A Shout Out to P&R'ers

[Bengalzona]

I had to drive up and do some work in the forest land along the Mogollon Rim today. Long drive: 5 hours there, 5 back. With this area being heavily populated with Mormons, there isn't much to listen to on the radio unless you like Fox News or Donnie and Marie Osmond.

I opted for Fox News.

While I was listening to Fox News, I couldn't help but think about how one-sided the broadcasts were. But that is nothing unique with most news broadcasts today. We live in the "Pick the News You Like" Era. It doesn't matter what your politics are. News is entertainment and you pick and choose what you like anymore.

If you are wondering why I'm mentioning all of this, I actually do have a point. While I was thinking about how insulated a person can make themselves with their political views today (regardless of what those views are), a realization dawned on me. We have people who contribute in our P&R section who are willing to expose themselves to different views. Yes, it does lead to arguments sometimes. But it seems to me, that that is a rare and worthwhile thing. In this "pick-and-choose" age of media, you all have picked and chose to leave the comfortable confines of media persons saying what you want to hear to venture into the arena of multiple ideas.

That, IMO, deserves a positive callout and a pat on the back. Good job guys! :andy:

Post something positive in here about our board and P&R group and I'll rep you (1 per customer... and it needs to be something positive, which might be a challenge for some... )

[GMDino]

(11-21-2016, 11:49 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I had to drive up and do some work in the forest land along the Mogollon Rim today. Long drive: 5 hours there, 5 back. With this area being heavily populated with Mormons, there isn't much to listen to on the radio unless you like Fox News or Donnie and Marie Osmond.

I opted for Fox News.

While I was listening to Fox News, I couldn't help but think about how one-sided the broadcasts were. But that is nothing unique with most news broadcasts today. We live in the "Pick the News You Like" Era. It doesn't matter what your politics are. News is entertainment and you pick and choose what you like anymore.

If you are wondering why I'm mentioning all of this, I actually do have a point. While I was thinking about how insulated a person can make themselves with their political views today (regardless of what those views are), a realization dawned on me. We have people who contribute in our P&R section who are willing to expose themselves to different views. Yes, it does lead to arguments sometimes. But it seems to me, that that is a rare and worthwhile thing. In this "pick-and-choose" age of media, you all have picked and chose to leave the comfortable confines of media persons saying what you want to hear to venture into the arena of multiple ideas.

That, IMO, deserves a positive callout and a pat on the back. Good job guys! :andy:

Post something positive in here about our board and P&R group and I'll rep you (1 per customer... and it needs to be something positive, which might be a challenge for some... )

I couldn't agree more.

But there's another reason I prefer to come her to "discuss" politics.

It's probably saved many friendships in the real world!  I don't "know" anyone on the boards anymore.  (I did know one member on the old board and am still friends with him.) But here we can be open and honest and even though there can be hurt feelings and the occasional bad blood in the end I think I may have agreed with every person on at least one thing.  Heck I gave Lucy rep for something a couple times!

In the end it IS about bringing ideas and challenging them.  And this has been a good place for it.

Like I said I do not know any of you personally, but after 11 years hanging around the Bengals boards I feel like I do know you.  If that makes any sense.

[Vas Deferens]

My standpoint on several issues have been informed by some on these boards I would not normally come in contact with, at the very least they've taken a router and eased my corners on the stance a bit.

I'm much more gun rights than I once was (roto, 6&, SSF) and think people should be able to sell or not sell whatever fruity cakes they wish to some extent (dfine).

All in all I just pop by to get my bp up and get the juices flowin once in a while.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Sheet there's all kinds of fun things to read about here and some one to argue with makes it better.
FB arguing is annoying cause relatives get pissed and it makes for awkward moments at family gatherings.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

Oddly enough I do like coming here to get enough I do enjoy coming here to see an unfiltered opinion. I don't really hate anyone hear. With a few exceptions I think a lot here fall center left or center right. Most are just trying to make it in the world and enjoy friends and families. Anyway hope everyone enjoys the holiday's coming up.

[Belsnickel]

(11-22-2016, 01:19 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Sheet there's all kinds of fun things to read about here and some one to argue with makes it better.
FB arguing is annoying cause relatives get pissed and it makes for awkward moments at family gatherings.

Ain't that the truth. My wife and I can discuss things because even if we disagree, we are both nformed enough to know it is a matter of philosophical differences. Beyond that, I can't talk aout these things wih others I know.

For most, they are the typical "uninformed stalwarts" (I'm trademarking that term, FYI) that don't really understand the issues but are stubbornly for a person or policy they have done zero research on. We all know these people, they are everywhere.

Then there are the ones I know that are political scientists (my office is next to the building poli sci is in, so we interact a lot) and talking about this stuff with them is interesting, but goes way over my had sometimes.

So this leaves me to come here. For the most part, people on here are actively seeking out political information. We may not agree with where they get it or with the content itself, but that's what our "discussions" are for. People on here tend to know what is going on, and some even get it from different sources. I follow both GOP and Dem folks and organizations on Twitter, but they aren't as responsive when I contradict them.

One thing is for certain, we have four years of some interesting discussions ahead, and you can't blame us Dm leaning folks for it!

[6andcounting]

(11-21-2016, 11:49 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Post something positive in here about our board and P&R group and I'll rep you (1 per customer... and it needs to be something positive, which might be a challenge for some... )

Everyone here really took the results of the election in stride. Round of applause. 

[GMDino]

(11-22-2016, 10:39 AM)6andcounting Wrote: Everyone here really took the results of the election in stride. Round of applause. 

Not to derail this too much, but...

I was at dinner last Friday with my old college roommate and another guy we graduated with that he grew up with.  They are both Republican.  One fiscal the other fiscal and social.  And we had the nicest conversation about the election.  We all feel relieved it is over.  How we feel about things going forward aren't as in tune, but it was still a pleasant conversation compared to the way it was with people before the results.

[BengalHawk62]

I enjoy reading all of your posts, both sides of the argument and following along.  I don't normally jump into these discussions because I don't bring much to the table, but I really do enjoy the back and forth banter as long as it doesn't get personal.  Sometimes I'm usually good for a couple of one-liners but that's about it.  Keep up the good work and open dialogue, its what keeps places like this open.  Some days I don't know what I would do without the message board.  Thank you!

[6andcounting]

I know when the old board was getting shut down one of the things I said I was most disappointing about was losing P&R. It was the only place I knew of on the internet that had people come together with different views and still get along. Plus it's not like a chat board where you fight with someone once and never here of them again. We are the same people here every day so regardless of how obtuse someone can be we know that are still a largely reasonable and good person. Plus we all know a couple little tidbits about each others personal lives so there is some connection there as well.

[Bengalzona]

(11-22-2016, 01:08 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: My standpoint on several issues have been informed by some on these boards I would not normally come in contact with, at the very least they've taken a router and eased my corners on the stance a bit. 

Even if a person is totally entrenched in a viewpoint, the act of engaging with others with an opposing viewpoint helps define that view and aids in presenting your argument. You can't really argue an opinion when you have no idea what the opposing opinion really is.

(11-22-2016, 01:19 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Sheet there's all kinds of fun things to read about here and some one to argue with makes it better.
FB arguing is annoying cause relatives get pissed and it makes for awkward moments at family gatherings.

Yeah. They were talking in a Fox radio news story about handling political arguments at Thanksgiving yesterday.

(11-22-2016, 03:16 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Oddly enough I do like coming here to get enough I do enjoy coming here to see an unfiltered opinion.  I don't really hate anyone hear.  With a few exceptions I think a lot here fall center left or center right.  Most are just trying to make it in the world and enjoy friends and families.  Anyway hope everyone enjoys the holiday's coming up.

I suspect people naturally gravitate more to the center.

(11-22-2016, 09:07 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Ain't that the truth. My wife and I can discuss things because even if we disagree, we are both nformed enough to know it is a matter of philosophical differences. Beyond that, I can't talk aout these things wih others I know.

For most, they are the typical "uninformed stalwarts" (I'm trademarking that term, FYI) that don't really understand the issues but are stubbornly for a person or policy they have done zero research on. We all know these people, they are everywhere.

Then there are the ones I know that are political scientists (my office is next to the building poli sci is in, so we interact a lot) and talking about this stuff with them is interesting, but goes way over my had sometimes.

So this leaves me to come here. For the most part, people on here are actively seeking out political information. We may not agree with where they get it or with the content itself, but that's what our "discussions" are for. People on here tend to know what is going on, and some even get it from different sources. I follow both GOP and Dem folks and organizations on Twitter, but they aren't as responsive when I contradict them.

One thing is for certain, we have four years of some interesting discussions ahead, and you can't blame us Dm leaning folks for it!

I think we provide a unique and 'safe' place for people to express their political opinions. We don't mod political opinions. It is all about how you treat others in expressing your opinions.

(Note: Racism is not considered a political opinion here. That falls into the 'not treating others well' category.)

[Bengalzona]

(11-22-2016, 10:49 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: I enjoy reading all of your posts, both sides of the argument and following along.  I don't normally jump into these discussions because I don't bring much to the table, but I really do enjoy the back and forth banter as long as it doesn't get personal.  Sometimes I'm usually good for a couple of one-liners but that's about it.  Keep up the good work and open dialogue, its what keeps places like this open.  Some days I don't know what I would do without the message board.  Thank you!

(11-22-2016, 10:57 AM)6andcounting Wrote: I know when the old board was getting shut down one of the things I said I was most disappointing about was losing P&R. It was the only place I knew of on the internet that had people come together with different views and still get along. Plus it's not like a chat board where you fight with someone once and never here of them again. We are the same people here every day so regardless of how obtuse someone can be we know that are still a largely reasonable and good person. Plus we all know a couple little tidbits about each others personal lives so there is some connection there as well.

With all of the AFCN teams having less than satisfactory seasons, it's nice that we also have this place as a diversion, eh.

[*bfine32*]

I enjoy coming in here and being the conservative. as in my circles I am the liberal one. Many liberal views expressed by counter-pointers in here are often mentioned in real-world conversation with friends, relatives, and peers.

I also appreciate how most (unfortunately, not all) can leave the "coat checked at the door". Someone might call another a hateful bigot in this forum and then be in another forum sharing advice on car maintenance.

[masterpanthera_t]

I come here to hear different opinions and to read articles posted, which I would be too lazy to search out myself. While there are plenty of times I've walked away from reading certain threads because I thought people were just hijacking threads ( and especially frustrated when threads were hijacked with bickering and pettiness), for the most part I've found this forum to be very entertaining and a very good aggregation of various topics that I haven't found anywhere.

[6andcounting]

(11-22-2016, 11:04 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: With all of the AFCN teams having less than satisfactory seasons, it's nice that we also have this place as a diversion, eh.

I mean the Steelers will still be playing this season with trump as president or at least pretty close to that day so yeah

[Millhouse]

(11-22-2016, 11:04 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: With all of the AFCN teams having less than satisfactory seasons, it's nice that we also have this place as a diversion, eh.

Ironically I have posted more in the Noise section more than ever lately as a diversion from p&r. Guess the spamming of anti-Trump threads got old quickly. Not that I am a fan of his, but might as well call this the MSNBC forum. 

Oh well it was fun while it lasted before the election. See ya in the other looney bin aka the Noise. 

[xxlt]

Politicians get crap about waffling all the time, and they should. But, sometimes people do grow and change. And, sometimes politicians really do "evolve" which was the term someone coined to put a different frame on "waffling." True waffling - just pandering to whomever the audience is, is b.c. But saying, "Hey, I thought x for a long time, but now I think y, and here's why (and y)" is praiseworthy. That is genuine evolution. And, I think a cross section of our P&R members are open minded enough that they can and do evolve in their positions, often more quickly than politicians do.
Kudos to those members.

There never really can be objective media coverage, but as the OP points out, most news outlets nowadays don't even make the slightest charade of an effort to pretend they are being objective. As Jackson Browne wrote decades ago:

They sell us the president, the same way
They sell us our clothes, and our cars
They sell us everything, from youth to religion
The same time they sell us our wars

Man was JB prophetic, but I digress...

So getting fact based news today is really a challenge. But who knows, maybe we will get a "rebirth" of legitimate (as objective as possible in reporting facts and with editorial clearly identified as opinion) news media. Many people seem to be clamoring for it, and stranger things have happened.

That said, I will tip my hat to The Nation, which declares its bias instead of pretending to be objective ala Fox News. The Nation's tagline, for those who don't know, is "that famous liberal media bias that you can't find anywhere else!" Kudos to them for owning their perspective rather than pretending not to have one. And I will tip my hat to facts, which have a well-known liberal bias.

A final tip of the hat to those who enter P&R with an open and active mind. Cheers!

[Benton]

I've always admired how moderate the voices here are. Sure, there's some extreme on both sides, but most people discuss the issues with passion more than partisanship. Which is pretty much the opposite of half the conversations I'm forced to have on a daily basis.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-22-2016, 10:58 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Yeah. They were talking in a Fox radio news story about handling political arguments at Thanksgiving yesterday.


I suspect people naturally gravitate more to the center.

Ah the joy of being more or less a Libertarian. I didn't really have a dog in the Trump/Clinton race, so I can sit back with a beer and some pumpkin roll and listen to staunch Republicans and extreme Liberals as entertainment rather than getting fired up. Plus for the first time in what feels like a long time, there's some good football on. Cowboys/Redskins are both good teams, and Lions/Vikings are also both good teams and the game will decide who is leading that division. When's the last time we saw 4 winning teams play on Thanksgiving?
 



Yeah, I think a good amount gravitate to the center, but definitely not all.

[treee]

I enjoy P&R but it can be frustrating. Seeing all of these people who hold elements of their beliefs that fundamentally make sense, yet are colliding over small details make me shake my head sometimes. I do feel like we have a wide range of viewpoints here though, compared to some social circles. Definitely something to be appreciative of, in the right context.