Does God exist?

[Bengalzona]

(07-27-2022, 07:00 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: its not enough to just say you believe. faith alone wont get you to Heaven. we all already know god exist. you have to repent of your sins and ask forgivness in Jesus name. no one comes to the father except through the Son. faith is the thing you need until your eyes are opened to the truth thats already been written on your heart. faith is the trust that what god and Jesus are telling you is true, before youve realized the truth. once you see the truth, the faith turns into absolute knowing. if you only have faith you should start opening your mind to all the proof God has give to you everywhere. 

Belief in Jesus means recognizing His divinity. And recognizing His divinity is synonymous with recognizing His sacrifice and its purpose. And if a person has a personal relationship with Jesus, which can only be established through the Holy Ghost, they don't really need a "how to" manual on requirements to get to Heaven. They have a personal guide.

[Bengalzona]

(07-27-2022, 06:31 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: You'd be hard pressed to find an Atheist who disagrees that Jesus had some good points. 

Sadly his message is lost in modern Christianity because everyone has to use his name to push their shitty agenda. It's ironic since most folks who do that are usually pushing the opposite of what he tried to teach. They'd hate Jesus if he existed today.

Yeah. And it isn't just modern Christians. It goes back almost to the start of the religion. Any religion. As soon as they go to organize, there is someone with the thought, "Hmmm. How can I profit from this?"

(07-27-2022, 06:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, I feel like religion started off as a discipline and people just figured "Hey, instead of using this as a means to restrain and better myself why don't I use it as a way to restrict others and consider myself superior to others?"

People ruin stuff, it's what they do. 


I think it's like the difference between learning a martial art so you can hone your mind and body and follow a disciplined path versus learning a martial art so you can bully people...oh man...it's Karate Kid stuff.

Yeah. When you read the Bible with the idea of it being rules of one's individual personal conduct, you begin to see the great lengths folks have gone to through the ages to shoe horn it into being a method of trying to control others.

[Leon]

(07-27-2022, 07:34 PM)GMDino Wrote: So when the child prays to God to not be raped God must allow the rape because of free will?

Why pray?  Why ask your God for anything...even forgiveness...when He does not care what happens to the weakest and the smallest in your version of free will?

That is not my God.  

so God should give people free will and then take it away? or should God make everyone robots who just get programed? we are in this position cause we chose right out of the gate to use free will to disobey and spit in the eye of God. in his mercy even though we didnt deserve it, he still gave us all a way out of our own wickedness through Jesus. 

[BigPapaKain]

(07-27-2022, 06:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think all the gods are real and as soon as you die one of the ones you see will be one you very much do NOT believe in and then once you like, piss your ethereal pants with fear they're like, we're all cool and we are just messing with you.  Come on in!

Kind of like Faerûn rules; except the gods are all petty and like pranking mortals, like Greek rules.

I can dig it.

[BigPapaKain]

(07-27-2022, 07:12 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: without an objective true standard you cant really say what is real or aint real. in a God world there is an absolute foundation for knowlege. in a no God world, there ain't no absolute standard and everything is just subjective. if you believe there is absolute facts, then you believe in a God cause they don't exist in a no God world.

Imagine actually believing any of that. 

Facts and fairy tails are - by their very natures - polar opposites.

[Leon]

(07-27-2022, 07:41 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Belief in Jesus means recognizing His divinity. And recognizing His divinity is synonymous with recognizing His sacrifice and its purpose. And if a person has a personal relationship with Jesus, which can only be established through the Holy Ghost, they don't really need a "how to" manual on requirements to get to Heaven. They have a personal guide.

where does God, Jesus or Paul say that "recognizing" is the way? it seems like your making the Word fit you instead of the other way? Jesus for sure gave you a clear "how to" to salvation. you can't just do away with what he said and decide your way is right. well you can do that, but it aint following the actual teachings about the way to Heaven. 

[BigPapaKain]

(07-27-2022, 07:48 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Yeah. And it isn't just modern Christians. It goes back almost to the start of the religion. Any religion. As soon as they go to organize, there is someone with the thought, "Hmmm. How can I profit from this?"

That's the shittiest part about it. Had religion not been used to oppress or turn a profit and stuck to uniting people, you wouldn't have so many folks bucking it. Hell, as many people have said - Christianity is currently the most popular religion. Imagine the good that the Church could do if they actually practiced what Jesus taught. World hunger would be a thing of the past. People wouldn't be terrified to be true to themselves.

Sadly, that'll never happen. Helping folks ain't as profitable as terrorizing and oppressing them.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

There are no gods, and I’m very confident in saying this. I obviously have no proof of the lack of any gods, but the burden of proof does not lie with the nonbeliever, it lies with those making incredible paranormal claims.

If there were a god, it’s not omnipotent and omnipresent like western religions claim him to be. It would be a terribly evil being to let the world exist as it does now.

[Leon]

(07-27-2022, 08:08 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: There are no gods, and I’m very confident in saying this. I obviously have no proof of the lack of any gods, but the burden of proof does not lie with the nonbeliever, it lies with those making incredible paranormal claims.

If there were a god, it’s not omnipotent and omnipresent like western religions claim him to be. It would be a terribly evil being to let the world exist as it does now.

when you say "there are no gods" you just made a claim. 

and God isn't evil, his creation is. big difference.

[*Nately120*]

(07-27-2022, 07:49 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: so God should give people free will and then take it away? or should God make everyone robots who just get programed? we are in this position cause we chose right out of the gate to use free will to disobey and spit in the eye of God. in his mercy even though we didnt deserve it, he still gave us all a way out of our own wickedness through Jesus. 

Yeah that may be true.  I have trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of heaven where Gandhi didn't make the cut but Jesus-accepters who killed or raped people do.  Alas, it's not for my mortal mind to perceive. 

Side note, how about all the GOP conservatives having to share heaven with all the caravan Mexican criminals and rapists and drug lords who are Christian?  Man, I should get in on this just to see how that all plays out.

[Bengalzona]

(07-27-2022, 08:00 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: where does God, Jesus or Paul say that "recognizing" is the way? it seems like your making the Word fit you instead of the other way? Jesus for sure gave you a clear "how to" to salvation. you can't just do away with what he said and decide your way is right. well you can do that, but it aint following the actual teachings about the way to Heaven. 

Your limited definition of the word "recognition" is causing close-mindedness:

Quote:rec·og·ni·tion/ˌrekəɡˈniSH(ə)n/ Learn to pronounce  noun: recognition; plural noun: recognitions

1. identification of someone or something or person from previous encounters or knowledge.
   "she saw him pass by without a sign of recognition"                                           
2. acknowledgment of something's existence, validity, or legality.
   

And the Word does fit everyone, if they choose to accept. That is the beauty of its perfection.

If you re-read my response, you will see that relationship with Jesus and Holy Spirit are intricate to what I discuss. It is third parties interpreting for them that I have absolutely no use for. And neither do they, come to think of it.

[*Nately120*]

(07-27-2022, 07:57 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Kind of like Faerûn rules; except the gods are all petty and like pranking mortals, like Greek rules.

I can dig it.

Is this a 2nd edition DnD reference?  Are we talking Baldur's Gate II?

[Leon]

(07-27-2022, 08:22 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Your limited definition of the word "recognition" is causing close-mindedness:



And the Word does fit everyone, if they choose to accept. That is the beauty of its perfection.

If you re-read my response, you will see that relationship with Jesus and Holy Spirit are intricate to what I discuss. It is third parties interpreting for them that I have absolutely no use for. And neither do they, come to think of it.

so do you agree that you MUST believe, confess your sins, ask to be forgiven in the name of Jesus to recieve salvation and get into Heaven? because those are the things Jesus and Paul actually said. 

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(07-27-2022, 08:12 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: when you say "there are no gods" you just made a claim. 

Thanks, I guess.

Quote:and God isn't evil, his creation is. big difference.

But your god supposedly has the power to stop it, and doesn’t. That indifference itself is evil. If I’m walking down the street and see a rape or a child murder in progress, I’m going to attempt to stop it. Even if I don’t have the power to change it, I’m gonna make an honest effort to do so. Your his either has the power to change this and does nothing, or he’s not as powerful as you profess.

[Leon]

(07-27-2022, 08:42 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Thanks, I guess.
But your god supposedly has the power to stop it, and doesn’t. That indifference itself is evil. If I’m walking down the street and see a rape or a child murder in progress, I’m going to attempt to stop it. Even if I don’t have the power to change it, I’m gonna make an honest effort to do so. Your his either has the power to change this and does nothing, or he’s not as powerful as you profess.

but You didn't give humans free will. God did. you would be using your free will that God GAVE you to stop the the other person using the free will God GAVE them. so you want God to take away just one of your free wills? if he did that, then free will is no meaning at all. 

he has the power to stop it, but it would mean taking away free will. if he takes away free will, were just mindless puppets. there would not be any bad stuff but also no freedom.

[Bengalzona]

(07-27-2022, 08:35 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: so do you agree that you MUST believe, confess your sins, ask to be forgiven in the name of Jesus to recieve salvation and get into Heaven? because those are the things Jesus and Paul actually said. 

I do. John 14:6

[Leon]

(07-27-2022, 09:04 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I do. John 14:6

then i guess we agree on the most important part. be blessed sir.

[*Nately120*]

This is where the modern GOP lose me where Christianity is the measuring stick of all that is good and right and moral, yet it is also imperative that we build a wall and severely limit immigration from a country that is over 90% Christian.

[Leon]

(07-27-2022, 09:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is where the modern GOP lose me where Christianity is the measuring stick of all that is good and right and moral, yet it is also imperative that we build a wall and severely limit immigration from a country that is over 90% Christian.

laws and rules and and restrictions are needed on earth because men are imperfect and do bad things. the right understands that. im not sure why you are confused. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-27-2022, 09:16 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: laws and rules and and restrictions are needed on earth because men are imperfect and do bad things. the right understands that. im not sure why you are confused. 

So being Christian doesn't make you more moral than someone who isn't?