7 Winners & 3 Losers From Week 2 Against The Giants

[bengals1969]

(08-22-2022, 12:15 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I think it's another Drew Sample sitch; people are angry ever since Carman was picked, that anything and I mean ANYTHING he does negatively, people waste no time piling on and shitting on the guy, while Volson gets unlimited praise and love, simply because he's the guy in competition with Carman.

I HATE this attitude and POV: granted, Carman has some other baggage, but the guy actually flashed at times last year and isn't a total write-off.

I just want the best player to be the starter, but having to disparage someone just because you don't like them and puff up the guy in direct competition with them, just smacks of unfairness.

Volson had a great first half until the last drive, where he looked awful. Then he had a so-so 3rd Q, with some decent run blocking, until he fell apart completely in the 4th, only really having a standout play on the Patrick TD. Just last week, he was having people cream their pants over how well he played, many completely disregarding that he was playing against 4th stringers (the media did this, each and every outlet). When Zac was non-committal on the LG position and said that Volson has some things to clean up, people threw up their arms all angry and confused, media included. When a guy has COVID and can't play as a result, the narrative shifted to, "oh yeah, Volson has it in the bag now, he's the front-runner for the position."

After last night, NEITHER guy is a front-runner for the LG position and that's a fact. But the media and big-time fans were all, "Volson played an outstanding game!" I'm not on Carman's side, nor am I against Volson; I come at this as a 3rd party, with wanting the best person to make it and after 2 PS games, it may be a better option to either bring someone off the street or (as much as people hate it), platoon the two until one shows out the most.

As I, Ocho and Whatever have posted for the past week+, Volson is great and anchoring and stopping the bullrush, while his drive blocking is also good.

Other than that (moving laterally, pass-rush moves outside of bullrushing, pulling, blocking on angles, assignments, etc.), he has looked every part the rookie from a FCS school (albeit the best FCS school). Both need to play with the 1s before any decision is made, as communication was also a problem last week (didn't seem like a problem yesterday though), but people aren't calling this battle fair down the line.

I’m with you, I don’t care who starts, I just want a good player at LG.
If Volson had been pulled at half time, we’d all be saying he’s the next coming of Max Montoya.
So we find out he got gassed by the end of the game. So? That’s just more conditioning. I bet our starters would be gassed too at this stage.

He made some mental errors. So? That’s a good thing at this stage. By all accounts he learns from his mistakes.

He showed he can compete with 1’s, he’s got a higher ceiling, he is an asset to the Oline. I hope Carman rises to the occasion this week and next and blows Volson out of there. Or visa versa.

[The D.O.Z.]

(08-22-2022, 01:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I saw him go 29-37 (78.4%) for 371 yards, 2 tds, and 0 interceptions against the Texans.

My bad. I forgot to mention:

“Amongst all these ‘intangibles’ he CAN luck into a decent game once every blood moon.”

[007BengalsFan]

(08-22-2022, 10:49 AM)Joelist Wrote: It's interesting how our forum perceptions differ from sports media. So far every media (CincyJungle, Locked On Bengals, Rapien, Goodberry, etc.) I saw about the game were a lot more bullish on Volson than some in this forum. Not saying one is right and the other wrong but interesting to see the difference.

If Volson plays like he did against the Giants in every game this season, he would end up with 17+ sacks allowed and even more penalties.  He played well at times but still had a lot of mistakes.

[Housh]

(08-22-2022, 08:27 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Winner: Dax Hill.... Big time

Loser: Jessie Bates.... Whatever smidgen of leverage he thought he had continues to dissapear further and further into an abyss from which there is no return.

Winner Runner-Up: Von Bell.... Who is looking like the S who should get an extension at this point.

This has really been worse case scenario for Bates. I would really love to know the deal we had on the table that Bates declined early in the off-season .


Rumors were saying it was 14 per which is too low. But I’m not sure if that figure was ever verified by anyone

[*PhilHos*]

(08-22-2022, 12:46 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I don't agree with the premise of your question. Allen had to have won the job in order to have it in the first place. This is Browning's second year on the team, so the coaches know what he brings. Plitt was an unknown, but it is also obvious that he hasn't brought enough to provide a shake up. The coaches are going to be looking for any competitive advantage they can get. If Browning or Plitt were putting on quality performances in practice, Allen's job would be in jeopardy. The fact that the reports are along the lines you stated should tell you that neither guy is good enough to challenge Allen. 

In short, he is "given" the job because neither guy is good enough to take it from him. He's winning the job. If there is a clear upgrade, I am all for bringing them in. 

I get what you're saying, but it HAS to be clear to the coaching staff that Brandon Allen is not the answer at backup QB. Considering that if Allen becomes the starter due to a Burrow injury, we're not winning most of those games anyway, might as well give a guy like Plitt a shot. I'd rather take a chance with a guy that we MIGHT lose with vs a guy we KNOW we'll lose with. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2022, 09:49 AM)Nepa Wrote: I agree with all these points. Taylor seems have very sure hands. I don't know how he does on blocking downfield (the good WRs can all block), but he seems to catch everything thrown near him.

I thought Lassiter hurt his case when he dropped a wide open, easy pass in the end zone. When you are a free agent on a team rich in WR talent, you don't have much room for error. But he likely will be playing somewhere if not the Bengals.

Trent Taylor is solid and he is a damn good ST's player. I think he has earned his spot with the effort he gave last night.

Yes, the TD drop definitely hurt Lassiter, still like him for the PS.

(08-22-2022, 10:08 AM)Sled21 Wrote: When I watch a pre-season game, the last thing I'm concerned about is the scoreboard. Who cares? I want to watch specific players and don't care one iota about the score. 

Brandon Allen just needs to go. He can't hit his receivers at all. I was thinking "well maybe it's because he's playing with the bad receivers, then Browning and Plitt come in and start taking things downfield. To my eye test, both Browning and Plitt are playing better than Allen. They gave Allen extra reps at the start of the 2nd half to "further evaluate" him, I hope that means they are having doubts about him. 

Same way I watch a preseason game, we are just evaluating the bottom of the roster.

Allen isn't even competing with Browning and Plitt from what I saw last night. Damn he was bad, even on the Taylor sideline
catch it was overthrown and Taylor had to make a great adjustment to bring it in and it dang near almost wasn't a catch even
then cause of Allen's poor throw.

When they put in Plitt just a couple times I think the coaches just wanted him to throw an incompletion and get him out of 
there cause they want this guy on the PS and to not get plucked off.

(08-22-2022, 10:44 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Oh, I hope this is true.

I get the desire of having a competent, veteran backup in case of a Burrow injury, but Allen is anything but competitive. If he sees the field due to a Burrow injury, we ain't winning the game. and if we ain't winning the game with Allen, might as well give Plitt a chance to see if he can grow into a competent backup QB (or more).

Exactly, I think this is the plan with Plitt. 

[Sled21]

(08-22-2022, 11:09 AM)bfine32 Wrote: LOSER: Whoever decided not to plat starters but left Dax out there all night.

Huge difference between veteran starters and rookie starters.

[casear2727]

(08-22-2022, 12:24 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Did you see B Allen back shoulder throw that was 5 to 10 yards short on the sideline and he started pointing at the WR like it was his fault.

Allen mouthed "its a comeback" or something of the sort, it is impossible to know what the screwup was... there are many other passes to be concerned about with BA though.

[fredtoast]

(08-22-2022, 01:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: When they put in Plitt just a couple times I think the coaches just wanted him to throw an incompletion and get him out of 
there cause they want this guy on the PS and to not get plucked off.

He was an undrafted free agent who tried out for a bunch of different teams before the Bengals signed him.

There is absolutely zero chance any team will give Plitt a spot on their active roster in order to get him off our practice squad.  The only think more useless than an undrafted rookie QB is an undrafted rookie QB who missed all of your training camp.

[casear2727]

(08-22-2022, 12:30 PM)BengalsBong Wrote:  I get it we do not want these special team's kickers to get hurt but you do not want to take the fight out of the dog. Chrisman had a real nice tackle on the sideline and beat two other special team's tacklers to the guy. This guy wants a punters job badly.

I dont want Evan to tackle anyone in a real game, much less preseason.  He will not be fighting for a job for many years.

[Sled21]

(08-22-2022, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We need a nobody out there during these games. PKs don't need Game Reps, we're just subjecting Shooter to injury.

I remember there used to be a kicker for the Chargers; who when he kicked he immediately ran off the field. I think his name was Rolf Somebody

EDIT: just looked in up he was Rolf Benirschke. He had a medical condition that required a colectomy.

If Shooter wasn't kicking in a pre-season game, he'd be kicking in practice, so what's the difference. His streak could not have gone on forever, so he missed last night and can start it all over again.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2022, 01:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He was an undrafted free agent who tried out for a bunch of different teams before the Bengals signed him.

There is absolutely zero chance any team will give Plitt a spot on their active roster in order to get him off our practice squad.  The only think more useless than an undrafted rookie QB is an undrafted rookie QB who missed all of your training camp.

Cool, I want him on the PS. Even his one incompletion looked like it was a drop from the Receiver.

I like Plitt's accuracy out of the pocket.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2022, 12:05 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: He is physical and strong enough to stand up to bull rushes and can drive block that is the hard part and what we have been missing with O-linemen drafts for a while now. I know we got J Williams, and he is decent. Now we just need Volson to get reps, so he is used to all the stunts and twists, so he is aware of what's coming and not surprised by it.

(08-22-2022, 12:07 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: This is what I seen he had a pocket to throw from most of the first half and that is why his 65 yards passing was so pathetic.

(08-22-2022, 12:12 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: We cannot go back to the standards of Marvin Lewis and expect our QB to not lose the game for us. We are in a new place with a new higher floor our QB must be able to get yards and touchdowns {on throws not handing it off}.

I don't know who is thumbing down your posts here BengalsBong, is Brandon Allen on here? Lol

[*bfine32*]

(08-22-2022, 01:48 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Huge difference between veteran starters and rookie starters.

Sure is. Also a big difference between an oline with chemistry and one where the majority have never taken a game snap together. No issue with Dax getting some snaps to start the game, but when it's insurance salesman time; give him his respect. 

[Joelist]

(08-22-2022, 01:28 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If Volson plays like he did against the Giants in every game this season, he would end up with 17+ sacks allowed and even more penalties.  He played well at times but still had a lot of mistakes.

You do realize that the sack was a freak occurrence which with experience will abate abd the flag he drew was arguably not him (even the announcers felt it was more Adeniji and Hill). 

[Whatever]

(08-22-2022, 01:48 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Allen mouthed "its a comeback" or something of the sort, it is impossible to know what the screwup was... there are many other passes to be concerned about with BA though.

It's tough to evaluate the QB's simply because the protection was so bad.  The Bengals allowed 16 pressures on 39 pass blocking snaps per PFF.  That's a 41% pressure rate.  Burrow face a pressure rate of like 24% last year iirc.  

[Au165]

(08-22-2022, 01:48 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Allen mouthed "its a comeback" or something of the sort, it is impossible to know what the screwup was... there are many other passes to be concerned about with BA though.

Correct, It's a sight adjustment and the Corner was on top so you break it off at 12-15 and comeback. 

Brandon Allen actually looked good to me last night which is why this is funny. When playing with back up receivers it's hard because where your starters end up on plays versus backups can be a lot different. The slot fade to Taylor was a really good ball as was placed right where you want it. The big difference is Taylor is 5-8 vs 6 foot + so to most our receivers the ball is right in front of their outstretched arms. That is a timing and location throw, you throw it to a specific spot on time and it's your receivers job to be where he needs to be and that was perfect.

There was another pass in the first half that was a go ball that I thought looked perfect while in the air that Morgan couldn't quite get to. Again, this seems like one where a better receiver fights through Jackson's physicality and get to where that ball was. Now I am not saying he was perfect by any means but I think Brandon Allen is a fine back up. Back ups in the NFL don't get much in the way of reps so it's important for them to be heady guys. Their main job is to get QB1 ready during the week and then be an extra set of eyes on the sideline. 

Bill Polian was once asked why they never invested more in a back up for Manning. His response was that if 18 goes down we are F'd and we don't prepare for F'd. In a way it's true. When you have a really high end QB1 he usually covers for blemishes on the roster that no back up can cover for anyways. 

No late round/UDFA rookie is going to do what you actually want QB2 to do and that is help QB1, so we do everything we can to help Joe and hope for the best. The team is actually built decently to go run heavy and hang their hat on the defense if Burrow has to miss a week or two. At that point you want Allen to be able to get them into the right plays with his eyes and head more so then go win with his arm.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2022, 01:20 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I’m with you, I don’t care who starts, I just want a good player at LG.
If Volson had been pulled at half time, we’d all be saying he’s the next coming of Max Montoya.
So we find out he got gassed by the end of the game. So?  That’s just more conditioning. I bet our starters would be gassed too at this stage.

He made some mental errors. So? That’s a good thing at this stage. By all accounts he learns from his mistakes.

He showed he can compete with 1’s, he’s got a higher ceiling, he is an asset to the Oline.  I hope Carman rises to the occasion this week and next and blows Volson out of there. Or visa versa.

Volson made quite a few mistakes before halftime, FWIW.

I think people are optimistic about Volson long-term based on what they've seen so far, but I don't know how anyone can say with confidence LG is solid-or-better going into Week 1 based on what they've seen from Volson and Carman.

[KillerGoose]

(08-22-2022, 01:38 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I get what you're saying, but it HAS to be clear to the coaching staff that Brandon Allen is not the answer at backup QB. Considering that if Allen becomes the starter due to a Burrow injury, we're not winning most of those games anyway, might as well give a guy like Plitt a shot. I'd rather take a chance with a guy that we MIGHT lose with vs a guy we KNOW we'll lose with. 

If a clear upgrade is available, then yeah, I'm sure they'd go with him. The problem is that there isn't a clear upgrade. As far as Plitt vs. Allen, Allen certainly gives Cincinnati a better chance to win. You are saying "might" because he is an unknown, but he is undoubtedly worse than Allen. Allen knows the offense and provides an okay chance to win. That's about all you can ask for. 

[BengalsBong]

Allen provides zero chance to win IMO.