(08-16-2017, 03:13 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Personnally, I think it should be up to the citizens of that particular town/county/state to decide if certain memorials should be erected or taken down.
Agreed, although you're still going to run into an issue where a large chunk of the population doesn't go along with the majority.
A lot of my wife's family lives in Jackson, Mississippi. The city is around 75% black. You wouldn't know it by the number of rebel flags and confederate friendly things there. There's still a noticeable rift there, which I guess is true in most places. It's just kind of accepted racism there though. Lawmakers are pretty quick to enact laws to keep any rumblings of black voters low.
(08-16-2017, 07:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This right here is why this current movement really troubles me. My views on the confederacy are well known here. This person was not a confederate, he made a court ruling that is historically unpopular and contemptible by today's standards. It begs the question, who's next? George Washington owned slaves, erase him from our currency, no longer celebrate his birthday and destroy the Washington monument? Thomas Jefferson, same problem, he's got to go. Lincoln? Freed the slaves but his view of black people would peg him square in the racist category, he's got to go. Patton was well known for being antisemitic, all things Patton must be erased. Truman nuked Japanese civilians, horrible person, he's got to go.
I really don't like where this is heading.
The commission's decision regarding the Taney statue was that it should be moved to a location with more historical relevance. His connection to the city itself is loose, with his statue having been placed there because he was Francis Scott Key's brother in law. That's a pretty far fetched reason to have a monument to someone who said black people can't ever be citizens in a city that is 63% black.
The Lee/Jackson statue is being offered to the National Park Service for a battlefield.
The other two were originally going to remain. New signs were placed next to them last year explaining how they were propaganda used to promote the idea of the Lost Cause, but the mayor decided to just remove them as well.
(08-17-2017, 08:05 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The commission's decision regarding the Taney statue was that it should be moved to a location with more historical relevance. His connection to the city itself is loose, with his statue having been placed there because he was Francis Scott Key's brother in law. That's a pretty far fetched reason to have a monument to someone who said black people can't ever be citizens in a city that is 63% black.
The Lee/Jackson statue is being offered to the National Park Service for a battlefield.
The other two were originally going to remain. New signs were placed next to them last year explaining how they were propaganda used to promote the idea of the Lost Cause, but the mayor decided to just remove them as well.
That was the direction things were headed in Richmond, as well. I think what becomes of things in Richmond will be very interesting to watch. The city was one big battlefield and it was the capital of the CSA for the majority of its time in existence. Because of this, the new mayor, Levar Stoney, had discussed providing signs for context on Monument Avenue where a lot of these statues stand. Now, with the events in Charlottesville, he is more open to removal.
Apparently there was a Confederate monument removed last night about a half hour from where I live in Ohio. Who knew of Ohio's contribution to the Confederacy?
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
(08-16-2017, 07:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: Seems pretty simple for the most part:
Did you actively fight for the side that oppressed a minority? No statue.
All the southerners that fought their own country for the right to own people...no statues.
Those southern governors who fought desegregation....no statues.
Owning slaves before all of this came to a head? Eh. Did you help found the country? Statue. Otherwise...no statue. (That's a harder one.)
I've heard there was a law in the 50s that retroactively made all those who fought in the confederacy veterans.
Why are you anti-veteran, Dino? Huh?! HUH?!
(08-16-2017, 09:15 PM)Benton Wrote: Agreed, although you're still going to run into an issue where a large chunk of the population doesn't go along with the majority.
That's the way it's going to go in America. The minority, though, just needs to realize that while they have every right to be vocal about their opposition, the majority rules, so-to-speak.
(08-17-2017, 10:36 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I've heard there was a law in the 50s that retroactively made all those who fought in the confederacy veterans.
Why are you anti-veteran, Dino? Huh?! HUH?!
That's the way it's going to go in America. The minority, though, just needs to realize that while they have every right to be vocal about their opposition, the majority rules, so-to-speak.
Did the law give them all statues?
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(08-17-2017, 10:03 AM)jason Wrote: Apparently there was a Confederate monument removed last night about a half hour from where I live in Ohio. Who knew of Ohio's contribution to the Confederacy?
Ohio contributed to the Confederacy, by helping to crush it led by a couple of southern favorites like Grant and Sherman.
Something I didnt know about Lee but is surfacing out there was that he was more or less against having monuments erected to memorialize the confederacy. The only ones he was in favor for were headstones for those fallen in cemeteries. Now that was in the years immediately after the war, but who knows if his opinion would have changed over time on that.
(08-17-2017, 11:55 AM)Millhouse Wrote: Ohio contributed to the Confederacy, by helping to crush it led by a couple of southern favorites like Grant and Sherman.
Named our NHL team after the Union army...
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
(08-17-2017, 11:57 AM)Millhouse Wrote: Something I didnt know about Lee but is surfacing out there was that he was more or less against having monuments erected to memorialize the confederacy. The only ones he was in favor for were headstones for those fallen in cemeteries. Now that was in the years immediately after the war, but who knows if his opinion would have changed over time on that.
Lee didn't believe in secession either. He's actually a really interesting figure in US history.
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
(08-17-2017, 11:57 AM)Millhouse Wrote: Something I didnt know about Lee but is surfacing out there was that he was more or less against having monuments erected to memorialize the confederacy. The only ones he was in favor for were headstones for those fallen in cemeteries. Now that was in the years immediately after the war, but who knows if his opinion would have changed over time on that.
How do we know which confederate soldiers were killed in cemeteries?
(08-16-2017, 07:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This right here is why this current movement really troubles me. My views on the confederacy are well known here. This person was not a confederate, he made a court ruling that is historically unpopular and contemptible by today's standards. It begs the question, who's next? George Washington owned slaves, erase him from our currency, no longer celebrate his birthday and destroy the Washington monument? Thomas Jefferson, same problem, he's got to go. Lincoln? Freed the slaves but his view of black people would peg him square in the racist category, he's got to go. Patton was well known for being antisemitic, all things Patton must be erased. Truman nuked Japanese civilians, horrible person, he's got to go.
I really don't like where this is heading.
As predicted, I hate being right in cases like this.
EDIT: BTW, I didn't notice this video was edited by the dailycaller, don't really care now that I have. The source is CNN and the clip is what's important. Just preemptively saying this before one of the predictable ones among us shout "Muh dailycaller!"
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(08-18-2017, 01:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As predicted, I hate being right in cases like this.
EDIT: BTW, I didn't notice this video was edited by the dailycaller, don't really care now that I have. The source is CNN and the clip is what's important. Just preemptively saying this before one of the predictable ones among us shout "Muh dailycaller!"
But as the popular saying goes, History was written by the winners. That's why statues and monuments of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Truman, and Patton will stand. They were winners. Lee, Jackson, Johnston, Davis....they were all losers. With a capital L. Their monuments need to be removed. Our fearless leader is trying to make AmeriKa great again! We don't need monuments of Losers up for all to see. Only winners.
Deceitful, two-faced she-woman. Never trust a female, Delmar, remember that one simple precept and your time with me will not have been ill spent.
I really think these monuments and symbols belong in museums as others have said. They're history so they need to be studied and understood, but they are history and should not be used as symbols.
(08-16-2017, 10:27 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have mixed feelings on these statues. My background, where I grew up, what I've experienced, I just don't know how to feel. I mean, you can't turn around in my city without hitting something related to the Civil War, and it is true for a lot of this area. North of me, in New Market, is the Virginia Museum of the Civil War, which is maintained by VMI. A battle was fought where I am sitting, and not far from me is a memorial to a Confederate general that died here. My area council for the BSA is the Stonewall Jackson Area Council. At the same time, I do see them as giant participation trophies that were often erected only in the Jim Crow era to glorify racist ideals. I have to say that I am someone much more in favor of removing them than my wife, who is much more entrenched in southern culture than I am. Growing up where I did, our southern roots are different than those east of us. Our area didn't vote for secession from the US and only reluctantly went to war.
Anyway, it makes no sense for Maryland to have monuments to the confederacy. I could have just said that in the beginning, but I got to rambling.
In the middle of typing this, I just have to add, I got a phone call into our departmental line and was just asked "Are you all going to change the name of the university since James Madison was a slave owner and came up with the three-fifth's?" So we have that to look forward to.
The question actually fits. But I've been too busy laughing at muslims demanding they be removed because people shouldn't idolize slavery....
The irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
(08-19-2017, 08:28 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: The question actually fits. But I've been too busy laughing at muslims demanding they be removed because people shouldn't idolize slavery....
The irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
That is literally the first time I ever heard of such a thing.
If it is true is it as ironic as white people wanting them removed for the same reason?
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