and run better routes. Mike Thomas has been here for Taylor's entire tenure and he can't grasp what the heck he's supposed to be doing on the field. I get he's here for his special teams play but it would be nice if he could make some plays as well.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2022, 06:12 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't really like Allen myself but I'm not trying to argue. I just can't remember. What game or games did Allen win?

Brandon Allen is 1-5 as a Bengal.
His only win was against the 4-12 Texans in 2020.
It was an offensive shootout 37-31.

The only wins those Texans had that year were against the 1-15 Jags (twice), the 5-11 Lions, and the 7-9 Patriots.