Christian Terrorists Kill American Civilians and Shoot Police

[Vas Deferens]

(11-30-2015, 01:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: There is nothing wrong with such posts about the people involved...nothing at all.  And perhaps we should be MORE concerned about them than what to "think" about each event.  However this thread was presented as a rebuttal to the multitude of recent posts about the refugees that should be banned due to "violence" they "might" bring with them.

Bingo.

More convenient to some agenda's to move the discussion elsewhere.  Sad.

[*bfine32*]

(11-30-2015, 01:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: So it is a very slow day here (first day of hunting in PA) and I had time to go back an reread this thread to see if perhaps it had gone off-course somehow.

Just to recap.  

This thread was never about the victims.  Clearly no one wants to diminish the innocent lives lost to a terrorist.  

The thread, this board usually, is to discuss the political and social implications of such attacks and events.  While there is often something said about the real world lives lost the vast majority of the posts here are not about that.

There is nothing wrong with such posts about the people involved...nothing at all.  And perhaps we should be MORE concerned about them than what to "think" about each event.  However this thread was presented as a rebuttal to the multitude of recent posts about the refugees that should be banned due to "violence" they "might" bring with them.

Specifically, however, some wanted to change the tone of the thread to fit their political/social agenda and then claim the OP (and others) had no heart because the thread wasn't about what they now want it to be.








It took until this post to mention the victims.








And after being shown how wrong he was...we go back to the victims.



And after being called out, again:


We play the martyr card:



Just wanted to get all that in before the posts disappear (again) or it is claimed "no one cares about the victims" (again).

This is quite pathetic and borderline disturbing.

[Vas Deferens]

(11-30-2015, 06:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is quite pathetic and borderline disturbing.

How so?

[*michaelsean*]

(11-30-2015, 05:29 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Bingo.

More convenient to some agenda's to move the discussion elsewhere.  Sad.

Some's agenda?

Like the creation of this thread?

[*bfine32*]

(11-30-2015, 06:04 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: How so?

That someone would be obsessed enough to go back and quote every post in a feeble attempt to demonstarte he is "right"?

Now that I have given you an answer how about weighing in on the point of contention. Is motive required to determine if an act is one of terrorism or not?

Sorta like the OP stated Christian Religion was motivation for this act.

[GMDino]

(11-30-2015, 06:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is quite pathetic and borderline disturbing.

I know...I thought the same as I read all your replies in one place.

[Vas Deferens]

(11-30-2015, 06:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That someone would be obsessed enough to go back and quote every post in a feeble attempt to demonstarte he is "right"?

Now that I have given you an answer how about weighing in on the point of contention. Is motive required to determine if an act is one of terrorism or not?

Sorta like the OP stated Christian Religion was motivation for this act.

My original point of contention is highlighted above.  To your point of contention, as I understand it, yes - motive is one of the criteria involved in the definition of terrorism.

It is pretty clear to me this individual had a religious / political agenda he was working from.  Are you still doubting this?  I apologize if I'm misunderstanding your question.  I initially titled the thread as such to position this instance against the slander of other religions / races currently taking place around here.

If you are merely saying we need to wait until we specifically know every detail of this individuals life in order to determine motive, go for it.  Like I said previously, the fervor and vitriol conjured up with the PP videos pandered to people religiously opposed to abortion.  If you don't want to have an abortion, don't have one.  But don't stand in other people's way of obtaining one if they wish.  Unfortunately those videos ended up pushing this guy to take up arms and go on a killing spree.  

  

[Vas Deferens]

(11-28-2015, 01:29 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 1. Congrats on your Iranian gf.   Not sure why you added that detail.   But I'm glad to hear you are happy.  

2.  I would take you up if there was not a history of you guys moving the mark constantly.  

3. As far as the hearings.   They were only over 60 million in discretionary spending.   Killing babies and population control are unfortunately engrained in society as acceptable.   Hard to roll back 100 years.    

Not sure why you roll me into Radical ...  I have never threatened or shown violence towards anyone who disagrees with my point of view.    And being opinionated on a bengals message board isn't radical.  

I do respect your willingness to throw some cash out there, and I hope you were sincere .  I also respect your frustration for the hearings.  Unfortunately most did not know what they were ever truly about and just ran with it .... That goes for both sides.  

4. You show a pattern of being reasonable and not constantly changing definitions and we can make some bets down the road.    Although I'm not sure betting on who loses their life next is in good taste.

The response I anticipated.

1.  Added that detail in there just to let you know I'm boning a chick you would classify a savage.  Not a big deal, she would classify you much worse, but based on your merits or lack thereof.

2.  Yeah.  I'll bet you would take me up.  It was pretty cut and dry, but you know what the outcome will be so you chose not to take that bet.

3.  I roll you into the radical category because thats the portrait you've painted.  I doubt you remember half of the claims you've made, but some of them have been violent and meant to intimidate portions of the populace through force or oppressive tactics.  Maybe its just you posturing and puffing up your feathers to make the internet know what a Type A kind of a guy you are, but you'll need to live with the outcome at this point.

4.  Who said anything about betting on who looses their life next?  I put the proposition on the table, you didn't want to take it.  Not very Type A of you.

As I said before.  I'm still going to make a donation to a womens reproductive health centered charity in your honor.  Going to reach out to a friend to see who she would suggest.  Hopefully they have an 'in honor of' section on the donation form.  

[Aquapod770]

Still waiting on V.D. to prove this dude is a Christian

[GMDino]

(12-01-2015, 02:37 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Still waiting on V.D. to prove this dude is a Christian

Well, it depends.  Do you believe this site:

http://www.wnd.com/2015/11/planned-parenthood-shooter-not-fitting-lefts-stereotype/

Quote:Throughout Friday’s six-hour armed standoff at the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood facility that left three dead and nine wounded, social media feasted on the fact the gunman was described as a white man, as WND reported.


It didn’t take long for that meager piece of information to morph into “Christian,” “pro-lifer,” and “Republican,” even though authorities had not then — or even yet — released any information about the gunman’s motive.

So far, Robert Lewis Dear, 57, of Hartsel, Colorado, is disappointing those who tried to stereotype pro-life Christians as terrorists.

No evidence of Dear’s involvement or even opinion on the issue of abortion or religion has surfaced. Pro-life groups denounced the shooting and indicated they had neither interacted with or heard of him.

Or this site that talked to people who knew him:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/former-wife-says-planned-parenthood-shooter-is-conservative-religious-and-anti-abortion/

Quote:People who knew the suspected gunman in the Colorado Springs shooting described him as a loner who was “weird” but had given few signs of violent behavior, US media reported Sunday.


Robert Lewis Dear, 57, is believed to have entered the Planned Parenthood clinic with a high-powered rifle on Friday and fire on police and civilians outside the building.

Dear allegedly shot and killed three people, including a police officer, and wounded five others, Colorado officials said.
The motive for the rampage however is unclear.

When questioned after his arrest Dear mentioned “no more baby parts” in reference to the abortions Planned Parenthood provides, NBC News reported, citing law enforcement officials.

In his rambling interview Dear also mentioned President Barack Obama, so the sources told NBC that it was unclear whether he targeted the clinic because of abortions.

Police have said little about Dear, who is being held without bail and will appear in court for an arraignment on Monday.

– ‘Very weird’ –

US media described Dear as a troubled loner who over the years had several minor brushes with the law.

In 1997, Dear’s then wife, Pamela Ross, once called the police to accuse him of domestic violence, The New York Times reported. Ross said that Dear could have flashes of anger, but usually he would later apologize.

Dear was politically conservative, religious, owned guns and believed that abortion was wrong — but he was not obsessed with any of these issues, Ross said.

“It never, ever, ever, ever crossed my mind” that he would be capable of a mass shooting, Ross told The Times. “My heart just fell to my stomach.”

After their amicable divorce in 2000, Dear lived in a series of trailer homes and remote cabins, mostly keeping to himself.

Or Ted Cruz:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/30/politics/ted-cruz-planned-parenthood-transgendered-leftist-activist/

Quote:Speaking about the alleged gunman, Robert Lewis Dear, at a campaign event in Iowa on Sunday, Cruz accused the media of wanting "to blame him on the pro-life movement when at this point there's very little evidence to indicate that." Audio of the comments was posted online by The Texas Tribune.


When a reporter told Cruz that the suspect in the Colorado Springs killings is alleged to have mentioned "baby parts" after his arrest, the Texas senator responded, "Well, it's also been reported that he was registered as an independent and a woman and transgendered leftist activist, if that's what he is."



Cruz was likely citing a report from The Gateway Pundit, a right-wing blog, that uncovered a Colorado state voter registration form which lists Dear's gender as female.


The term "transgendered" is considered offensive by the LGBT community. The appropriate usage when describing an individual, as explained by National Lesbian & Gay Journalists Association, is "transgender person," "transgender man" or "transgender woman."



A spokesperson for the Cruz campaign told Buzzfeed that the candidate was not suggesting anything in particular about the alleged killer's identity, and only made reference to the report in order "to make the point that we don't know all the details."

Take your pick.  

[Vas Deferens]

(12-01-2015, 02:37 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Still waiting on V.D. to prove this dude is a Christian

Can you prove he isn't?

[Rotobeast]

(12-01-2015, 03:08 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Can you prove he isn't?

Yes.
A true Christian would have never done something like he did.
If he was before, he ceased to be that day.


Before it gets brought up, I also believe a true Muslim would never do such a thing.

Crazy people exist in every demographic. 

[SteelCitySouth]

(12-01-2015, 03:19 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Yes.
A true Christian would have never done something like he did.
If he was before, he ceased to be that day.


Before it gets brought up, I also believe a true Muslim would never do such a thing.

Crazy people exist in every demographic. 

Opinion is far from proof.  Unless you claim to know the thoughts of god.  If hat is the case then bravo, you're crazier than I thought.  

[Benton]

(11-30-2015, 06:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That someone would be obsessed enough to go back and quote every post in a feeble attempt to demonstarte he is "right"?

 

Amnesia or dementia?

Anyway, I've stayed out of this thread largely because it's never good to jump to conclusions. But it's sounding more like it's got to do with extremist nature of the pro-life movement.

Quote:What moved a man to kill three people and wound nine others at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado has not been disclosed. But the suspect accused of carrying out the shooting spree, Robert Lewis Dear, made remarks about "baby parts" to investigators after his surrender, a law enforcement official told CNN.

Dear, 57, told them he has anti-abortion and anti-government views, but that doesn't mean those opinions were his motive for allegedly shooting up the Colorado Springs clinic on Friday, the official said. It's too early to tell, as investigators are still processing evidence.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/29/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/

[Vas Deferens]

(12-01-2015, 03:19 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Yes.
A true Christian would have never done something like he did.
If he was before, he ceased to be that day.


Before it gets brought up, I also believe a true Muslim would never do such a thing.

Crazy people exist in every demographic. 

Completely 100% Agree.  Couldn't agree any more.  Maximum amount of agreement has been reached.  My approval meter is redlining.

That's not to say he didn't believe he was acting on the moral authority instilled in him by his beliefs.

[Benton]

(12-01-2015, 03:23 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Opinion is far from proof.  Unless you claim to know the thoughts of god.  If hat is the case then bravo, you're crazier than I thought.  

Behold!



In it, Christians are told, in so many words, not to shoot people. Jews, not so much, but they stop reading after the first half.

[Vas Deferens]

(12-01-2015, 03:23 PM)Benton Wrote: Anyway, I've stayed out of this thread largely because it's never good to jump to conclusions. But it's sounding more like it's got to do with extremist nature of the pro-life movement.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/29/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/

Quote:Dear, 57, told them he has anti-abortion and anti-government views, but that doesn't mean those opinions were his motive for allegedly shooting up the Colorado Springs clinic on Friday, the official said. It's too early to tell, as investigators are still processing evidence.

Its going to be interesting to see how the Co Springs D.A. ***** foots around Dear's involvement and attachment to the pro-life movement.  That town does not want to paint that group in a bad light.

[Belsnickel]

(12-01-2015, 03:26 PM)Benton Wrote: Behold!



In it, Christians are told, in so many words, not to shoot people. Jews, not so much, but they stop reading after the first half.

More like 3/4ths.

[Benton]

(12-01-2015, 03:30 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Its going to be interesting to see how the Co Springs D.A. ***** foots around Dear's involvement and attachment to the pro-life movement.  That town does not want to paint that group in a bad light.

The judge, from what I've read, isn't helping anything by sealing everything this early. I get it could taint jury selection (at least, that's why I assume he's doing it), but it just makes people speculate more. But I'm more of a "throw all the information out there" advocate.

[*michaelsean*]

He may have been Christian, but that doesn't mean he did what he did because of Christianity. I would guess that in this country the majority of murderers would identify as Christian, but that doesn't mean they killed for Christianity.