Defund the police

[*bfine32*]

(11-13-2020, 12:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Now words matter again and not actions?

You guys are very confusing!

Any thoughts on the subject?

[BmorePat87]

(11-13-2020, 12:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's also, unfortunately, accurate.  Look at the slashed police budgets in Seattle and Los Angeles.  Look at Measure J, which just passed in LA County.

https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/kcrw-features/measure-j

Kind of my point, "defund" doesn't mean "slash". It means to remove the funding. Defund Planned Parenthood was a move to stop federal funding from going to Planned Parenthood. 

Now we're using it to describe any reduction of funding. It's no wonder why conservatives and moderates are confused as to what it means (that and the mixed messaging).

[GMDino]

(11-13-2020, 12:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Any thoughts on the subject?

Absolutely.

Defund the police is a poor choice of words that do not reflect the actual actions that have taken place or that have been called for but continues to be used by people who think if that can convince people that words mean more than actions in this case (but not the ones they want to defend) it will stir up trouble rather than dealing with the reason "defund the police" became a thing in the first place.

[hollodero]

(11-13-2020, 02:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: Absolutely.

Defund the police is a poor choice of words that do not reflect the actual actions that have taken place or that have been called for but continues to be used by people who think if that can convince people that words mean more than actions in this case (but not the ones they want to defend) it will stir up trouble rather than dealing with the reason "defund the police" became a thing in the first place.

I don't know if that is 100% accurate. First, even I came across quite a lot of people on the so-called left that took the defunding part just as right wing commentators allege, they want to take money away from police as retribution for bad police deeds and that's that. Of course the academic explanation of what it means differs, and sure many who use the term know that. But it's still an awfully chosen term, almost comically awful, and a republican strategist couldn't have wished for a poorer choice of slogan. For of course every Tuckeresque figure will jump on it to paint liberals as crazy people that want to kneecap all police forces. At this point, this isn't so much on Tucker as on the people who wonder why a tiger would chase antelopes. It's the nature of the discourse and the state of things and knowing that and still rolling with this slogan is severe political malpractice.

[GMDino]

(11-13-2020, 02:52 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't know if that is 100% accurate. First, even I came across quite a lot of people on the so-called left that took the defunding part just as right wing commentators allege, they want to take money away from police as retribution for bad police deeds and that's that. Of course the academic explanation of what it means differs, and sure many who use the term know that. But it's still an awfully chosen term, almost comically awful, and a republican strategist couldn't have wished for a poorer choice of slogan. For of course every Tuckeresque figure will jump on it to paint liberals as crazy people that want to kneecap all police forces. At this point, this isn't so much on Tucker as on the people who wonder why a tiger would chase antelopes. It's the nature of the discourse and the state of things and knowing that and still rolling with this slogan is severe political malpractice.

The term is bad for describing what is proposed.  Claiming that "words matter" is equally bad coming from people who say actions matter more when it comes to their defense of something.  That is what I am saying.  

[hollodero]

(11-13-2020, 02:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: The term is bad for describing what is proposed.  Claiming that "words matter" is equally bad coming from people who say actions matter more when it comes to their defense of something.  That is what I am saying.  

Well, I don't know about that. I agree that words matter, whether the people you refer to are hypocritical about that imho is not all that important. They are right in that instance, it does matter. And it seems a tad hypocritical to switch that around just because other people also do.

I severely doubt that every person who is happily rolling with the defund the police slogan really understands it the way it's allegedly supposed to be understood. It can so easily be used in a divisive manner, in anger and as an expression that cops should perish financially as retribution for bad policing.

[GMDino]

(11-13-2020, 03:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, I don't know about that. I agree that words matter, whether the people you refer to are hypocritical about that imho is not all that important. They are right in that instance, it does matter. And it seems a tad hypocritical to switch that around just because other people also do.

I severely doubt that every person who is happily rolling with the defund the police slogan really understands it the way it's allegedly supposed to be understood. It can so easily be used in a divisive manner, in anger and as an expression that cops should perish financially as retribution for bad policing.

I agree that words matter.  Which is why I can say and agree the phrase is bad.  Which is why I can say I say words matter all the time.  Which is why I speak to the hypocrisy of those who do not when it suits their needs.

My problem is not with "words matter" but those who wish to use that phrase only when they know the action behind the words is not as nefarious as they would make it out to be so they can condemn it.