Biden incorrectly calls Trump the first racist POTUS

[*bfine32*]

(07-23-2020, 06:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well, at least you admit that you don't know.  Maybe I can help you understand.  

As far as I know, no one else on the entire planet calls it the "China Flu" except Trump supporters.  And Trump has a LONG history of racists positions.(Mexican immigrants are filthy, diseased, criminals....A judge won't be fair if he is Mexican...Defends the legacy of the Confederacy....Welcomes Confederate flags at his rallies....accused the Muslim population of dancing in the streets after 9-11...told US citizens of color to go back to "their countries"(this one gave white nationalists a huge hard on)....found in violation of the Fair Housing Act for discriminating against minority renters...lied about his association with KKK Grand Wizard David Duke...tweets lies about percentage of white people killed by blacks...proposed Muslim immigration ban while running for President...claimed the white supremacists at the Unite The Right rally in Charlottesville were "quietly" supporting the Robert E Lee statue and that the counter protestors acted "very very violently"...repeatedly denigrated Puerto Ricans after two hurricanes...retweets radical anti-Muslim comments from Jayda Fransen...post video of Trump supporter yelling "White Power"...supported Rosanne Barr after she called Valerie Jarret and ape. etc, etc,

Since you spend so much time defending him and posting anti-BLM propaganda you are naturally going to be associated with his racist tendencies.

Do you have a link to anyone calling you a racist for thinking that black people are capable of independent thought?  That is a pretty wild claim to make.  Not saying it isn't true.  I'd just like to see where you got that idea in the first place.

Sure the site is biased but it's not like Huffpo is going to post it:

https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2020/03/18/nolte-53-times-the-establishment-media-said-chinese-or-wuhan-virus/

Quote:As you will see below, between the written list (which has been floating around for a while) and the video compilation, we’re talking about at least 53 times. And you know there are more instances out there…

Quote:

1. “Japan and Thailand Confirm New Cases of Chinese Coronavirus,” The New York Times, 1/15/20
2. “The CDC and Homeland Security begin screening for Chinese Coronavirus at three major US airports as outbreak spreads in Asia,” CNBC, 1/17/20
3. “Vaccine for new Chinese coronavirus in the works,” CNN, 1/20/20
4. “First U.S. case of potentially deadly Chinese coronavirus confirmed in Washington state,” Washington Post, 1/21/20
5. “Chinese coronavirus outbreak has reached U.S. shores, CDC says,” Los Angeles Times, 1/21/20
6. “The First Case Of The Chinese Coronavirus Has Hit The US, CDC Reports,” Buzzfeed,1/21/20
7. “First case of Chinese coronavirus confirmed in Washington state,” NBC’s Today Show, 1/24/20
8. “Chinese coronavirus infections, death toll soar as fifth case is confirmed in U.S.,” Washington Post, 1/26/20
9. “Japan confirms case of new Chinese virus, spread is ‘concerning,’” Reuters, 1/15/20
10. “How the Chinese virus outbreak impacts Lunar New Year travel,” National Geographic, 1/24/20
11. “China coronavirus ‘spreads before symptoms show,’” BBC, 1/26/20
12. “Over a thousand ‘likely’ infected by Wuhan virus in China: Study,” Al Jazeera,1/18/20
13. “Stop the Wuhan virus,” Nature Magazine editorial, 1/21/20)
14. “China confirms Wuhan virus can be spread by humans,” CNN, 1/22/20
15. “First U.S. Case Reported of Deadly Wuhan Virus,” Wall Street Journal, 1/22/20
16. “Here are the symptoms of the deadly Wuhan coronavirus and when you should be worried,” Business Insider, 1/22/20
17. “Something Far Deadlier Than The Wuhan Virus Lurks Near You,” Kaiser Health News, 1/24/20
18. “With Wuhan virus genetic code in hand, scientists begin work on a vaccine,” Reuters, 1/24/20
19. “The Wuhan Virus: How to Stay Safe,” Foreign Policy, 1/25/20
20. “Something Far Deadlier Than The Wuhan Virus Lurks Near You,” USA Today, 1/29/20
21. “10-Year-Old Boy Raises Fears Wuhan Virus Could Spread Undetected,” Bloomberg, 1/29/20
22. “Your Questions About Wuhan Coronavirus, Answered, National Public Radio, 1/30/20
23. “Will the Wuhan virus become a pandemic?” The Economist, 1/30/20
    
    
    
    1. NOTE: The photo in this article was on their COVER for this issue.
       

This fantastic video compilation includes over 30 instances of CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, and others drumming “Wuhan” and “Chinese” into our heads:


As I mentioned in my countdown of 11 lies the media have already told about the Wuhan coronavirus…
“To sum this up, the fake news media flood these words and terms into the American lexicon, and then sanctimoniously turn around and attack those who repeat them as racist.”
These are not good people… And they’re certainly not serious people.
But just don’t call them the enemy of the people because … that would be wrong.

But I must admit I know why many here consider me racist. It's because I'm conservative. 

Also. please show all the anti- BLM propaganda I have posted; as you are the one that accusation. I'll freely admit I've been critical of the name and often times the motives and yeah, equating that too with being reacist is sad.

[*bfine32*]

(07-23-2020, 07:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, I never claimed calling it the China virus was racist, just pointing out your fallacious argument. For the record, though, I also am not saying it isn't racist. By me saying it is being called that for an agenda that leaves it wide open for what that agenda could be. That agenda could be a racist one. It could be purely political. It could be a combination thereof. I am just saying that it is being done for an agenda.

It's really not that hard:

Is Trump calling a virus that originated from China the China Virus, racist? And if so against what race?

If your answer is no then why didn't you point out the fallacious argument in the OP as I did?

[Belsnickel]

(07-23-2020, 07:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's really not that hard:

Is Trump calling a virus that originated from China the China Virus, racist? And if so against what race?

I don't know the intention, so I can't answer that. As for the race it would be against, well, racism tends to be used in common vernacular to mean prejudice based on race, ethnicity, or nation of origin sine the latter two lack a specific, easy to say term. So, it could very well refer to the Chinese people.

(07-23-2020, 07:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If your answer is no then why didn't you point out the fallacious argument in the OP as I did?

What fallacious argument in the OP? I didn't read the article, I just saw that Pat was saying Trump is racist, but not the most racist in the past century and Biden was wrong to claim Trump was the most racist.

[*bfine32*]

(07-23-2020, 08:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't know the intention, so I can't answer that. As for the race it would be against, well, racism tends to be used in common vernacular to mean prejudice based on race, ethnicity, or nation of origin sine the latter two lack a specific, easy to say term. So, it could very well refer to the Chinese people.


What fallacious argument in the OP? I didn't read the article, I just saw that Pat was saying Trump is racist, but not the most racist in the past century and Biden was wrong to claim Trump was the most racist.

Well of course I'm not putting you in this category; I'll leave that up to you, but:

Mentality like this is typical and why we cannot have open honest debate.


I guarantee you if Trump said something racist the majority of this forum would give 2 shits about intention, but when he says something that is not racist, we cannot call it as such because we do not know intention. 

So it could be racist toward the Chinese race? I hope no one is ever racist toward the American race. 

The OP quoted an article where Biden called Trump racist for using the term China Virus. Perhaps you could take a minute to read it or was it just best to find fallacy in my retort instead of the OP?

[masterpanthera_t]

Bfine, I didn't state this before because it was addressed well by Hollo, but just for the record I will say it, so you know it's not just limited to one or two. I don't consider your post racist, where there was a picture of a black looter. I think Dino went way overboard in making a feckless accusation.

Now, Trump on the other hand, that's a whole different story. Not because of calling the coronavirus "Chinese Virus" or "Kung Flu", but for a whole host of things. So, the post I replied to you about, was the one comparing the word "corona" to "China virus". That comparison doesn't fit, because while corona is a real Spanish word, its usage here does nothing to invoke Spain or Spanish. It's a Latin coinage that is used scientifically, as many medical terms have been by convention for however, many years. In this case Bels is correct. And while I don't agree with Biden's claim of racism based on "China virus" usage, I think Trump has shown his racist colors too many times in other cases. I don't mind saying Biden's argument is fallacious, but his conclusion is not. As I've responded to you before, Biden is not immune to political gamesmanship.

[*jason*]

Joe Biden just stumbled on his words again. What he meant to say was Donald Trump is the worst racist president... Worst at his job that is.

[Belsnickel]

(07-23-2020, 08:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well of course I'm not putting you in this category; I'll leave that up to you, but:

Mentality like this is typical and why we cannot have open honest debate.

Personally, I find the intellectual dishonesty of making false equivalencies with factual inaccuracies to be a hindrance to open and honest debate. But that's just me.

[*bfine32*]

(07-23-2020, 08:19 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Bfine, I didn't state this before because it was addressed well by Hollo, but just for the record I will say it, so you know it's not just limited to one or two. I don't consider your post racist, where there was a picture of a black looter. I think Dino went way overboard in making a feckless accusation.

Now, Trump on the other hand, that's a whole different story. Not because of calling the coronavirus "Chinese Virus" or "Kung Flu", but for a whole host of things. So, the post I replied to you about, was the one comparing the word "corona" to "China virus". That comparison doesn't fit, because while corona is a real Spanish word, it's usage here does nothing to invoke Spain or Spanish. It's a Latin coinage that is used scientifically, as many medical terms have been by convention for however, many years. In this case Bels is correct. And while I don't agree with Biden's claim of racism based on "China virus" usage, I think Trump has shown his racist colors too many times in other cases. I don't mind saying Biden's argument is fallacious, but his conclusion is not. As I've responded to you before, Biden is not immune to political gamesmanship.

I'll concede the point and not post further in this thread as my limited interaction with you seems to be what we are looking for in PnR moving forward. 

Perhaps we'll discuss in a future thread against what race Trump is racist toward. IMO he's a narcissist and gives less than a damn about one's race. He's worried about him and anyone who opposes him. It just seems racist is the most convenient term the Left can come up with. 

[masterpanthera_t]

(07-23-2020, 08:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll concede the point and not post further in this thread as my limited interaction with you seems to be what we are looking for in PnR moving forward. 

Perhaps we'll discuss in a future thread against what race Trump is racist toward. IMO he's a narcissist and gives less than a damn about one's race. He's worried about him and anyone who opposes him. It just seems racist is the most convenient term the Left can come up with. 

I'll say this: while it can be argued Trump is racist or not,  I definitely agree Trump literally will say anything if it helps him and hurts his "enemy" regardless of whether it's grounded in truth or not.

As for the bolded, I hope that's a positive statement on our interaction, although the multiple meaning parser in my head hasn't ruled out that it means " PNR looks for limited interaction between you and me", which technically can be one accurate parsing of that sentence. Of course, context rules that out. But going forward, I'm likely to ask for clarification in many interactions because in my experience in reading posts here, some sentences can have multiple meanings whether intended or not. Sometimes context within the sentence isn't clear on which meaning is intended.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-23-2020, 07:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: 1) Medical professionals don’t refer to this as the China virus or the China flu.

So what? Medical professionals refer to a heart attack as a myocardial infarction.  You know anyone who says their friend/relative died of a myocardial infarction?

Quote:2) Trump’s use of either term is two fold: 1) avoid blame/responsibility and

I literally already stated this exact point.

Quote:2) incite xenophobia against China.

I disagree.  Phobia, by definition, relates to an irrational fear.  It is not irrational to blame China for the rapid spread of this virus due to their complete lack of transparency in regards to this virus.

Quote:Combine Trump’s history with the intentional omission of the correct medical terms with the intentional beating of the xenophobic drums and I would say it is fair to consider it racist.

It's fine if that's your opinion.  I just don't find it at all compelling.  Quite honestly I find it an intellectually lazy position driven more by dislike of Trump than logic.

[GMDino]

Trump: "Chinese Virus"

Trump "Kung flu"

Most people: "That sounds vaguely racist.  Probably best to just go with Coronavirus or Covid-19"

Trump supporters: "It's not racist!  Why do you think he's racist!  Stop attacking Trump!!!"

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-23-2020, 08:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Trump: "Chinese Virus"

Trump "Kung flu"

Most people: "That sounds vaguely racist.  Probably best to just go with Coronavirus or Covid-19"

Trump supporters: "It's not racist!  Why do you think he's racist!  Stop attacking Trump!!!"

Wait, you've heard or seen a clip of Trump saying "Kung flu"?

[*jason*]

(07-23-2020, 08:38 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: So what? Medical professionals refer to a heart attack as a myocardial infarction.  You know anyone who says their friend/relative died of a myocardial infarction?



I literally already stated this exact point.



I disagree.  Phobia, by definition, relates to an irrational fear.  It is not irrational to blame China for the rapid spread of this virus due to their complete lack of transparency in regards to this virus.


It's fine if that's your opinion.  I just don't find it at all compelling.  Quite honestly I find it an intellectually lazy position driven more by dislike of Trump than logic.

How easy do you suppose it is to contain a novel virus that originates in a city that is a commercial hub, and has a population of over 11 million people? I don't know how many flights came in and out of Wuhan in a single day in November, but I'm willing to wager the number is substantial. I agree that transparency isn't the PRC's thing, but it's hard for me to believe the toothpaste wasn't already outta the tube by the time it had been identified.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-23-2020, 09:04 PM)jason Wrote: How easy do you suppose it is to contain a novel virus that originates in a city that is a commercial hub, and has a population of over 11 million people? I don't know how many flights came in and out of Wuhan in a single day in November, but I'm willing to wager the number is substantial. I agree that transparency isn't the PRC's thing, but it's hard for me to believe the toothpaste wasn't already outta the tube by the time it had been identified.

You are absolutely correct.  However, I would counter that targeting any such outbreak as early as possible is the absolute key to limiting it's spread.  It was impossible for anyone outside of China to even begin this process due to China hiding the information for weeks, if not months.  They didn't want to be blamed so they covered it up.  We'll certainly never know for sure, but it's very possible this could have gotten nipped in the bud much earlier and we wouldn't be dealing with all this bullshit now.

[masterpanthera_t]

(07-23-2020, 09:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You are absolutely correct.  However, I would counter that targeting any such outbreak as early as possible is the absolute key to limiting it's spread.  It was impossible for anyone outside of China to even begin this process due to China hiding the information for weeks, if not months.  They didn't want to be blamed so they covered it up.  We'll certainly never know for sure, but it's very possible this could have gotten nipped in the bud much earlier and we wouldn't be dealing with all this bullshit now.

Yes. Their proactive coverup in this matter has led to many countries actively considering cutting business interactions with them. Australian newspapers were lampooning a pathetic attempt by Chinese diplomats to portray an article as racist in basis (implied, not overtly stated), with a point by point distilling of facts supporting every assertion made, leaving China looking incompetent at best or proactively disingenuous at worst. India has vowed to reduce Chinese investments and Japan has vowed to bring back Japanese businesses (IIRC) back from China.

I hope this pandemic results  in the weakening of stature economically all across the world of the PRC government.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-23-2020, 08:38 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: So what? Medical professionals refer to a heart attack as a myocardial infarction.  You know anyone who says their friend/relative died of a myocardial infarction?

Medical professionals also use layman’s terms like heart attack instead of medical terms like myocardial infarction. Terms like food poisoning or the stomach flu or a stomach bug rather than, “You got the shits.”

Terms such as the China virus, the Wuhan virus, the Kung flu are all derogatory terms for the novel coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, or Covid 19. They are all conscious choices to not use the correct terms. It’s not like Covid 19 isn’t a part of our everyday vernacular during this pandemic as opposed to myocardial infarction.

You’re more than intelligent enough to understand the point.

Quote:I literally already stated this exact point.

I agreed.

Quote:I disagree.  Phobia, by definition, relates to an irrational fear.  It is not irrational to blame China for the rapid spread of this virus due to their complete lack of transparency in regards to this virus.

China is not responsible for our national response. Or lack there of. Let’s not forget Trump’s praise of China’s response, specifically their transparency.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736

Here’s a timeline . . .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-52573137

The novel virus is thought to have appeared in November. First cases of a pneumonia of unknown origin appeared in December. The WHO was notified end of December. The WHO declared an emergency one month later when there were only a handful of cases in the US.

Buying into Trump’s revisionist history and blaming China for the spread of Covid 19 in the US is irrational.

Quote:It's fine if that's your opinion.  I just don't find it at all compelling.  Quite honestly I find it an intellectually lazy position driven more by dislike of Trump than logic.

It’s fine if that’s your opinion, but it takes less effort for me to call this infection Covid 19 than to think up derogatory terms like the Kung flu.

[masterpanthera_t]

I suppose I overlooked this in my earlier posts: I don't see racism in calling it "China Virus" or Wuhan virus or Chinese virus, etc., since it's a geographical description of origin.

Kung Flu, is without a question a derogatory term and has to be viewed as a pejorative attempt at a culture.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-23-2020, 09:52 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Medical professionals also use layman’s terms like heart attack instead of medical terms like myocardial infarction. Terms like food poisoning or the stomach flu or a stomach bug rather than, “You got the shits.”

Terms such as the China virus, the Wuhan virus, the Kung flu are all derogatory terms for the novel coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, or Covid 19. They are all conscious choices to not use the correct terms. It’s not like Covid 19 isn’t a part of our everyday vernacular during this pandemic as opposed to myocardial infarction.

You’re more than intelligent enough to understand the point.

I don't agree with the characterization of labeling it the "China virus".  As I said, it's certainbly used to distract from our response, but it is also accurate and keeps the onus for the origin of this whole problem on China 

Quote:I agreed.

My apologies if I missed that.

Quote:China is not responsible for our national response. Or lack there of. Let’s not forget Trump’s praise of China’s response, specifically their transparency.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736

Here’s a timeline . . .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-52573137

The novel virus is thought to have appeared in November. First cases of a pneumonia of unknown origin appeared in December. The WHO was notified end of December. The WHO declared an emergency one month later when there were only a handful of cases in the US.

Buying into Trump’s revisionist history and blaming China for the spread of Covid 19 in the US is irrational.

No, you're now ascribing Trump credit that you otherwise wouldn't extend him.  He's either mercurial and scattershot or he's not.  Trump frequently contradicts himself, it doesn't mean that every single one of his contradictory positions is wrong.  Calling Covid 19 the China virus is not inaccurate, racist or inflammatory, it's a fact about the virus' origin.

Quote:It’s fine if that’s your opinion, but it takes less effort for me to call this infection Covid 19 than to think up derogatory terms like the Kung flu.

Kung flu is a clear attempt at gallows humor, IMO.  Certainly by the standards of the present day, in which all humor must past a strict litmus test, it is unacceptable.  But I'll reiterate in this regard, is their video of Trump using this term?  

(07-23-2020, 10:26 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I suppose I overlooked this in my earlier posts: I don't see racism in calling it "China Virus" or Wuhan virus or Chinese virus, etc., since it's a geographical description of origin.

Kung Flu, is without a question a derogatory term and has to be viewed as a pejorative attempt at a culture.

As I said above, I view Kung flu as gallows humor.  I can see why others would not.  As to the rest, we are in agreement.

[masterpanthera_t]

(07-23-2020, 10:38 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Kung flu is a clear attempt at gallows humor, IMO.  Certainly by the standards of the present day, in which all humor must past a strict litmus test, it is unacceptable.  But I'll reiterate in this regard, is their video of Trump using this term?  


As I said above, I view Kung flu as gallows humor.  I can see why others would not.  As to the rest, we are in agreement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7isyt5qldw

At the 0:26 mark, you should see it. This is but one video. I've not looked for others.

I'll simply say considering how some non-critical thinking citizens of certain western nations (Britian, U.S, not sure exactly, but I've read some articles where I believe both nations are mentioned) have acted towards people of Asian origin, a term like "Kung flu" is irresponsible at best certainly emanating from a position of government leadership. But Trump couldn't care less on the harm even potentially inflicted if it helps him in any way possible. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-23-2020, 08:57 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wait, you've heard or seen a clip of Trump saying "Kung flu"?

Unless I was having some sort of schizophrenic episode, I recall him actually using the term Kung Flu at that Tulsa rally.  I think his main goal was to mock people who take covid seriously and make a stupid joke and pass the blame off on a lesser country rather than bring any sort of racist aspect to it...but I don't think the somewhat racist aspect bothered him much.

So with my belief that Trump says what he says to remove blame from himself, make himself look good, and remind his fanbase that he's the "effective because he's not afraid to piss people off" president the statement was a slam-dunk.