California Passes SB 277 Forcing All Children To Get Vaccinated

[Benton]

(05-19-2015, 04:41 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Or maybe basic budgeting and not expecting a house or lifestyle like our parents at age 25.

I didn't. But at 25 my parents could afford a house. When I was 25, I could afford to rent. I don't know if that's true for the majority of people, but it was for the majority of the people I knew. Most of the people I went to high school and college with are just now getting into home ownership 15-20 years after getting out of school.

[Benton]

I had paid leave when my daughter was born. Was a lifesaver. My wife's insurance covered her time off and, due to some complications that ended up sidelining her for a few weeks, I was able to stay home and take care of both of them. I had four weeks, but only used three of it.

It wasn't a huge thing, but I was thankful for it.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-19-2015, 06:35 PM)Benton Wrote: I didn't. But at 25 my parents could afford a house. When I was 25, I could afford to rent. I don't know if that's true for the majority of people, but it was for the majority of the people I knew. Most of the people I went to high school and college with are just now getting into home ownership 15-20 years after getting out of school.

I think this type stuff is a result of the gov insuring student loans. I think its a trap and loads up people with debt which puts us all behind the 8 ball. Graduating with lifelong debt has hampered lives. Versus us having to work and pay as we went.

[Belsnickel]

(05-20-2015, 09:40 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I think this type stuff is a result of the gov insuring student loans.  I think its a trap and loads up people with debt which puts us all behind the 8 ball.   Graduating with lifelong debt has hampered lives.   Versus us having to work and pay as we went.

I had no student loans. I got out of college debt free. Still couldn't afford a home at the age of 25.

Sure, the student debt thing is a big issue, but that is just one of many things causing this in the country.

[SteelCitySouth]

(05-20-2015, 09:40 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I think this type stuff is a result of the gov insuring student loans.  I think its a trap and loads up people with debt which puts us all behind the 8 ball.   Graduating with lifelong debt has hampered lives.   Versus us having to work and pay as we went.

I think it is a combination of that and the ever widening wage gap and the shrinking middle class. It is not hard to see that the working class has been on the short end of the stick when it comes to wages vs inflation over the last 30 years, as well that monetary value has shifted up. Couple this with school loans and you have some of what is causing what we see today.

[Benton]

(05-20-2015, 09:40 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I think this type stuff is a result of the gov insuring student loans.  I think its a trap and loads up people with debt which puts us all behind the 8 ball.   Graduating with lifelong debt has hampered lives.   Versus us having to work and pay as we went.

Eh I don't think so. Look at the cost of college through the years. After the 70-80s, it goes into overdrive. Like the cost of most things.

Just a personal story, which doesn't mean much. My mom went to college and took out student loans. She also worked full time. The job money paid for her college expenses, she banked the loan money in a sayings account and drew more interest than what she eventually owed as the interest on the loan didn't kick in until.after school. On the flipside, I worked and went to school off and on as I could afford it over six years. I took out two students loans, took more than a year to pay off.

The government making assistance available isn't the reason the price of goods and services is significantly hgher than it was a few decades ago.

[SteelCitySouth]

(05-20-2015, 09:55 AM)Benton Wrote: The government making assistance available isn't the reason the price of goods and services is significantly hgher than it was a few decades ago.

Not so sure that I agree with this. feel like is certainly has some to do with it.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 09:55 AM)Benton Wrote: Eh I don't think so. Look at the cost of college through the years. After the 70-80s, it goes into overdrive. Like the cost of most things.

Just a personal story, which doesn't mean much. My mom went to college and took out student loans. She also worked full time. The job money paid for her college expenses, she banked the loan money in a sayings account and drew more interest than what she eventually owed as the interest on the loan didn't kick in until.after school. On the flipside, I worked and went to school off and on as I could afford it over six years. I took out two students loans, took more than a year to pay off.

The government making assistance available isn't the reason the price of goods and services is significantly hgher than it was a few decades ago.

Went into overdrive when gov guaranteed all loans. It's a boon doggle to funnel money to professors

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 09:50 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I think it is a combination of that and the ever widening wage gap and the shrinking middle class.  It is not hard to see that the working class has been on the short end of the stick when it comes to wages vs inflation over the last 30 years, as well that monetary value has shifted up.  Couple this with school loans and you have some of what is causing what we see today.

This is for RG's post as well. I know it's not the only thing.... It's just one example . As far as wage gap.... What jobs are your speaking of? What are we calling "working class" jobs? Certainly we can't count intro level jobs as "working class"

For me I can say that I make much more than I made as a teacher... But any sales/investing job is like that

Would be curious if we could lay out "working claas" jobs and then maybe delve further into those.

And RG ... Did you choose to make less by going to work where your working instead of more lucrative options? It's reasonable to take less for the added security.

[Belsnickel]

(05-20-2015, 11:29 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This is for RG's post as well.   I know it's not the only thing.... It's just one example .  As far as wage gap....  What jobs are your speaking of?    What are we calling "working class" jobs?  Certainly we can't count intro level jobs as "working class"

For me I can say that I make much more than I made as a teacher... But any sales/investing job is like that

Would be curious if we could lay out "working claas" jobs and then maybe delve further into those.  

And RG ... Did you choose to make less by going to work where your working instead of more lucrative options?  It's reasonable to take less for the added security.

It could be argued that I am currently choosing to make less with where I am, but the wage gaps even here are evident. Our salaries are all public record, so it's easy to look at the disparity that exists.

But, at 25 I was working for Rosetta Stone as a Tax Accountant, I had been bumped up from Jr. Tax Accountant, the entry level position. There was one person between myself and the CFO on the corporate chain. The person one rung up made about $20k more than me, which was understandable. The CFO made 5 times his salary, however, and the CEO made twice that.

The wage cap in the corporate world is tremendous, and you can find all sorts of articles about it. It's clear evidence of the destruction of the middle class, if not the cause of it.

[GMDino]

Just remember that there was a time in this country where workers wages rose with the profits of the company...now only top management does.

And if the top managers fail? Start by laying off the minimum wage workers. If that doesn't save the company let the top guy go...with a nice severance package for his problems.

We have so much assbackwards in this country its probably impossible to turn it around. And all done in the name of "Capitalism" and the "Free market".

But telling people to stop listening to celebrities who are basing their beliefs on proven falsehoods and to start getting the chiuldren immuinzed so we are ALL safe is seen as an over-reach by some.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 11:37 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It could be argued that I am currently choosing to make less with where I am, but the wage gaps even here are evident. Our salaries are all public record, so it's easy to look at the disparity that exists.

But, at 25 I was working for Rosetta Stone as a Tax Accountant, I had been bumped up from Jr. Tax Accountant, the entry level position. There was one person between myself and the CFO on the corporate chain. The person one rung up made about $20k more than me, which was understandable. The CFO made 5 times his salary, however, and the CEO made twice that.

The wage cap in the corporate world is tremendous, and you can find all sorts of articles about it. It's clear evidence of the destruction of the middle class, if not the cause of it.

So your ok with the salary of the CFO? But not the CEO? The CEO is a tough job to get and is easily replaceable since job security is based on production.

Not everyone can make what CEO's make and they can't make what a jr accountant make.... Because no one would accept the responsibility and pressure associated with that job.

It has more to do with qualifications. If your a CEO your not in a secure position... Most of they "middle class" jobs are slotted dollar amounts usually by unions which stifle earning power for the best workers to help the worst workers .

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 12:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: Just remember that there was a time in this country where workers wages rose with the profits of the company...now only top management does.

And if the top managers fail?  Start by laying off the minimum wage workers.  If that doesn't save the company let the top guy go...with a nice severance package for his problems.

We have so much assbackwards in this country its probably impossible to turn it around.  And all done in the name of "Capitalism" and the "Free market".

But telling people to stop listening to celebrities who are basing their beliefs on proven falsehoods and to start getting the chiuldren immuinzed so we are ALL safe is seen as an over-reach by some.

Unions hurt that.... We did it this was pre Hubert Hoover.... We used to lower wages in tough times and rise in great times. Hoover forced employers to not drop wages when we had a recession.... Not dropping the wages and have a QE drove us into the depression. Not to mention the spending on public works.

[Belsnickel]

(05-20-2015, 12:39 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So your ok with the salary of the CFO? But not the CEO?  The CEO is a tough job to get and is easily replaceable since job security is based on production.    

Not everyone can make what CEO's make and they can't make what a jr accountant make.... Because no one would accept the responsibility and pressure associated with that job.  

It has more to do with qualifications.   If your a CEO your not in a secure position... Most of they "middle class" jobs are slotted dollar amounts usually by unions which stifle earning power for the best workers to help the worst workers .

No, the CFO's salary was ridiculous as well. The person between me and the CFO was the Controller. And I'm not saying they should make what an entry level, or even middle level position makes because I recognize the difference. In all honesty, our company wasn't that bad.

CEO compensation has gone from 42 times the average worker to 354 times the average worker in a 30 year span, and has been widening for years before that. This is what we are talking about when we refer to the wage gap.

And you can stop with the union talk when it comes to any figures I discuss, we don't do unions around these parts, even in the public sector.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-16-2015, 02:30 PM)Steeler Eater Wrote: I for one stand behind this and don't understand why you would put your kids at risk for reasons that aren't ever backed up except with opinions.

http://www.thestandarddaily.com/california-passes-sb-277-bill-forcing-all-children-to-get-vaccinated-before-kindergarten/1985/

I can't believe there are people in favor of this.

I get it, it's stupid to not vaccinate your kids. My kids were vaccinated (and I'm a church-going Christian) and any future kids will be also. But, are we really going to force people this upon people? Seriously? In the land of the free?

How many of you that are fine with this would be okay if a state mandated that all boys be circumsized? I have to assume that you'd all be in favor for it, right?

[SteelCitySouth]

(05-20-2015, 12:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I can't believe there are people in favor of this.

I get it, it's stupid to not vaccinate your kids. My kids were vaccinated (and I'm a church-going Christian) and any future kids will be also. But, are we really going to force people this upon people? Seriously? In the land of the free?

How many of you that are fine with this would be okay if a state mandated that all boys be circumsized? I have to assume that you'd all be in favor for it, right?

You're example is laughable. It in no way places others in danger to have foreskin.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-20-2015, 12:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I can't believe there are people in favor of this.

I get it, it's stupid to not vaccinate your kids. My kids were vaccinated (and I'm a church-going Christian) and any future kids will be also. But, are we really going to force people this upon people? Seriously? In the land of the free?

Yes, when your choices impact on public health and safety this is no longer a choice you are allowed to make. The exact same logic is why you can't smoke indoors in most of the country.

Quote:How many of you that are fine with this would be okay if a state mandated that all boys be circumsized? I have to assume that you'd all be in favor for it, right?

If your kid not being circumcised exposed me infant to a possibly fatal disease then we'd have the beginning of a comparison. False equivalency is probably the primary reason why public and political discourse in this country has become a joke.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 12:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I can't believe there are people in favor of this.

I get it, it's stupid to not vaccinate your kids. My kids were vaccinated (and I'm a church-going Christian) and any future kids will be also. But, are we really going to force people this upon people? Seriously? In the land of the free?

How many of you that are fine with this would be okay if a state mandated that all boys be circumsized? I have to assume that you'd all be in favor for it, right?

I'm so with you on this.... It's amazing what we have come to as a society

[StLucieBengal]

(05-20-2015, 01:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, when your choices impact on public health and safety this is no longer a choice you are allowed to make.  The exact same logic is why you can't smoke indoors in most of the country.


If your kid not being circumcised exposed me infant to a possibly fatal disease then we'd have the beginning of a comparison.  False equivalency is probably the primary reason why public and political discourse in this country has become a joke.

Stop using fear to take away someone's rights.

Eveyone is responsible for their own health. We let people with AIDS walk around so where is the outcry for public health?????

Your using fear and idea of safety as a reason to tell people what to do.... You don't babe the right to do that and no one should be able to take that away in a free society.

[Belsnickel]

(05-20-2015, 06:00 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Stop using fear to take away someone's rights.  

Eveyone is responsible for their own health.    We let people with AIDS walk around so where is the outcry for public health?????

Your using fear and idea of safety as a reason to tell people what to do....  You don't babe the right to do that and no one should be able to take that away in a free society.

Do you know how hard it actually is to contract HIV? Believe me, that should concern you far less than the food service workers out there with Hepatitis not washing their hands after using the restroom.