(08-18-2017, 04:54 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Fight the Nazis! F*** the Constitution! American Nazis don't deserve the rights afforded to them by the Bill of Rights! This won't have repercussions AT ALL!
What's funny is that if this were say St. Lucie saying this about Muslims, Dino would be very critical of him. But, it's Nazis. F*** the Nazis and damn the Constitution to do so.
Read anywhere I posted and tell me that I said they Nazis in America do not have the same rights as other citizens.
Any post.
I just have zero problem with other groups of citizens shouting down Nazis.
As to Muslims...when I am presented with the good Nazis that are talking about how bad the bad ones are giving the rest of them a bad name then that analogy works.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
I give groups like Antifa about as much credence as "freedom fighters" as I do the pedophiliacs attempting to get their "love" of children recognized as a sexual preference, and not a heinous crime..
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(08-18-2017, 08:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I give groups like Antifa about as much credence as "freedom fighters" as I do the pedophiliacs attempting to get their "love" of children recognized as a sexual preference, and not a heinous crime..
(08-18-2017, 08:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: Read anywhere I posted and tell me that I said they Nazis in America do not have the same rights as other citizens.
Any post.
I just have zero problem with other groups of citizens shouting down Nazis.
No, it's not that you said they do NOT have the same rights, it's that you do not WANT them to have the same rights. As evidenced by you having "zerio problem" with other citizens taking away their rights.
I think Nazi ideology needs to be eradicated, too, but not at the expense of their rights as afforded them by the US Constitution.
(08-19-2017, 01:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, it's not that you said they do NOT have the same rights, it's that you do not WANT them to have the same rights. As evidenced by you having "zerio problem" with other citizens taking away their rights.
I think Nazi ideology needs to be eradicated, too, but not at the expense of their rights as afforded them by the US Constitution.
Oh heavens no!
I've have said...repeatedly they have a right to free speech under the constitution!
The government cannot stop them.
Citizens can try to.
Private places can try to.
Privately owned companies can try to.
Employers can try to.
And if what they are saying is Nazi fueled hate speech I encourage everyone who can legally stop or shout them down to go right ahead.
Someone on the boards awhile back said people don't understand what "free speech" means. Sadly I think that is still true.
Quote:Yes, the First Amendment applies only to government action, but that’s where censorship threats typically come from. Neighbors and private citizens can’t limit our speech, and bosses can do it in the workplace only because we have a contractual relationship with our employers. As Thomas Paine would have noted, we are born free, and the scope of our liberty is enormous.
Today in America, more than 312 million people will say exactly what they want to say about politics, policies and the world around them. Not a single person will be jailed for the words he or she utters.
Today that same 312 million will pray to the God of their choice (or to none at all), and suffer no consequences.
Today several thousand newspapers and millions of websites and bloggers based in the U.S. will write about what is going on in their communities and in some cases, how they feel about it. Nobody will end the day in jail because of what he’s written.
The power and scope of the First Amendment is extraordinary and we do it a disservice when we suggest that the extraordinarily rare exceptions are the norm.
From Goudie’s column: “Child pornography, defamation and inciting crimes are just a few examples of speech that has been determined to be illegal under the U.S. Constitution.”
Just a few examples? There’s no massive laundry list of exceptions to the First Amendment. The examples cited by Goudie largely deal with criminal activity, not pure speech.
Of course, you can’t yell “Fire” in a crowded theater. You also can’t step to the front of the theater in the middle of a showing of the latest installment of “Twilight” and yell “Long Live the First Amendment” over and over again. In either case, you’d be taken into custody because of your disruptive or threatening action.
Kiddie porn can be suppressed because it hurts children. Speech made in planning a criminal act is punishable as a conspiracy.
And although you can sue someone for defamation, America’s news media enjoy substantial protection under the First Amendment.
Essentially you can prevail in a libel suit only if the statement is false and intended to harm (see “Theater, Yelling Fire In”).
Protesters in the Occupy movement are being arrested for trespassing and related acts, but not for their message.
It’s an important distinction. If we accept as conventional wisdom that free-speech rights are often limited, then free expression doesn’t seem so sacrosanct. Though conduct related to speech can be punished, ideas are largely inviolate. That foundation of freedom has served this nation well.
Everyone has the right to free speech...even if they are telling over each other.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(08-19-2017, 01:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, it's not that you said they do NOT have the same rights, it's that you do not WANT them to have the same rights. As evidenced by you having "zerio problem" with other citizens taking away their rights.
I think Nazi ideology needs to be eradicated, too, but not at the expense of their rights as afforded them by the US Constitution.
Every one has the right to free speech. However that means that the GOVERNMENT is not going to lock me up for exercising my right. It does not mean that free speech is going to be consequence free. If you are on the street corner spewing an evil vile message, you can be sure it will be met with opposition. And they have the same right to free speech to oppose that message. It's the violence where things get dicey.
You got one side itching to pick a fight, and the other side is more than willing to oblige. I mean really what did you think these Nazi asshole were going to get when they hit the street...a parade?
(08-19-2017, 02:29 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Every one has the right to free speech. However that means that the GOVERNMENT is not going to lock me up for exercising my right. It does not mean that free speech is going to be consequence free. If you are on the street corner spewing an evil vile message, you can be sure it will be met with opposition. And they have the same right to free speech to oppose that message. It's the violence where things get dicey.
You got one side itching to pick a fight, and the other side is more than willing to oblige. I mean really what did you think these Nazi asshole were going to get when they hit the street...a parade?
It's like the workplace free speech scenario. You can say what you want, but if an employer doesn't want to keep you around after saying it, they don't have to. You may be free from government enforcement of speech, but you are never free from the reaction of others to it.
You can say whatever, whenever. You can't stop people from responding in kind, so long as the response isn't violent.
(08-18-2017, 07:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There is a unifying ideology to the white supremacists of racism. There is no unifying ideology to antifa apart from objecting to that. I disagree with their tactics, but I recognize that it is not an ideological equivalent to racist shit stains. That is my viewpoint on the overarching issue, and why I do, indeed, find the white supremacists more objectionable on a large scale.
As for Charlottesville specifically, the white supremacists attacked clergy, who were then defended by antifa. The talking point being spewed that they are against anyone that is not in line with their ideology is eroded by this fact, along with the lack of a unifying ideology.
I don't think you've been researching and following the same antics I have.
There is a lot of uniformity in ANTIFA. They're mostly in the far left spectrum and only differ in to what degree they beleive far left idealogy. You get everything from socialists to anarcho communists.
Same can be said for the alt-right, which covers a wide spectrum of beliefs. All nazis in their current form are alt right, but not all alt right are nazis.
It's one thing to say there're a genocide against white people going on; it's another to say we should "peacefully cleanse" minorities
(08-19-2017, 08:15 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I don't think you've been researching and following the same antics I have.
There is a lot of uniformity in ANTIFA. They're mostly in the far left spectrum and only differ in to what degree they beleive far left idealogy. You get everything from socialists to anarcho communists.
Same can be said for the alt-right, which covers a wide spectrum of beliefs. All nazis in their current form are alt right, but not all alt right are nazis.
It's one thing to say there're a genocide against white people going on; it's another to say we should "peacefully cleanse" minorities
(08-19-2017, 09:23 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Not really.
Do people's beliefs need to be completely identical in every aspect in to be uniform?
The point was that they fell into different points in the spectrum, but theyre still the same spectrum.
Even if they are on the same spectrum, they don't share an ideology. The post you are arguing against said that they don't share a unified ideology, and that what unifies the alt-right is racism. You aren't saying anything different than that.
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