Coronavirus

[*michaelsean*]

(03-11-2020, 11:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: What happens when you elect a man who thinks he knows more than everyone about everything, who doesn't like to read, can't listen to anything that opposes his "hunches", that thinks he is a successful businessman because he was given a business and despite running it and several others into the ground keeps getting propped up by outsiders?

You get a president that thinks the Coronavirus problem can best be handled by putting people in charge that all say he's doing a great job while lying about how they are handling everything and with economic tricks.

“We want to protect our shipping industry, our cruise ships ... we want to protect our airlines” — it’s remarkable how transparent Trump is about the fact he views a pandemic that’s killing people mainly as an economic problem pic.twitter.com/d3gTae3Lle

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) March 10, 2020

 

Lots of people are dying of things, including complications from other communicable diseases, but none are causing the economic damage this nonsense is.  

[GMDino]

(03-11-2020, 11:20 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Lots of people are dying of things, including complications from other communicable diseases, but none are causing the economic damage this nonsense is.  

Brought to you by the party of "how are we going to pay for it?" about anything that helps people like healthcare.

It's hilarious.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-11-2020, 11:41 AM)GMDino Wrote: Brought to you by the party of "how are we going to pay for it?" about anything that helps people like healthcare.

It's hilarious.

I don't say we have to bail them out, but ignoring the economic impact would be really stupid.

60,000 Americans died of complications of the flu last year, and that's with a vaccine. Where's the hysteria?

[GMDino]

(03-11-2020, 11:47 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't say we have to bail them out, but ignoring the economic impact would be really stupid.

60,000 Americans died of complications of the flu last year, and that's with a vaccine.  Where's the hysteria?

Well they are getting "Bailed out" and that is all Trump is focusing on.  

In frank political terms all he has is the continued growth of the economy. He sees any sustained downturn as a person affront to his reelection chances. And he may be right.

[Vas Deferens]

(03-11-2020, 11:47 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't say we have to bail them out, but ignoring the economic impact would be really stupid.

60,000 Americans died of complications of the flu last year, and that's with a vaccine.  Where's the hysteria?

The continued push for Medicare for All / Single Payer Healthcare.

[Goalpost]

So plenty of colleges have cancelled classes, instead going to an on-line curriculum. Also sporting events are being affected...as the Ivy league cancelled their basketball tournament. I know Miami of Ohio nearby here has gone the route of cancelling classes, but what's odd is that some things are still running. For instance the student cafeterias are still open. Sounds like a business response to me...they don't want to issue refunds if they did.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-11-2020, 12:27 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: The continued push for Medicare for All / Single Payer Healthcare.

Probably would not do much for flu deaths. Most of those people have Medicare

[*michaelsean*]

(03-11-2020, 12:39 PM)Goalpost Wrote: So plenty of colleges have cancelled classes, instead going to an on-line curriculum.  Also sporting events are being affected...as the Ivy league cancelled their basketball tournament.  I know Miami of Ohio nearby here has gone the route of cancelling classes, but what's odd is that some things are still running.  For instance the student cafeterias are still open.  Sounds like a business response to me...they don't want to issue refunds if they did.

Harvard is kicking everyone off campus.  Wonder if they will dip into that $40 billion endowment to pay them back for housing and meal plans.

[*Synric*]

New York Governor issued a 2 week Quarantine for New Rochelle.

https://www.jurist.org/news/2020/03/new-york-governor-announces-covid-19-quarantine-north-of-new-york-city/

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-11-2020, 11:47 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't say we have to bail them out, but ignoring the economic impact would be really stupid.

60,000 Americans died of complications of the flu last year, and that's with a vaccine. Where's the hysteria?

Because most people are familiar with the flu and what to expect. This coronavirus is a new strain and we are stilling learning how bad it can get.

If we had a flu strain circulating with a mortality rate similar to that of the Spanish flu of 1918 there would be panic.

There is a certain amount of fear or panic when people have a MRSA infection. It’s staph, but a certain strain of staph which can cause infections with increased morbidity or mortality and is resistant to antibiotics which would work against normal staph. And even among MRSA infections there is the community acquired type which approximately 80% can be treated effectively with antibiotics on an outpatient basis. Then there is the hospital acquired type of MRSA that is very aggressive and resistant to all but the strongest IV antibiotics we have available and frequently causes extended hospitalizations, severe complications like necrotizing fasciitis or sepsis which can lead to amputations or even death. But, that’s the one people hear about on the news which is why they have so much anxiety when the hear MRSA or believe they may have a staph infection.

They have enough info to make them fearful, but not enough information to assuage their fear. A big part of my job involves patient education to help them understand when the do or don’t need to worry. That can be difficult. Sometimes impossible.

[Belsnickel]

(03-11-2020, 12:53 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Harvard is kicking everyone off campus.  Wonder if they will dip into that $40 billion endowment to pay them back for housing and meal plans.

They won't, but that's not saying they won't necessarily refund money. That just isn't how endowments work.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-11-2020, 02:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They won't, but that's not saying they won't necessarily refund money. That just isn't how endowments work.

No I know they wouldn't actually dip into it, they would just refund the money.  But it doesn't sound as good.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-11-2020, 01:44 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Because most people are familiar with the flu and what to expect. This coronavirus is a new strain and we are stilling learning how bad it can get.

If we had a flu strain circulating with a mortality rate similar to that of the Spanish flu of 1918 there would be panic.

There is a certain amount of fear or panic when people have a MRSA infection. It’s staph, but a certain strain of staph which can cause infections with increased morbidity or mortality and is resistant to antibiotics which would work against normal staph. And even among MRSA infections there is the community acquired type which approximately 80% can be treated effectively with antibiotics on an outpatient basis. Then there is the hospital acquired type of MRSA that is very aggressive and resistant to all but the strongest IV antibiotics we have available and frequently causes extended hospitalizations, severe complications like necrotizing fasciitis or sepsis which can lead to amputations or even death. But, that’s the one people hear about on the news which is why they have so much anxiety when the hear MRSA or believe they may have a staph infection.

They have enough info to make them fearful, but not enough information to assuage their fear. A big part of my job involves patient education to help them understand when the do or don’t need to worry. That can be difficult. Sometimes impossible.

My neighbor is forty years old and morbidly obese.  600+.  He has cellulitis, and over the last few years he's had to go to the hospital every few months (he's learned to recognize the symptoms) when the symptoms kicked up.  A couple days ago he scheduled to be picked up today to be taken, but was seriously considering not going because of coronavirus.  Now I understand he runs a greater risk than most of us, but he currently HAS a serious life-threatening condition.

[*michaelsean*]

And don't get me started on the stores being bought out of all the anti-bacterial products. Just use the regular soap.

[GMDino]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive-idUSKBN20Y2LM

Exclusive: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations - sources

Quote:WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House has ordered federal health officials to treat top-level coronavirus meetings as classified, an unusual step that has restricted information and hampered the U.S. government’s response to the contagion, according to four Trump administration officials.

The officials said that dozens of classified discussions about such topics as the scope of infections, quarantines and travel restrictions have been held since mid-January in a high-security meeting room at the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), a key player in the fight against the coronavirus.

Staffers without security clearances, including government experts, were excluded from the interagency meetings, which included video conference calls, the sources said.

“We had some very critical people who did not have security clearances who could not go,” one official said. “These should not be classified meetings. It was unnecessary.”

The sources said the National Security Council (NSC), which advises the president on security issues, ordered the classification.”This came directly from the White House,” one official said.

The White House insistence on secrecy at the nation’s premier public health organization, which has not been previously disclosed, has put a lid on certain information - and potentially delayed the response to the crisis. COVID19, the disease caused by the virus, has killed about 30 people in the United States and infected more than 1,000 people.

HHS oversees a broad range of health agencies, including the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which among other things is responsible for tracking cases and providing guidance nationally on the outbreaks.

The administration officials, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity, said they could not describe the interactions in the meeting room because they were classified.

An NSC spokesman did not respond to questions about the meetings at HHS. But he defended the administration’s transparency across federal agencies and noted that meetings of the administration’s task force on the coronavirus all are unclassified. It was not immediately clear which meetings he was referring to.


“From day one of the response to the coronavirus, NSC has insisted on the principle of radical transparency,” said the spokesman, John Ullyot. He added that the administration “has cut red tape and set the global standard in protecting the American people under President Trump’s leadership.”

A spokeswoman for the HHS, Katherine McKeogh, issued a statement that did not address questions about classified meetings. Using language that echoed the NSC’s, the department said it that it agreed task-force meetings should be unclassified.


Critics have hammered the Trump administration for what they see as a delayed response to coronavirus outbreaks and a lack of transparency, including sidelining experts and providing misleading or incomplete information to the public. State and local officials also have complained of being kept in the dark about essential federal response information.


U.S. Vice-President Mike Pence, the administration’s point person on coronavirus, vowed on March 3 to offer “real-time information in a steady pace and be fully transparent.” The vice president, appointed by President Donald Trump in late February, is holding regular news briefings and also has pledged to rely on expert guidance.


The meetings at HHS were held in a secure area called a “Sensitive Compartmentalized Information Facility,” or SCIF, according to the administration officials.


SCIFs are usually reserved for intelligence and military operations. Ordinary cell phones and computers can’t be brought into the chambers. HHS has SCIFs because theoretically it would play a major role in biowarfare or chemical attacks.


A high-level former official who helped address public health outbreaks in the George W. Bush administration said “it’s not normal to classify discussions about a response to a public health crisis.”


Attendees at the meetings included HHS Secretary Alex Azar and his chief of staff Brian Harrison, the officials said. Azar and Harrison resisted the classification of the meetings, the sources said.


HHS did not make Azar or Harrison available for comment.


One of the administration officials told Reuters that when complex issues about a quarantine came up, a high-ranking HHS lawyer with expertise on the issue was not admitted because he did not have the proper security clearance. His input was delayed and offered at an unclassified meeting, the official said.


A fifth source familiar with the meetings said HHS staffers often weren’t informed about coronavirus developments because they didn’t have adequate clearance. He said he was told that the matters were classified “because it had to do with China.”

The coronavirus epidemic originated in China and the administration’s main focus to prevent spread early on was to restrict travel by non-U.S. citizens coming from China and to authorize the quarantine of people entering the United States who may have been exposed to the virus.


One of the administration officials suggested the security clearances for meetings at HHS were imposed not to protect national security but to keep the information within a tight circle, to prevent leaks.


“It seemed to be a tool for the White House - for the NSC - to keep participation in these meetings low,” the official said.

[GMDino]

Leadership?

So at the same time Dr. Fauci was warning Congress that Coronavirus will get worse, our ******* President was hate-tweeting at Vanity Fair.

— Adam Parkhomenko (@AdamParkhomenko) March 11, 2020

 

[Belsnickel]

(03-11-2020, 02:34 PM)michaelsean Wrote: No I know they wouldn't actually dip into it, they would just refund the money.  But it doesn't sound as good.

I just got an alert that University of Virginia will be holding their classes online for the foreseeable future. This shit is getting crazy.

(03-11-2020, 02:54 PM)michaelsean Wrote: And don't get me started on the stores being bought out of all the anti-bacterial products. Just use the regular soap.

So, I'm the Assistant District Commissioner for Scouting here, and the District Commissioner is an OB/GYN. Last evening we had a meeting and were chatting about all this and he talked about how people have been buying up this stuff so much that his supplier has told him he won't be able to get new gloves. He did mission work for the LDS in a third-world country when he was younger and he was saying he will have to resort to the methods they used there of cleaning their gloves for reuse.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-11-2020, 03:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I just got an alert that University of Virginia will be holding their classes online for the foreseeable future. This shit is getting crazy.


So, I'm the Assistant District Commissioner for Scouting here, and the District Commissioner is an OB/GYN. Last evening we had a meeting and were chatting about all this and he talked about how people have been buying up this stuff so much that his supplier has told him he won't be able to get new gloves. He did mission work for the LDS in a third-world country when he was younger and he was saying he will have to resort to the methods they used there of cleaning their gloves for reuse.

Damn.  Unintended consequences that really can cause problems.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-11-2020, 02:38 PM)michaelsean Wrote: My neighbor is forty years old and morbidly obese.  600+.  He has cellulitis, and over the last few years he's had to go to the hospital every few months (he's learned to recognize the symptoms) when the symptoms kicked up.  A couple days ago he scheduled to be picked up today to be taken, but was seriously considering not going because of coronavirus.  Now I understand he runs a greater risk than most of us, but he currently HAS a serious life-threatening condition.

This comes back to patient education and giving them the information they need to manage their concerns. Cellulitis is usually caused by staph or strep. It’s usually the type of staph infection I referred to above which can be treated with oral antibiotics on an outpatient basis. It’s usually not life threatening, but it can be. In your neighbor’s case, I’m 99.9% sure he probably has type 2 diabetes and it is probably not well controlled due to the degree of obesity and he may even require insulin all of which makes treating cellulitis more difficult and increases the risk for life threatening complications. You’re right the infection he has is a greater risk to his health than a potential exposure to coronavirus at the hospital. Plus he is more likely to be exposed to the flu than the coronavirus and the obesity alone is an independent risk factor that places him in a high risk group for flu complications like pneumonia. So exposure to coronavirus should be way down the list of his medical concerns. But, they need to be given that information and they need to understand it. Unfortunately, studies indicate patients correctly remember only about 35% of the information they’re given.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-11-2020, 04:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: This comes back to patient education and giving them the information they need to manage their concerns. Cellulitis is usually caused by staph or strep. It’s usually the type of staph infection I referred to above which can be treated with oral antibiotics on an outpatient basis. It’s usually not life threatening, but it can be. In your neighbor’s case, I’m 99.9% sure he probably has type 2 diabetes and it is probably not well controlled due to the degree of obesity and he may even require insulin all of which makes treating cellulitis more difficult and increases the risk for life threatening complications. You’re right the infection he has is a greater risk to his health than a potential exposure to coronavirus at the hospital. Plus he is more likely to be exposed to the flu than the coronavirus and the obesity alone is an independent risk factor that places him in a high risk group for flu complications like pneumonia. So exposure to coronavirus should be way down the list of his medical concerns. But, they need to be given that information and they need to understand it. Unfortunately, studies indicate patients correctly remember only about 35% of the information they’re given.

He certainly has type two diabetes.  His hospital stays are usually a week to ten days.  He's gone to intensive care twice when he didn't recognize the signs that it was getting bad.  I guess at some point it can get into your blood or lymphatic system?   

A medical emergency where minutes count, and he's a dead man.  They call 911 and the local paramedics come, and then they have to call in and get an ambulance from another county that can carry him.  I pick up his prescriptions, and it's four or five every week. I don't know.  It's just sad.

35% would be high for my dad.  He usually remembers one random sentence that by itself indicates he's just fine.