Defund the police

[GMDino]

(07-23-2020, 11:35 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I put a lot of time and effort into my statistical calculations thank you very much.

I was referring to my own post there.  

[fredtoast]

(07-23-2020, 08:42 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I've trained numerous officers in my time as a supervisor.  I'll tell you the same thing I tell them.  I don't want to give you the correct answer.  I want you to know why the correct answer is correct.  That way I'm not answering a single question for you, I'm giving you the knowledge to answer any question related to that topic.  

No offense, but i spent a couple of hours looking for proof that shots were fired from  different vehicle other than the Jeep in the CHOP zone.  I am not falling for that again.

You have to have some level of credibility before you can play the "I am a teacher" game.  When a student proves a teacher wrong then the teacher has to provide something to back up his position other than just "I say so".

This is not anything personal about your character.  I am not calling you a liar.  I am just saying that given the number of false claims you have made recently (eyewitness testimony is not evidence,  Proud Boys only fight in self defense, etc)  I don't think it is out of line to ask you to give some proof to back up your claims. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-24-2020, 11:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No offense, but i spent a couple of hours looking for proof that shots were fired from  different vehicle other than the Jeep in the CHOP zone.  I am not falling for that again.

You have to have some level of credibility before you can play the "I am a teacher" game.  When a student proves a teacher wrong then the teacher has to provide something to back up his position other than just "I say so".

This is not anything personal about your character.  I am not calling you a liar.  I am just saying that given the number of false claims you have made recently (eyewitness testimony is not evidence,  Proud Boys only fight in self defense, etc)  I don't think it is out of line to ask you to give some proof to back up your claims. 

It's very simple Fred, just reread what you've already read about the arrests and tell me what they were charged with and why that makes the two situation different.  It won't even take five minutes.  

Also, I would ask that you cease repeating blatant falsehoods about statements I have made, the underlined especially.  If you persist in repeating such falsehoods I will report them.  Thank you.  

[*Nately120*]

I just saw a Trump attack on the defund the police ad and it's pretty similar to the ads he ran 4 years ago. White woman who notices a masked intruder is screwed because the Democrat candidate took her gun/police.  It's a clumsy statement and easy to sensationalize, but let's not act the right hasn't pushed this same narrative since JFK was running.

Same old mantra....if you let democrats get elected or we let Italians/Irish/Hispanics/blacks/Muslims come here white women will be in danger.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-24-2020, 12:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I just saw a Trump attack on the defund the police ad and it's pretty similar to the ads he ran 4 years ago. White woman who notices a masked intruder is screwed because the Democrat candidate took her gun/police.  It's a clumsy statement and easy to sensationalize, but let's not act the right hasn't pushed this same narrative since JFK was running.

Same old mantra....if you let democrats get elected or we let Italians/Irish/Hispanics/blacks/Muslims come here white women will be in danger.

Yes, not an effective manner in which to portray the extreme danger that left leaning politicians will be putting people in by jumping on board the defund the police bandwagon.  One of my officers and I like to have in depth discussions on these types of issues.  As she is a black woman and I am a white man we both find the different perspectives on events interesting and enlightening.  On this subject we are both in lock step, the communities who will pay the steepest price for this ill conceived notion are the very communities that the "movement" states they are trying to protect.  Crime won't increase in Garcetti's gated community, it sure as hell will at Imperial Courts or Jordan Downs.

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2020, 12:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Also, I would ask that you cease repeating blatant falsehoods about statements I have made, the underlined especially.  If you persist in repeating such falsehoods I will report them.  Thank you.  

I am not claiming that you lied about the Proud Boys.  I am just pointing out that you were ignorant of the truth.  That has nothing to do with your character.  Just your level of knowledge.

You are not denying that you claimed you did not know of a single case where the Proud Boys attacked someone that was not in self defense, are you?  How about "Eye witness testimony is not evidence"?  Or "shots were fired from a different vehicle, not the jeep"?

Nothing personal about it.  Just discussing the validity of claims you have made.

And I would not even have to bring them up if you would just answer a simple question instead of claiming you have the credibility to claim you are a teacher and we are your pupils.  As I have already said, this is the most bizarre debate I have ever had on a message board.  I have never encountered anyone who claims he is  correct and then demand that I find the evidence to support his position.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-24-2020, 02:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not claiming that you lied about the Proud Boys.  I am just pointing out that you were ignorant of the truth.  That has nothing to do with your character.  Just your level of knowledge.

As an attorney you are aware of the need to state things specifically.  The way you stated this implied that I had lied about this subject.  I did not and I pointed that out.

Quote:You are not denying that you claimed you did not know of a single case where the Proud Boys attacked someone that was not in self defense, are you?  How about "Eye witness testimony is not evidence"?  Or "shots were fired from a different vehicle, not the jeep"?

I didn't say eye witness testimony was not evidence, I simply didn't see your post on that.  The original claim was that shots were fired from a silver SUV, Bel mentioned this as well, so I was not incorrect about that

Quote:Nothing personal about it.  Just discussing the validity of claims you have made.

And I would not even have to bring them up if you would just answer a simple question instead of claiming you have the credibility to claim you are a teacher and we are your pupils.

I didn't say that, again you're being deliberately deceptive.

Quote:  As I have already said, this is the most bizarre debate I have ever had on a message board.  I have never encountered anyone who claims he is  correct and then demand that I find the evidence to support his position.

It is bizarre that you can't go read the charge the protesters were arrested for and then state what it was.  On this we agree.

As for this silly back and forth, it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.  Consequently I will not be participating in this particular discussion any further.  If you wish to return to the thread topic I'd be happy to continue.  I'm sure this is very boring for anyone else reading it.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(07-24-2020, 12:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I just saw a Trump attack on the defund the police ad and it's pretty similar to the ads he ran 4 years ago. White woman who notices a masked intruder is screwed because the Democrat candidate took her gun/police.  It's a clumsy statement and easy to sensationalize, but let's not act the right hasn't pushed this same narrative since JFK was running.

Same old mantra....if you let democrats get elected or we let Italians/Irish/Hispanics/blacks/Muslims come here white women will be in danger.

[fredtoast]

(07-24-2020, 03:11 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It is bizarre that you can't go read the charge the protesters were arrested for and then state what it was. 

The fact that you can't either is even MORE bizarre since you claim it supports YOUR position.

this is like the Twilight Zone of message board debates.

[*bfine32*]

(07-22-2020, 08:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Praying for peace in Louisville this weekend. Because the cops are going to have their hands tied:

https://wfpl.org/opposing-militia-groups-plan-demonstrations-in-louisville-saturday/


Brandenburg, KY is a tiny town outside of Louisville and this was the scene about one month ago when there were reports folks were coming for a statue:
Although nothing happened on that occasion I do know it got very heated on Social Media

NFAC leader says he expects about 5,000 coming from his organization.

Luckily it appears that all these idiots did was shoot themselves

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gunshots-fired-rival-militias-face-173049099.html

Quote:Shots rang out in Louisville, Kentucky on Saturday as hundreds of members of heavily armed militia groups converged on the city for a protest against police brutality.


Louisville police confirmed three people were injured when a gun discharged as members of the “Not ***** Around Coalition,” an all-Black militia, gathered in Baxter Park shortly before 1 p.m.

A spokesperson for the police department described the shooting to The Daily Beast as “negligent” and said there were “no charges at this time” and no outstanding suspects.

The victims, all of whom were members of the NFAC, were transferred to the University of Louisville Hospital with non-life-threatening injuries, police said.

[Dill]

(07-24-2020, 02:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not claiming that you lied about the Proud Boys.  I am just pointing out that you were ignorant of the truth.  That has nothing to do with your character.  Just your level of knowledge.

You are not denying that you claimed you did not know of a single case where the Proud Boys attacked someone that was not in self defense, are you?  How about "Eye witness testimony is not evidence"?  Or "shots were fired from a different vehicle, not the jeep"?

Nothing personal about it.  Just discussing the validity of claims you have made.

And I would not even have to bring them up if you would just answer a simple question instead of claiming you have the credibility to claim you are a teacher and we are your pupils.  As I have already said, this is the most bizarre debate I have ever had on a message board.  I have never encountered anyone who claims he is  correct and then demand that I find the evidence to support his position.

Odd indeed.

Happened on the "LE Leaks" thread too. Deflects direct questions, accuses others of deliberate deception, and demands that others provide evidence for his claims if they question them. Never seen that before

A pattern. Perhaps even a method.

[*bfine32*]

DEFUND THE POLICE!!!! unless my Lyft driver obeys Covid guidlines:

https://www.westernjournal.com/politician-voted-defund-police-wrongly-called-911-driver/

Quote:Months after she proposed defunding the police, Portland, Oregon, City Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty called the police on a Lyft driver who canceled her ride....

The ride was canceled after Hardesty got upset that the driver had trouble finding her pickup location and refused to roll up the windows that were open for ventilation....The windows in the front of the car were cracked as a safeguard against the coronavirus, a practice that is part of Lyft’s recommendations for drivers during the pandemic.

The Nov. 1 incident ended with dueling 911 calls after the city commissioner refused to get out of the car when the driver tried to drop her off at a gas station so she could order another ride.'''
The dispatcher explained that Hardesty was the only one who can order another ride. Hardesty still refused to move and asked the police to respond.

[BigPapaKain]

(11-12-2020, 11:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: DEFUND THE POLICE!!!! unless my Lyft driver obeys Covid guidlines:

https://www.westernjournal.com/politician-voted-defund-police-wrongly-called-911-driver/

This just in - politicians are hypocrites. More at 11.

[fredtoast]

(11-12-2020, 11:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: DEFUND THE POLICE!!!! unless my Lyft driver obeys Covid guidlines:

https://www.westernjournal.com/politician-voted-defund-police-wrongly-called-911-driver/

Can't believe how many people still believe that defunding the police means there will be no police to enforce laws.

That is what happens when the only source of information is right-wing rhetoric.

[BmorePat87]

(11-13-2020, 11:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't believe how many people still believe that defunding the police means there will be no police to enforce laws.

That is what happens when the only source of information is right-wing rhetoric.

"Defund" is also a terrible choice considering that it usually means to stop all funding. "Reform the police" is better. 

[hollodero]

(11-13-2020, 11:54 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: "Defund" is also a terrible choice considering that it usually means to stop all funding. "Reform the police" is better. 

"Defund the police" has to be amongst the most astonishingly badly chosen slogans ever.

[BmorePat87]

(11-13-2020, 12:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: "Defund the police" has to be amongst the most astonishingly badly chosen slogans ever.

this was my take back in June. I still think it's dead on:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bad-Boys-II?pid=875980#pid875980

Quote:I see a lot of people mentioning defund the police. I think it's a terrible phrase for a few reasons.


1. "Defund" traditionally means to remove all funding. I understand that colloquially or informally it can be used to describe any reduction in funding, but given the absolute meaning it usually holds, you're going to confuse people.

2. There's multiple meanings of "defund the police". The most popular one seems to be a fundamental reform where various community based services replace traditional tasks of the police. But others use it to describe an abolition of the police. The mixed messaging hurts the sell.

3. The insistence of activist for using this term over "reform" comes at the cost of winning over public and political support. I get that systemic racism continues to exist because complacent white people are afraid of challenging the existing social structures that are quite comfortable, but you still need public support. Politicians aren't going to risk votes.

4. A week ago this wasn't on anyone's radar, so outrage over politicians not immediately endorsing it is silly.


Fundamental reforms are necessary, and there's a number of things in the "defund the police" agenda that would be beneficial, but they really need a new phrase.

[*bfine32*]

(11-13-2020, 11:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't believe how many people still believe that defunding the police means there will be no police to enforce laws.

That is what happens when the only source of information is right-wing rhetoric.

....or when people know words matter

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-13-2020, 11:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't believe how many people still believe that defunding the police means there will be no police to enforce laws.

That is what happens when the only source of information is right-wing rhetoric.

Or when you listen to the actual people saying the words.

(11-13-2020, 11:54 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: "Defund" is also a terrible choice considering that it usually means to stop all funding. "Reform the police" is better. 

It's also, unfortunately, accurate.  Look at the slashed police budgets in Seattle and Los Angeles.  Look at Measure J, which just passed in LA County.

https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/kcrw-features/measure-j

So glad I moved out of Los Angeles, the whole city is going to shit.

(11-13-2020, 12:02 PM)hollodero Wrote: "Defund the police" has to be amongst the most astonishingly badly chosen slogans ever.

It was chosen because those uttering it actually mean it.  It was only once it was clear how much normal people loathe the idea, and would cost those promoting it votes, that it was shelved.  The slogan that is, the goal and effort remains the same.

[GMDino]

(11-13-2020, 12:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ....or when people know words matter

Now words matter again and not actions?

You guys are very confusing!