Dealing with people who don't like facts

[GMDino]

As we get closer and closer to the election I'm seeing a ever enlarging group of people who choose to follow what they "know" versus what is true.

I had an exchange of the last two days with a friend on Facebook that summed it up for me.

[BmorePat87]

People are dumb, and you can't take facebook too seriously

[hollodero]

Opinion first, facts later. First people know what they believe. Facts then are ignored, doubted or forged in. That's sadly not news.

People who base their opinion on facts become a minority in democracies. It's the most dangerous thing.

[Au165]

Don't talk to people you know about politics or religion, they both tend to make normally rational people quite irrational.

[GMDino]

(10-27-2016, 09:17 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: People are dumb, and you can't take facebook too seriously

(10-27-2016, 09:27 AM)hollodero Wrote: Opinion first, facts later. First people know what they believe. Facts then are ignored, doubted or forged in. That's sadly not news.

People who base their opinion on facts become a minority in democracies. It's the most dangerous thing.

(10-27-2016, 09:27 AM)Au165 Wrote: Don't talk to people you know about politics or religion, they both tend to make normally rational people quite irrational.

98% of the time I let things go.

This exchange happened because of something else that was posted that was so wrong it made my head hurt.

After awhile it just becomes watching them twist in the wind to try and support a position with no basis in reality. 

[xxlt]

Love the Rachel Maddow line, "You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts." That pretty much sums up how I feel. But, our education system is so poor that many children and adults are unable to differentiate a fact and an opinion. It doesn't help that news has been subsumed in the entertainment division of most major media outlets. Should she get a boob job, does that dress look better on her or her, is he cheating, do you agree with him, and has he had plastic surgery are all more important than questions about whether a politician lies and the answers to all the questions are equally (ir)relevant in our culture.

[Benton]

(10-27-2016, 10:15 AM)xxlt Wrote:   But, our education system is so poor that many children and adults are unable to differentiate a fact and an opinion.

I wouldn't blame that on the education system. Stupid people get laid, too. Teaching their offspring how to read and write is the basics; teaching them reason and bigger concepts may be beyond hope.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Agreed, and it's a problem both sides indulge in with equal relish. I was having a discussion with a friend who is very pro gun control. They pointed out that Trump was lying when he said crime was a serious problem because , they correctly pointed out, the crime rate has been dropping for the past twenty plus years . I then stated that this was true and is directly counter to their argument for gun control, that we have a gun violence "epidemic". Additionally, gun ownership has risen during that period. The logic pretzel that followed was both enjoyable and painful to behold.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-27-2016, 11:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Agreed, and it's a problem both sides indulge in with equal relish. 

Yep. And, I might add, I think it sums up American politics quite effectively.

[xxlt]

(10-27-2016, 10:56 AM)Benton Wrote: I wouldn't blame that on the education system. Stupid people get laid, too. Teaching their offspring how to read and write is the basics; teaching them reason and bigger concepts may be beyond hope.

Fair point, but I am not talking about people with full scale IQs below 70. I am talking about people who are of average or slightly above or below average, some of whom have completed college, who can't tell a fact from an opinion. It is frightening.

[BmorePat87]

(10-27-2016, 10:15 AM)xxlt Wrote: But, our education system is so poor that many children and adults are unable to differentiate a fact and an opinion. 

It's not the schools. Schools teach this. 

I posted a thread about this a week or so ago. It's not that they can't differentiate between the two, it's just that they are so sure they are correct that they do not realize they are wrong. People have the tendency to find sources to collaborate their "facts" and to not believe those who state otherwise. 

[Rotobeast]

(10-27-2016, 09:02 AM)GMDino Wrote: As we get closer and closer to the election I'm seeing a ever enlarging group of people who choose to follow what they "know" versus what is true.

I had an exchange of the last two days with a friend on Facebook that summed it up for me.

We're he to state that Hillary also lies (and I hate the "so and so is worse" arguments), coupled with a link providing examples, would that have changed the dynamic of the exchange ?

(Random Google link, for hypothesized situation)

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[GMDino]

(10-27-2016, 12:59 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: We're he to state that Hillary also lies (and I hate the "so and so is worse" arguments), coupled with a link providing examples, would that have changed the dynamic of the exchange ?

(Random Google link, for hypothesized situation)

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

She.

And if the question is "Do people lie?" then I would never say someone never lies.

This has continued beyond what I shared as she said the article I posted said "unethical behavior".  And yes those words were used...but in this sentence:

Quote:" Rumors have long persisted about her role in the Watergate investigation in the 1970s, and whether she was fired for unethical activities. We found those rumors to be a combination of truth and fiction — her former boss described her actions as “unethical” decades later, but she wasn’t terminated over them. "

That was followed by asking what *I* thought happened so I explained and provided another link referring to the books and quotes in question and how they don't appear in the first two books but in a third written by someone else.

She refused to accept my source as she didn't "trust" it.

So I posted five more.

I'll let you know if anything is reliable enough to change what she "knows".  

[Au165]

(10-27-2016, 12:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It's not the schools. Schools teach this. 

I posted a thread about this a week or so ago. It's not that they can't differentiate between the two, it's just that they are so sure they are correct that they do not realize they are wrong. People have the tendency to find sources to collaborate their "facts" and to not believe those who state otherwise. 

Studies have shown the more you disprove someone's strongly held belief they will reject it further in the face of facts stating otherwise. Take the guy from hard knocks this last season, William Hayes. He does not believe Dinosaurs are real, but he does believe mermaids are real. He was taken to a museum where they had actual skeletons and he actually asked the question "if we never saw them how do we know how to put them back together?". At the end of his tour the lady asked if he believed they were real now, he replied no he actually believes now more so they weren't real.

Basically people form opinions on things and don't change their minds.

[Rotobeast]

(10-27-2016, 01:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: She.

And if the question is "Do people lie?" then I would never say someone never lies.

This has continued beyond what I shared as she said the article I posted said "unethical behavior".  And yes those words were used...but in this sentence:



That was followed by asking what *I* thought happened so I explained and provided another link referring to the books and quotes in question and how they don't appear in the first two books but in a third written by someone else.

She refused to accept my source as she didn't "trust" it.

So I posted five more.

I'll let you know if anything is reliable enough to change what she "knows".  

Whoops....sorry for the assumption.

So, you've resorted to picking on girls, now ?


Just playing.....


Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-27-2016, 10:56 AM)Benton Wrote: I wouldn't blame that on the education system. Stupid people get laid, too. Teaching their offspring how to read and write is the basics; teaching them reason and bigger concepts may be beyond hope.

[*Nately120*]

Any time someone acts that stupid I just pause and remember that I'm not required to argue and/or enlighten people. That makes me happy.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(10-27-2016, 02:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: Studies have shown the more you disprove someone's strongly held belief they will reject it further in the face of facts stating otherwise. Take the guy from hard knocks this last season, William Hayes. He does not believe Dinosaurs are real, but he does believe mermaids are real. He was taken to a museum where they had actual skeletons and he actually asked the question "if we never saw them how do we know how to put them back together?". At the end of his tour the lady asked if he believed they were real now, he replied no he actually believes now more so they weren't real.

Basically people form opinions on things and don't change their minds.

Got a problem with Mermaids?? Why you, you serenephobe!

[THE Bigzoman]

People have biases, yes.

This is especially true with politics.

You have a family and are older than me? Is this something you're JUST NOW learning?

[JustWinBaby]

Ummmm...like, Obamakare facts?