California Passes SB 277 Forcing All Children To Get Vaccinated

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 07:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Do you know how hard it actually is to contract HIV? Believe me, that should concern you far less than the food service workers out there with Hepatitis not washing their hands after using the restroom.

We are all responsible for our own choices where to eat.

And hepatitis a will pass. Just some nausea, fatigue, and other minor concerns.... Hep b has some meds.

Not that big of a deal. Not big enough to warrant the loss of freedom.

[Belsnickel]

(05-20-2015, 07:13 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: We are all responsible for our own choices where to eat.  

And hepatitis a will pass.   Just some nausea, fatigue, and other minor concerns.... Hep b has some meds.  

Not that big of a deal.   Not big enough to warrant the loss of freedom.

I'm just saying, HIV is irrelevant to this conversation. Every other disease being discussed is spread easily from person to person. HIV is very difficult to contract. Unless you're having unprotected butt sex, of course.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-20-2015, 06:00 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Stop using fear to take away someone's rights.

Not fear, facts.  

Quote:Eveyone is responsible for their own health.    We let people with AIDS walk around so where is the outcry for public health?????

Moronic statement, even for you.

Quote:Your using fear and idea of safety as a reason to tell people what to do....  You don't babe the right to do that and no one should be able to take that away in a free society.

Who does babe the right then? So I should be able to light up a cigarette anywhere I please right? It's my health and I'm the only one responsible for it. You don't babe the right to tell me otherwise.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 07:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Who does babe the right then?  So I should be able to light up a cigarette anywhere I please right?  It's my health and I'm the only one responsible for it.  You don't babe the right to tell me otherwise.

You should be able to smoke. I do think private business have the right to have no smoking. But the gov shouldn't be telling you not to smoke.

And just so you know.... I have never smoked and loathe smoking and the smell... However .... You have the right to smoke where there is a smoking establishment or in public.

If schools wanna limit kids who havent had vaccines then that's fine .... Same for day cares. No problem making it harder on the families who choose to not have vaccines ....

You are using fear. There is a small chance of infection. If there was a larger one no one would go out .... Plenty of illegal immigrants who haven't had all vaccines. Yet we don't stop them from getting benefits.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 07:20 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm just saying, HIV is irrelevant to this conversation. Every other disease being discussed is spread easily from person to person. HIV is very difficult to contract. Unless you're having unprotected butt sex, of course.

Lol I know but the chance on infection is so small.... This is nothing more than fear mongering to force vaccines..... We go to Disney and are around loads who haven't been vaccinated. Yet loads still go to Disney and we don't think twice.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-20-2015, 07:43 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You should be able to smoke.  I do think private business have the right to have no smoking.   But the gov shouldn't be telling you not to smoke.  

And just so you know.... I have never smoked and loathe smoking and the smell... However .... You have the right to smoke where there is a smoking establishment or in public.

At least you're being somewhat consistent.  

Quote:If schools wanna limit kids who havent had vaccines then that's fine .... Same for day cares.   No problem making it harder on the families who choose to not have vaccines ....  

That doesn't prevent said children from being in public and exposing infants to possible fatal illness.

Quote:You are using fear.   There is a small chance of infection.

Small is debatable but what isn't is the fact that the more people who aren't vaccinated raises the possible chance of this occurring.

Quote:If there was a larger one no one would go out .... Plenty of illegal immigrants  who haven't had all vaccines.  Yet we don't stop them from getting benefits.

Actually the vaccination rates south of the border are rather high.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS/countries

You'll not that Mexico's rate was higher in every year since 2010 with the exception of 2013.

Aggregate percentage for those four year is 91.75% for the US and 95.25% for Mexico.

Guess that argument's defeated.

Even better, more current statistics that further riddle your inane argument.

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/mexico_statistics.html

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/usa_statistics.html

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 07:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: At least you're being somewhat consistent.  



That doesn't prevent said children from being in public and exposing infants to possible fatal illness.


Small is debatable but what isn't is the fact that the more people who aren't vaccinated raises the possible chance of this occurring.


Actually the vaccination rates south of the border are rather high.  

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS/countries

You'll not that Mexico's rate was higher in every year since 2010 with the exception of 2013.

Aggregate percentage for those four year is 91.75% for the US and 95.25% for Mexico.

Guess that argument's defeated.  

Vaccination rates in Europe and Asia.... There are illegals from more places than Mexico. And it's not about them not getting vaccines.... It's about parents having the right to dictate health treatments for their children here.

I am fully consistent .... Not somewhat. But nice try testing that...

When your in public your taking a chance. What's the % chance of infection?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-20-2015, 08:03 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Vaccination rates in Europe and Asia....  There are illegals from more places than Mexico.

Yes, I'm sure you meant the illegal immigrants from Europe and Asia prior to my annihilating your claim about illegal immigrants with low vaccination rates.  Troll harder.

 

Quote:And it's not about them not getting vaccines.... It's about parents having the right to dictate health treatments for their children here.

It's not about them being vaccinated?  Yet you clearly stated;

Quote:Plenty of illegal immigrants who haven't had all vaccines. 

Quote:I am fully consistent .... Not somewhat.   But nice try testing that...

The above statements would prove otherwise.  You should be pleased I gave you as much credit as I did.

Quote:When your in public your taking a chance.  What's the % chance of infection?

Higher than the risk of an adverse reaction from a vaccine.  


/thread

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 11:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, I'm sure you meant the illegal immigrants from Europe and Asia prior to my annihilating your claim about illegal immigrants with low vaccination rates.  Troll harder.

 


It's not about them being vaccinated?  Yet you clearly stated;




The above statements would prove otherwise.  You should be pleased I gave you as much credit as I did.


Higher than the risk of an adverse reaction from a vaccine.  


/thread

Thread? You said nothing but jibber jabbar.

Face it you wanna take away parents right to make health decisions for their kids. Your probably someone on here who will blather on about respecting a woman's body to have an abortion but you won't respect a parents right to make health decisions for their kids.

Just get it over and admit you wanna take away parents rights.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-21-2015, 12:01 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Thread?  You said nothing but jibber jabbar.

It's always telling when someone ignores a point by point dissection of their argument with a general post. You're not alone in your intellectual dishonesty so take some solace in that I guess.  

Quote:Face it you wanna take away parents right to make health decisions for their kids.

In some instances yes. I don't think a christ scientist should be allowed to condemn their child to death because of their myopic religion. I also don't believe you should endanger infants because of pseudo science or religious bull crap.

 

Quote: Your probably someone on here who will blather on about respecting a woman's body to have an abortion but you won't respect a parents right to make health decisions for their kids.

 

An abortion doesn't affect me, or anyone else, at all. Your measles infested anti-vax child is both a victim of child abuse and a danger to others. Like I stated to Phil, false equivalency is the argument of choice the past several years.

Quote:Just get it over and admit you wanna take away parents rights.

Case in point.

[SteelCitySouth]

(05-20-2015, 07:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Lol I know but the chance on infection is so small.... This is nothing more than fear mongering to force vaccines..... We go to Disney and are around loads who haven't been vaccinated.   Yet loads still go to Disney and we don't think twice.

LOL

http://www.thetimesinplainenglish.com/wp/disneyland-ground-zero-for-measles-outbreak/

[*PhilHos*]

(05-20-2015, 01:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, when your choices impact on public health and safety this is no longer a choice you are allowed to make.  The exact same logic is why you can't smoke indoors in most of the country.

And I think that that is stupid, too. And I'm a non-smoker.

(05-20-2015, 01:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If your kid not being circumcised exposed me infant to a possibly fatal disease then we'd have the beginning of a comparison.  False equivalency is probably the primary reason why public and political discourse in this country has become a joke.

Wait, so if I vaccinated my kid and you didn't, somehow my kid could end up with a fatal disease, what?

I assume you're also in favor of a ban on all firearms? I mean, we are talking about public safety.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-20-2015, 07:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Do you know how hard it actually is to contract HIV? Believe me, that should concern you far less than the food service workers out there with Hepatitis not washing their hands after using the restroom.

I agree with you that the government should force all of us to wash our hands after using the rest room. It should be a crime to not wash your hands. Public safety ALWAYS comes before an individual's rights. It's right there in the constitution.

[Belsnickel]

(05-21-2015, 12:18 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I agree with you that the government should force all of us to wash our hands after using the rest room. It should be a crime to not wash your hands. Public safety ALWAYS comes before an individual's rights. It's right there in the constitution.

Except my post in no way advocated such a thing. Just that the fear of contracting HIV is ridiculous and there are many more things out there to be concerned with.

Side note, though, since I specified food service workers there are already laws in regards to them specifically.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-20-2015, 07:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That doesn't prevent said children from being in public and exposing infants to possible fatal illness.

Hate to break this to you, but nothing can 100% prevent children whether in public or at home from being exposed to illnesses, fatal or otherwise.

Using your logic, we might as well outlaw peanuts. I mean, there are tons of kids with peanut allergies so severe that just the smell of peanuts puts them in anaphylactic shock and there are more and more everyday. Might as well start now with the gluten ban as well. Heck, let's start a war on bees to protect our children!!!

[Johnny Cupcakes]

All children should be vaccinated, and it should not be up to their idiot parents as to whether or not they have the best opportunity to live a healthy life and not spread disease.

[SteelCitySouth]

(05-21-2015, 12:18 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I agree with you that the government should force all of us to wash our hands after using the rest room. It should be a crime to not wash your hands. Public safety ALWAYS comes before an individual's rights. It's right there in the constitution.

Man...We get vaccinations for diseases that are highly contagious, and have high mortality or bodily degeneration rates, with high likelihood of mass contraction. Stop with all this strawman/slippery slope arguments that do not deal with all of the above.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-21-2015, 01:52 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: In some instances yes.  I don't think a christ scientist should be allowed to condemn their child to death because of their myopic religion.  I also don't believe you should endanger infants because of pseudo science or religious bull crap.

And you're perfectly in your rights to feel that way, but your beliefs should not trample on other people's rights. If some religious idiot thinks that it's a sin to let their child be seen by a physician, then that's their right. If that child dies, well, that's one less religious idiot in the world, right? (I mean, if they lived, they're just going to grow up with their parents' beliefs anyways.)

Just because you don't like something is not reason enough to force governmental intrusion into other people's lives. Couch it in terms of public safety all you like, the fact is that this issue is not endemic enough to warrant the blatant removal of parent's constitutional rights.

    

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-21-2015, 12:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Hate to break this to you, but nothing can 100% prevent children whether in public or at home from being exposed to illnesses, fatal or otherwise.

Shocking!

Quote:Using your logic, we might as well outlaw peanuts. I mean, there are tons of kids with peanut allergies so severe that just the smell of peanuts puts them in anaphylactic shock and there are more and more everyday. Might as well start now with the gluten ban as well. Heck, let's start a war on bees to protect our children!!!

Nope, and yet more false equivalency from you Phil.

(05-21-2015, 12:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And you're perfectly in your rights to feel that way, but your beliefs should not trample on other people's rights. If some religious idiot thinks that it's a sin to let their child be seen by a physician, then that's their right. If that child dies, well, that's one less religious idiot in the world, right? (I mean, if they lived, they're just going to grow up with their parents' beliefs anyways.)

Actually, it's quite illegal for a person to let a child die because they refuse to get medical attention due to religious belief.

Quote:Just because you don't like something is not reason enough to force governmental intrusion into other people's lives. Couch it in terms of public safety all you like, the fact is that this issue is not endemic enough to warrant the blatant removal of parent's constitutional rights.

    

Oh, I agree, my disliking something is not reason enough to force anyone to do anything. Someone exposing infants to deadly diseases by choice is enough reason. It's not endemic now because enough smart people still exist that get their kids vaccinated. Thankfully it won't become endemic now that we won't allow people to opt out.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-21-2015, 01:52 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's always telling when someone ignores a point by point dissection of their argument with a general post.  You're not alone in your intellectual dishonesty so take some solace in that I guess.    


In some instances yes.  I don't think a christ scientist should be allowed to condemn their child to death because of their myopic religion.  I also don't believe you should endanger infants because of pseudo science or religious bull crap.

    

An abortion doesn't affect me, or anyone else, at all.  Your measles infested anti-vax child is both a victim of child abuse and a danger to others.  Like I stated to Phil, false equivalency is the argument of choice the past several years.


Case in point.

Your supposed "point by point" is just you announcing that someone is wrong. And giving no legitimate response.

I also never said anything about religion... Why are you? It's not pertinent to parental rights to make health decisions for their kids. Or were you just clinging to your preset topics to insult.

And an abortion does affect us all. We subsidize low income abortions which is the majority of them. Plus the post depression meds.

Not getting a vaccine does not mean child abuse. Please educate yourself on what actual child abuse is.... Your a cop you should know better than that.....