Another mass shooting

[*pally*]

(04-10-2023, 04:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote:
Car accidents kill far more people than guns each year in the US and in the world.

Should be ban automobiles also since they are the weapon of death? I lost a very good friend when I was 15, I was in the vehicle also when a maniac going over 100 MPH struck our vehicle while running a stop sign. Our car ended up over 100 yards away from initial impact.

I learned that day it is people who kill other people, they will find a weapon regardless of any law or ban.

And you know what they have done with autombiles through the years because they are dangerous.

1) required the use of seatbelts
2) required the use of car seats for children
3) changed the materials cars are made out of
4) changed designs so cars are more crash resistant
5) added air bags
6) instituted speed limits
7) changed safety barrier and road design


Additionally, to even drive a car
1) a driver has a temporary license with major limitations
2) many hours of classroom and instructor traning
3) both driving and a law written test required
4) liability insurance

Yeah, cars are dangerous but their design and use are regulated.  Their drivers have training and liability requirements  And if there is a flaw in the car design the manufacturer can be sued.  

Lets regulate guns the way we do cars

[Lucidus]

(04-10-2023, 05:39 PM)pally Wrote: And you know what they have done with autombiles through the years because they are dangerous.

1) required the use of seatbelts
2) required the use of car seats for children
3) changed the materials cars are made out of
4) changed designs so cars are more crash resistant
5) added air bags
6) instituted speed limits
7) changed safety barrier and road design


Additionally, to even drive a car
1) a driver has a temporary license with major limitations
2) many hours of classroom and instructor traning
3) both driving and a law written test required
4) liability insurance

Yeah, cars are dangerous but their design and use are regulated.  Their drivers have training and liability requirements  And if there is a flaw in the car design the manufacturer can be sued.  

Lets regulate guns the way we do cars

I've offered these points on this board before, and in everyday conversations with people I know and interact with. It's almost always met with vigorous opposition. Even the notion of a minimum testing requirement is usually scoffed at as if it would be an unimaginable violation of personal sovereignty. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-10-2023, 04:58 PM)GMDino Wrote: I was always curious as a non-hunter what one hunts with an AR-15.

My dad used a rifle.  Most people I know used a rifle.

So, being a Pennsylvanian you are not afforded the opportunities to hunt with the AR platform as some in other states are as you cannot hunt with a semi-automatic. First off, most ARs are rifles. Some are nominally pistols, but that is a whole other political debate I won't get into.

Anyway, AR stands for ArmaLite, the company that first came up with the platform. The more appropriate, generic name for the platform is the modern sporting rifle, or MSR, which the NSSF coined in 2009. But, since we have been using AR for so long no one really knows this more proper name we have a Wite Out, Kleenex, or Xerox situation. Plus, certain folks like to use AR because they think it means assault rifle. It does not.

Anyway, most people may not realize that the first AR was actually the AR-10, which chambers a .308 or 7.62 NATO cartridge. This is a beefier boy and is actually used for hunting big game in some instances. Here on the east coast (if your state doesn't outlaw it) this can be a decent rifle to use for bear of deer because the .308 cartridge is an outstanding choice in the eastern woodlands. It is my cartridge of choice for a reason. I don't own an AR-10 but if I did I would not hesitate to use it in a hunt. I just grew up hunting in PA where you can't use such things so I am a bit of a traditionalist and prefer a bolt-action.

Now, the AR-15 is used a lot in predator control. Coyotes primarily, but other varmints can be tagged with it as well. I have also seen them used for wild hogs. Either in 5.56 or .300 AAC it is a popular choice for taking these animals out. Plus it is just fun as hell to shoot and the ammo isn't ridiculous. Plus, when you shoot primarily NATO cartridges (5.56, 7.62, and 9mm) when there are ammunition shortages you will see your stuff on the shelves first.

[BigPapaKain]

(04-10-2023, 05:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, being a Pennsylvanian you are not afforded the opportunities to hunt with the AR platform as some in other states are as you cannot hunt with a semi-automatic. First off, most ARs are rifles. Some are nominally pistols, but that is a whole other political debate I won't get into.

Anyway, AR stands for ArmaLite, the company that first came up with the platform. The more appropriate, generic name for the platform is the modern sporting rifle, or MSR, which the NSSF coined in 2009. But, since we have been using AR for so long no one really knows this more proper name we have a Wite Out, Kleenex, or Xerox situation. Plus, certain folks like to use AR because they think it means assault rifle. It does not.

Anyway, most people may not realize that the first AR was actually the AR-10, which chambers a .308 or 7.62 NATO cartridge. This is a beefier boy and is actually used for hunting big game in some instances. Here on the east coast (if your state doesn't outlaw it) this can be a decent rifle to use for bear of deer because the .308 cartridge is an outstanding choice in the eastern woodlands. It is my cartridge of choice for a reason. I don't own an AR-10 but if I did I would not hesitate to use it in a hunt. I just grew up hunting in PA where you can't use such things so I am a bit of a traditionalist and prefer a bolt-action.

Now, the AR-15 is used a lot in predator control. Coyotes primarily, but other varmints can be tagged with it as well. I have also seen them used for wild hogs. Either in 5.56 or .300 AAC it is a popular choice for taking these animals out. Plus it is just fun as hell to shoot and the ammo isn't ridiculous. Plus, when you shoot primarily NATO cartridges (5.56, 7.62, and 9mm) when there are ammunition shortages you will see your stuff on the shelves first.

You are absolutely correct across the board.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(04-10-2023, 04:14 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Most people don't use Fentanyl for sport, self-defense, or hunting. 

If you need an AR-15 to go hunting, then you need to buy your meat from Kroger b/c you're a horrible shot.  I'm a gun owner and I deer hunt with a 12-gauge, rabbit hunt with a 410-single shot and I make a ton of hasenpfeffer in the fall.  The most effective for home self-defense is a semi-auto pistol and a shotgun (E.g.s 9mm and .357 and 12-gauge w/ 00 double-ot buckshot.)  An AR-15 round won't go through a solid oak door these others will. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-10-2023, 07:10 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: If you need an AR-15 to go hunting, then you need to buy your meat from Kroger b/c you're a horrible shot.  I'm a gun own and I deer hunt with a 12-gauge, rabbit hunt with a 410-single shot and I make a ton of hasenpfeffer in the fall.  The most effective for home self-defense is a semi-auto pistole and 12-gauge w/ 00 double-ot buckshot.  

You ever done a hog or coyote hunt? I use a bolt-action .308 most of the time for deer and bear, but I'll be damned if I am going to try to go after a hog or 'yote with a bolt gun. I don't disagree on home defense. I have a Remington 870 and a Glock 17 as my "bump in the night" gear, but I also have an AR that absolutely has its place.

I am a firm believer that if you are willing to own firearms, you should own at least five for a shit-hits-the-fan situation. These five are: a solid semi-automatic .22 LR (such as a Ruger 10/22) for practice and small game; a 12 ga. pump action shotgun (semi-auto shotguns require more maintenance if you are thinking of a SHTF setup); a polymer-frame common caliber pistol such as a Glock 17/19 (the availability of spare parts and 9mm ammunition is insane); a solid medium-to-long range bolt action rifle (many options out there in many calibers, I would go with .308 for previously mentions reasons, but that's me); and an AR platform rifle with a 16" barrel. All of these are geared towards the ability to repair them, customize them, find ammunition, etc. You can train with all five of these for relatively low costs and therefore be very comfortable with them.

But this is just my thinking when it comes to society breaking down. With those five you can protect and feed yourself and your family.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(04-10-2023, 07:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You ever done a hog or coyote hunt? I use a bolt-action .308 most of the time for deer and bear, but I'll be damned if I am going to try to go after a hog or 'yote with a bolt gun. I don't disagree on home defense. I have a Remington 870 and a Glock 17 as my "bump in the night" gear, but I also have an AR that absolutely has its place.

I am a firm believer that if you are willing to own firearms, you should own at least five for a shit-hits-the-fan situation. These five are: a solid semi-automatic .22 LR (such as a Ruger 10/22) for practice and small game; a 12 ga. pump action shotgun (semi-auto shotguns require more maintenance if you are thinking of a SHTF setup); a polymer-frame common caliber pistol such as a Glock 17/19 (the availability of spare parts and 9mm ammunition is insane); a solid medium-to-long range bolt action rifle (many options out there in many calibers, I would go with .308 for previously mentions reasons, but that's me); and an AR platform rifle with a 16" barrel. All of these are geared towards the ability to repair them, customize them, find ammunition, etc. You can train with all five of these for relatively low costs and therefore be very comfortable with them.

But this is just my thinking when it comes to society breaking down. With those five you can protect and feed yourself and your family.

I have a Springfield 30-06 bolt action for the big game, and I used it in a moose hunt in Newfoundland, CA.  Mossberg 12-ga pump for pheasant, duck and deer and that thing will blow a basketball size hole through a sold oak door. 

[HarleyDog]

(04-10-2023, 07:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You ever done a hog or coyote hunt? I use a bolt-action .308 most of the time for deer and bear, but I'll be damned if I am going to try to go after a hog or 'yote with a bolt gun. I don't disagree on home defense. I have a Remington 870 and a Glock 17 as my "bump in the night" gear, but I also have an AR that absolutely has its place.

I am a firm believer that if you are willing to own firearms, you should own at least five for a shit-hits-the-fan situation. These five are: a solid semi-automatic .22 LR (such as a Ruger 10/22) for practice and small game; a 12 ga. pump action shotgun (semi-auto shotguns require more maintenance if you are thinking of a SHTF setup); a polymer-frame common caliber pistol such as a Glock 17/19 (the availability of spare parts and 9mm ammunition is insane); a solid medium-to-long range bolt action rifle (many options out there in many calibers, I would go with .308 for previously mentions reasons, but that's me); and an AR platform rifle with a 16" barrel. All of these are geared towards the ability to repair them, customize them, find ammunition, etc. You can train with all five of these for relatively low costs and therefore be very comfortable with them.

But this is just my thinking when it comes to society breaking down. With those five you can protect and feed yourself and your family.

12 ga. Would work great in a zombie apocalypse too.

[Belsnickel]

(04-10-2023, 07:56 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: 12 ga. Would work great in a zombie apocalypse too.

100%, though all of those would. I mean, you could run a .22 in a zombie apocalypse, too, and make it work. That being said, I am also an archer, so I have a wide range of options.

I should start charging you all for my knowledge as a certified rifle, pistol, shotgun, and archery instructor.

I am serious about being an instructor, not about charging you all. Maybe.

[Belsnickel]

(04-10-2023, 07:55 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: I have a Springfield 30-06 bolt action for the big game, and I used it in a moose hunt in Newfoundland, CA.  Mossberg 12-ga pump for pheasant, duck and deer and that thing will blow a basketball size hole through a sold oak door. 

I use a .308 for every big game I have hunted, from whitetail to moose. I have never been to Alaska to hunt brown bears, though, or done a bison hunt. If I were to ever get the opportunity I would likely go for something more stout. Maybe .300 WM or 7mm. But .308 gets the job done for all of our deer species and for black bear.

[basballguy]

(04-10-2023, 05:34 PM)GMDino Wrote: We know.  At least they do in Virginia.  So I'm assuming we could get the stats from every state.

https://www.vpm.org/news/2023-02-06/politifact-general-assembly-children-deaths-fentanyl-guns



And, again, I can want to protect people from drugs AND guns.  It's not that hard.

Politifact fact checkers have been proven biased (even before Trump).

I don't know if what you linked is true or not but it would be nice if they would explain why this senator said this and where that senator got the data instead of saying "nuh uh we checked one source so it must be false!"

Is what they say true?  Possibly....but if you're gonna call someone out for false info then you should at least explain how you think they got their info.  

I don't trust any "fact checkers"

Side note...any "fact checker" that has a political leaning should not be used as a trusted source

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/politifact

[NATI BENGALS]

Something tells me that if there was less access to guns there would be less psycho mass shooters.

Idk just a hunch. Like if there is less fentanyl there would be less OD deaths.

I know wild concept

[Luvnit2]

(04-10-2023, 11:05 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Something tells me that if there was less access to guns there would be less psycho mass shooters.

Idk just a hunch. Like if there is less fentanyl there would be less OD deaths.

I know wild concept

If your solution is to ban or limit guns, you have to be a realist. During the prohibition of alcohol, people found ways to drink alcohol. Weed was illegal in the 60"s and in some states still illegal. Guess what, people found ways to buy the illegal drug and smoke it.

Bad people would find their weapon of mass destruction, but sadly the innocent people would be sitting ducks to be shot and killed. I find comfort knowing the state I lived in is legal carry, bad guns are not as brave when they know the lady they are targeting may have a gun to protect themselves.

It is tragic innocent people are killed by mentally ill and very disturbed people. The Tenn. shooting was not done by a white supremest. It was a hate crime, yet the media on the left and our POTUS through a spokesperson applauds the killing of innocent catholic children and those teaching them. Sorry, that is just sick. Report the news the same. Everyone knows if a white supremest goes into a black school and kills innocent children and teachers, it would be all over the liberal media, but the hate crime in Tenn. liberal media ignores the shooter and the hatred involved. 

Pray for our nation and pray for anyone murdered by any means. How many mass shootings in Chicago the past few years? You know Chicago that has laws forbidding guns. 

[*Nately120*]

(04-10-2023, 11:40 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If your solution is to ban or limit guns, you have to be a realist. During the prohibition of alcohol, people found ways to drink alcohol. Weed was illegal in the 60"s and in some states still illegal. Guess what, people found ways to buy the illegal drug and smoke it.

Bad people would find their weapon of mass destruction, but sadly the innocent people would be sitting ducks to be shot and killed. I find comfort knowing the state I lived in is legal carry, bad guns are not as brave when they know the lady they are targeting may have a gun to protect themselves.

It is tragic innocent people are killed by mentally ill and very disturbed people. The Tenn. shooting was not done by a white supremest. It was a hate crime, yet the media on the left and our POTUS through a spokesperson applauds the killing of innocent catholic children and those teaching them. Sorry, that is just sick. Report the news the same. Everyone knows if a white supremest goes into a black school and kills innocent children and teachers, it would be all over the liberal media, but the hate crime in Tenn. liberal media ignores the shooter and the hatred involved. 

Pray for our nation and pray for anyone murdered by any means. How many mass shootings in Chicago the past few years? You know Chicago that has laws forbidding guns. 

There is no banning guns, and even limiting them or regulating them seems pretty unlikely.  I honestly think we should just treat people who are wounded or killed in mass shootings by strangers the same way we treat veterans who are killed or wounded in battle.  They are civilians but they were wounded or killed in the defense of our liberties.  Give them a monument like the Vietnam one with their names engraved on it, and even offer their families pensions and other government benefits.

It's a bit of a shame that we subject innocent and untrained and unarmed men, women, and children to the horrors of combat in this sense, so since we can't stop it we may as well just treat them like heroes.  I'd include them in Memorial Day, honestly.  They died in the line of duty, and every American has the duty to lay down his or her life for the 2A.

[guyofthetiger]

I've never owned a gun and rarely shot one. However, I think you should be able to own a gun just as powerful as the government. This way, tyrancy can be controlled.

[NATI BENGALS]

I have to buy insurance to drive my car. And pay yearly to update my registration. I also have to pay for a drivers license.

Because of those things, subconsciously I probably drive slightly less like an idiot than I would like.

[BigPapaKain]

(04-10-2023, 07:56 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: 12 ga. Would work great in a zombie apocalypse too.

So would winter and excessive heat, but movies tend to forget what happens to meat left out in the sun all damn day.

[XenoMorph]

(04-10-2023, 02:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: The bank should have had security?

https://www.wave3.com/2023/04/10/lmpd-4-dead-9-injured-including-2-officers-downtown-louisville-shooting-suspect-dead/

A serious mental health issue going on 


But to the people that want to ban guns... Why should Law abiding citizens have their RIGHTS dictated by criminals?

[GMDino]

[*Nately120*]

(04-11-2023, 08:25 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: A serious mental health issue going on 


But to the people that want to ban guns... Why should Law abiding citizens have their RIGHTS dictated by criminals?

In theory our rights are supposed to be dictated by a government that weighs logic and reason over political buzzwords and optics.  Keep in mind, our right to bear arms was dictated by the government, too in a time where we like to think they looked at the country and the reasons for the 2A and made what we like to assume was a logical decision.

But this goes back to the fact that Americans can't grasp why a shooter should dictate our gun rights, but we've made a lot of things illegal over the years because people misuse them and some of our most popular politicians run on a platform of making things that are legal now, illegal.  Hell some stuff isn't even misused but needs to be illegal because "reasons."

Anyways, no one is banning guns.  Even if the government could take one gun per minute away from Americans that would take 400 million minutes, which is 760 years to take every gun. One gun per second would take almost 13 years, itself.  It ain't happening.