Boys need spaces to themselves

[StLucieBengal]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/30142/walsh-boys-matt-walsh

This has been a topic here in and off inside other threads. But with the recent news about the Boy Scouts abandoning completely now by changing their name I thought this was a good article. Boys are running out of places they can be with just boys, they are losing the ability to grow as boys among boys. It may not be a popular belief here on the board but both boys and girls need places to go and be with just boys or girls to grow.

We have seen sports moving towards the time where girls sports will be filled with transvestites or at least people pretending to be one to excel. There is a lot of money to be made and free educations to earn.

There was a portion of this article I really agree. Learning this lesson is critical.

Quote:Well, I do have a daughter. And, no, I don't want all the doors open to her. I want her to understand that she can't intrude into every space. She can't make everything about herself. She isn't going to be included in everything. Some things in life aren't for her. Some things aren't for my son. Some things aren't for me. When we insist that every last "door" must be opened for girls, and every organization in the world must include them, we only succeed in breeding self-centeredness in our daughters. I don't want that for my daughter. I want her to learn how to be excluded, because that's part of growing up.

Quote:WALSH: No, We Shouldn't Include Girls In Everything. Boys Need Space To Themselves.

Matt WalshMay 3, 2018

courtesy of Wikimedia Commons
It's fitting that the Girl Scouts are still the Girl Scouts while the Boy Scouts have changed their identity and now even their name to include girls. Girls can still have their own spaces and their own organizations in our culture. They are forced to allow boys into their locker rooms and bathrooms, which is insane and dangerous, but even in that case the boy has to pretend to be a girl in order to gain admittance.

Boys, on the other hand, are expected to include girls in everything. They are provided no area and no time to be boys, and do boy things, and be around other boys. We used to understand that boys need space apart from girls. Not anymore.

It's been trending this way for a while now. I remember when I played baseball as a kid and every team had a token girl or two. There was a perfectly fine girl's softball league available, but some girls wanted to play with the boys. Nobody ever asked whether the boys wanted to play with the girls. Had they asked, and had we felt free to be honest about it, we would have all said no. I don't think there's a boy alive who has ever thought to himself while playing a sport: "You know what this game needs? A girl!"

Of course, we've moved far beyond sports at this point. Wherever boys gather in our society, girls are allowed to intrude. We are not allowed to shut a door or tell them "no." Even the job of altar boy had to become "altar server" so as to include girls, in spite of the fact that girls cannot be priests and the whole point of the "altar serve" is to help young men discern the priesthood. But inclusion is paramount, always, and not just with kids. Men's lodges are a thing of the past because their "exclusionary policies" are offensive to our modern sensibilities.

I have been told that this is the way it needs to be because we must "open doors" for girls. Someone on Twitter scolded me for my opposition to the new Boy Scout policy, saying I "must not have a daughter" because if I did I would want "all the doors of the world to be open to her."

Well, I do have a daughter. And, no, I don't want all the doors open to her. I want her to understand that she can't intrude into every space. She can't make everything about herself. She isn't going to be included in everything. Some things in life aren't for her. Some things aren't for my son. Some things aren't for me. When we insist that every last "door" must be opened for girls, and every organization in the world must include them, we only succeed in breeding self-centeredness in our daughters. I don't want that for my daughter. I want her to learn how to be excluded, because that's part of growing up.

There are times when my son is playing with his buddies and they clearly don't want to involve any girls. I have no problem telling my daughter to give the boys space and let them do boy things. And there are times when my daughter is playing with her friends and they don't want some smelly boy coming in and mucking things up. I have no problem telling my son to back off and let the girls have girl time. I will close the door, exclude them, make them cede the floor to someone else. I guess I'm just cruel.

Or maybe I'm simply acknowledging the fact that girls need time for female bonding and boys need time for male bonding. There's a reason why boys don't want to include girls in everything. Adding a girl into the picture changes the dynamic. They feel like they have to tone things down and feminize things for her sake. They will not be able to relax and enjoy themselves in the same kind of free and open environment that exists between boys. Worse, when you inject a girl into a whole group of boys, they feel pressured to impress her. Rather than bonding, they compete with each other for the girl's attention and affection.

Often you'll hear a girl say that she gets together with her guy friends and becomes "just one of the guys." But she's not. They don't see her that way. They see her as a girl, because she is a girl. She will not have the same type of comradery with "the guys" that the guys have with each other. She will not understand them the way they understand each other. She is not one of them and never will be, just as a guy will never be one of the girls. Both groups need time apart to be their unguarded selves. For a boy, that is going to involve spitting and burping and wrestling around in the dirt. That's a boy thing. It's how boys act. They just need some space for it.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-03-2018, 12:56 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Often you'll hear a girl say that she gets together with her guy friends and becomes "just one of the guys." But she's not. They don't see her that way. They see her as a girl, because she is a girl. She will not have the same type of comradery with "the guys" that the guys have with each other. She will not understand them the way they understand each other. She is not one of them and never will be, just as a guy will never be one of the girls. Both groups need time apart to be their unguarded selves. For a boy, that is going to involve spitting and burping and wrestling around in the dirt. That's a boy thing. It's how boys act. They just need some space for it.

This part, I don't agree with. While it's true, that some guys will see a girl as just "a girl", I know for a fact that many times when a girls is "just one of the guys", she's not thought of as 'not one of the guys' by the guys. Her gender is just what makes her unique in her group (often not the only thing, too), just like Rudy's red hair, or Phil's fatness, or whatever.

With that said, I agree that in certain situations (not all and not as many as the article makes it seem), guys need their own space just like girls need their own space.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-03-2018, 01:03 PM)PhilHos Wrote: This part, I don't agree with. While it's true, that some guys will see a girl as just "a girl", I know for a fact that many times when a girls is "just one of the guys", she's not thought of as 'not one of the guys' by the guys. Her gender is just what makes her unique in her group (often not the only thing, too), just like Rudy's red hair, or Phil's fatness, or whatever.

With that said, I agree that in certain situations (not all and not as many as the article makes it seem), guys need their own space just like girls need their own space.

When a girl is in the group and you are doing a boy activity, something like playing basketball. Boys will purposely take it easy and not play hard against the girl because they don’t want to be made fun of for dominating a girl. This does boys no favors and quite frankly not the girls either. Learning your limits is important and exacty the life lessons every should learn.

When I was a child I played in a CYO co-ed basketball league and I grabbed a rebound raised the ball up and jacked a girl in the nose and gave her a pretty serious injury. Her father came onto the floor and yelled at me, I felt bad for hurting her, and this forced me to tone it down. That was the wrong move, my father told me that I needed to play like I would play with any other boy, it’s the other parents choice to allow their daughter to play with the boys. The bad part was that girl never played any sports again, her father apologized to me years later, but the girl was discouraged from playing sports because she was forced to play co-ed.

I am not stupid enough to allow my daughters to compete directly with boys in athletics. One does equestrian and the other is into judo. Judo is sometimes with boys at practice but never competing or practicing against one another.

[GMDino]

(05-03-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When a girl is in the group and you are doing a boy activity, something like playing basketball.

 

(05-03-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Boys will purposely take it easy and not play hard against the girl because they don’t want to be made fun of for dominating a girl.   This does boys no favors and quite frankly not the girls either.    Learning your limits is important and exacty the life lessons every should learn.  

What if they both play had and the boys lose? 

(05-03-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When I was a child I played in a CYO co-ed basketball league and I grabbed a rebound raised the ball up and jacked a girl in the nose and gave her a pretty serious injury.    Her father came onto the floor and yelled at me, I felt bad for hurting her, and this forced me to tone it down.    That was the wrong move, my father told me that I needed to play like I would play with any other boy, it’s the other parents choice to allow their daughter to play with the boys.   The bad part was that girl never played any sports again,  her father apologized to me years later, but the girl was discouraged from playing sports because she was forced to play co-ed.  

Ever think you only had to "tone it down" because your out of control action caused a serious injury? Whether it was a boy or a girl?

(05-03-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I am not stupid enough

This should be good....

(05-03-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: to allow my daughters to compete directly with boys in athletics.   One does equestrian and the other is into judo.   Judo is sometimes with boys at practice but never competing or practicing against one another.

So they never learn their "limitation" and are never pushed by people (boys, you say) better than them?

Sad.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-03-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When a girl is in the group and you are doing a boy activity, something like playing basketball.  

Playing basketball is not a "boy activity". Sure, boys might be more inclined to play sports, but that doesn't make it a "boy activity" anymore than cooking is strictly a 'girl activity'.

(05-03-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When a girl is in the group and you are doing a boy activity, something like playing basketball.   Boys will purposely take it easy and not play hard against the girl because they don’t want to be made fun of for dominating a girl.  

Again, that's not been my experience. If anything boys don't want to lose to "a girl" and will make sure they win no matter what. But, it's been my experience, even dating back to when I was a child, that if a girl had skills, she was more than welcome.

(05-03-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This does boys no favors and quite frankly not the girls either.    Learning your limits is important and exacty the life lessons every should learn.     

Yes, but learning that ANYONE can play basketball and should be allowed to play basketball even if they're different is more important than 'learning their limits'. And that's not even addressing the fact, that allowing girls to play can still help boys learn their limits.

(05-03-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When I was a child I played in a CYO co-ed basketball league and I grabbed a rebound raised the ball up and jacked a girl in the nose and gave her a pretty serious injury.    Her father came onto the floor and yelled at me, I felt bad for hurting her, and this forced me to tone it down.    That was the wrong move, my father told me that I needed to play like I would play with any other boy, it’s the other parents choice to allow their daughter to play with the boys.   The bad part was that girl never played any sports again,  her father apologized to me years later, but the girl was discouraged from playing sports because she was forced to play co-ed.   

If you want to argue that girls and boys should not play organized sports together, that's a separate argument. I would agree that I think they should be separate in contact sports, but not for the reasons you have stated.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-03-2018, 01:53 PM)GMDino Wrote:

I normally avoid posting in most of these type of threads, but I have to say this...

The top 4 scorers on that '08-'09 team were:
6'0, 178lbs
5'7, 139lbs
6'4, 192lbs
5'10, 170lbs

The top 4 scorers on the '17-'18 men's Villanova team were:
6'3, 199lbs
6'7, 191lbs
6'5, 200lbs
6'9, 260lbs

Women's Average: 5'11, 170lbs (John Ross is 5'11, 188lbs)
Men's Average: 6'6, 213lbs (AJ Green is 6'4, 210lbs)

That's an average of 7" and 43lb difference. That's huge.

If you want a more accurate time reference, the '07-'08 UConn Men's team (3 were Sophomores)...
6'7, 243lbs
6'2, 181lbs
7'3, 263lbs
6'9, 210lbs

Average of 6'8, 224lbs .... a 9" and 54lb difference.

[*bfine32*]

They OP is silly. When I was growing up I wanted to be around as many girls as I could once I realized what my outty was for,

[GMDino]

(05-03-2018, 04:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I normally avoid posting in most of these type of threads, but I have to say this...

The top 4 scorers on that '08-'09 team were:
6'0, 178lbs
5'7, 139lbs
6'4, 192lbs
5'10, 170lbs

The top 4 scorers on the '17-'18 men's Villanova team were:
6'3, 199lbs
6'7, 191lbs
6'5, 200lbs
6'9, 260lbs

Women's Average: 5'11, 170lbs (John Ross is 5'11, 188lbs)
Men's Average: 6'6, 213lbs (AJ Green is 6'4, 210lbs)

That's an average of 7" and 43lb difference. That's huge.

If you want a more accurate time reference, the '07-'08 UConn Men's team (3 were Sophomores)...
6'7, 243lbs
6'2, 181lbs
7'3, 263lbs
6'9, 210lbs

Average of 6'8, 224lbs .... a 9" and 54lb difference.

And basketball still isn't a "boys activity". 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-03-2018, 04:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: And basketball still isn't a "boys activity". 

Oh sorry, I think there was a misunderstanding between us. I wasn't arguing that women shouldn't play basketball. I have a sister who got a college scholarship playing basketball. I was just arguing that coed sports is kind of silly because men and women are simply undeniably physically different, it's not an even playing field.

You posted a picture of an undefeated women's team, so I thought you were arguing something different. We're on the same page here, I believe.

[GMDino]

(05-03-2018, 05:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Oh sorry, I think there was a misunderstanding between us. I wasn't arguing that women shouldn't play basketball. I have a sister who got a college scholarship playing basketball. I was just arguing that coed sports is kind of silly because men and women are simply undeniably physically different, it's not an even playing field.

You posted a picture of an undefeated women's team, so I thought you were arguing something different. We're on the same page here, I believe.

I have little doubt that bigger stronger will beat smaller no matter what.  Now in a pick up game I know some girls that would beat boys easily.

But yeah, I was more along the line of basketball being a "boys activity".

[StLucieBengal]

(05-03-2018, 01:53 PM)GMDino Wrote:




 
What if they both play had and the boys lose? 


Ever think you only had to "tone it down" because your out of control action caused a serious injury? Whether it was a boy or a girl?




This should be good....


So they never learn their "limitation" and are never pushed by people (boys, you say) better than them?

Sad.

1. I have seen teenage boys play against UCONN girls hoops players and it’s not even close. The closest I ever saw was Megan Duffy, who went to ND and played in the WNBA. Even she was beat up.

2. You don’t tone it down while playing any sport. You have a responsibility to your teammates, your competitors, your coaches, and yourself to always play hard. Toning it down is disrespectful to all involved.

3. Their limitation is the inability to participate in boys only activities. Sports, Boy Scouts, or any club. Girls have their own clubs, Girl Scouts, sports, etc. boys are rightfully limited in those as well. Everyone needs a place to go away from the opposite sex.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-03-2018, 03:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Playing basketball is not a "boy activity". Sure, boys might be more inclined to play sports, but that doesn't make it a "boy activity" anymore than cooking is strictly a 'girl activity'.
Again, that's not been my experience. If anything boys don't want to lose to "a girl" and will make sure they win no matter what. But, it's been my experience, even dating back to when I was a child, that if a girl had skills, she was more than welcome.
Yes, but learning that ANYONE can play basketball and should be allowed to play basketball even if they're different is more important than 'learning their limits'. And that's not even addressing the fact, that allowing girls to play can still help boys learn their limits.
If you want to argue that girls and boys should not play organized sports together, that's a separate argument. I would agree that I think they should be separate in contact sports, but not for the reasons you have stated.

I never said basketball was boys only. There is a girls division. I support girls playing basketball. I do not support co-ed. I believe this is dangerous and will discourage girls from participating in sports. This is the exact purpose of girls sports.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-03-2018, 04:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: And basketball still isn't a "boys activity". 

(05-03-2018, 05:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Oh sorry, I think there was a misunderstanding between us. I wasn't arguing that women shouldn't play basketball. I have a sister who got a college scholarship playing basketball. I was just arguing that coed sports is kind of silly because men and women are simply undeniably physically different, it's not an even playing field.

You posted a picture of an undefeated women's team, so I thought you were arguing something different. We're on the same page here, I believe.

When boys are playing basketball it’s a boys activity. As I stated. Never did I say girls shouldn’t be playing basketball. They should most certainly be playing girls basketball and boys shouldn’t be interefering.

But please continue or misrepresent my post.

[Belsnickel]

Considering that the BSA is still separating out girls and boys in their Cub Scouting and Scouting units, I'm not seeing how their policy shifts caused this thread or the article. I still see a ton of separation of the genders in activities for kids.

Oh well, snowflakes gotta be upset about something.

[BmorePat87]

(05-03-2018, 07:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh well, snowflakes gotta be upset about something.

That's why the Daily Wire exists.

[fredtoast]

(05-03-2018, 04:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I normally avoid posting in most of these type of threads, but I have to say this...

The top 4 scorers on that '08-'09 team were:
6'0, 178lbs
5'7, 139lbs
6'4, 192lbs
5'10, 170lbs

The top 4 scorers on the '17-'18 men's Villanova team were:
6'3, 199lbs
6'7, 191lbs
6'5, 200lbs
6'9, 260lbs

Women's Average: 5'11, 170lbs (John Ross is 5'11, 188lbs)
Men's Average: 6'6, 213lbs (AJ Green is 6'4, 210lbs)

That's an average of 7" and 43lb difference. That's huge.

If you want a more accurate time reference, the '07-'08 UConn Men's team (3 were Sophomores)...
6'7, 243lbs
6'2, 181lbs
7'3, 263lbs
6'9, 210lbs

Average of 6'8, 224lbs .... a 9" and 54lb difference.

And these girls would destroy you on a basketball court.  They are proof that girls can be better than a lot of boys.

[fredtoast]

When I was in college the Lady Vols basketball team would run with the guys in pick up games at the rec center. Not a one of you would have dared tell them that they could not play with the guys.


Real men don't need space to hide from women. What are your sons going to do when they get jobs in the real world and start crying for a "men only space"?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-04-2018, 10:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And these girls would destroy you on a basketball court.  They are proof that girls can be better than a lot of boys.

And I can destroy an elemantary school girl in basketball, or a blind girl in basketball, is that proof that I can be better than a lot of girls in basketball? What a stupid comparison, and useless addition to the conversation. I am terrible at basketball, have never played on a basketball team in my life.

The worst NBA team would destroy the best WNBA team. Could the US Women's National Soccer Team beat a men's u-15 team? No.

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/







Good contribution to the thread, Fred. So glad as always that you chimed in.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2018, 11:01 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And I can destroy an elemantary school girl in basketball, or a blind girl in basketball, is that proof that I can be better than a lot of girls in basketball? What a stupid comparison, and useless addition to the conversation. I am terrible at basketball, have never played on a basketball team in my life.

The worst NBA team would destroy the best WNBA team. Could they have beaten a men's HS State Championship team? No.

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/







Good contribution to the thread, Fred. So glad as always that you chimed in.

All I needed for you to do was admit that women can bet better than men at basketball.  That was my point.  Nothing about different ages or handicapped people.  Just men and women the same age where some women are better than the men.

So now tell me why girls should not be allowed to play basketball with boys.

[Beaker]

Why did girls need to be admitted to Boys Scouts when we already have Girl scouts? There was no big push for boys to be admitted to girl scouts.