Don’t Confuse “Cincinnati Good” with “NFL Good.”

[Fan_in_Kettering]

We love our Bengals but sometimes this means using TOUGH love.

It’s time for some tough love, just in time for the last game of the season, and no one wants the Bengals to wreck the Ravens more than I.

Sometimes familiarity becomes TOO familiar if you know what I mean. While the Bengals will win four or five games this year we need to think seriously about how to get to the playoffs consistently again. I’ve mentioned this before but “Cincinnati good” and “NFL good” are often mutually exclusive. If you watch other games not involving the Bengals you’ll see exactly what I mean. We love our particular players and we get emotionally involved in their success but we need to get real.

VERY real!

How many players on the Bengals’ roster could honestly make the roster of a Super Bowl team? Jessie Bates? Gio Bernard? Sam Hubbard? Tee Higgins? Maybe Joe Burrow?

I don’t use PFF grades but right now there is a dearth of championship caliber players on the current Bengals’ roster. Let’s start making some smart personnel decisions and look to the near future. There is deadwood which needs to be cut, players whose potential turned out to be less than anticipated, and those who would make for a good trade bait.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 02:32 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: How many players on the Bengals’ roster could honestly make the roster of a Super Bowl team? Jessie Bates? Gio Bernard? Sam Hubbard? Tee Higgins? Maybe Joe Burrow?

Burrow - give him that Eagles team Nick Foles had he could win
Hopkins - the Chiefs center graded out right around where Trey did last season
Tee
Boyd
Mixon
Gio (if we’re going by just making the roster but not starting)
Reader
Bates
Bell
Lawson
Hubbard (*see Gio)

[PlayadLc]

My only focus this off-season would be the offensive line. If the Bengals get that unit to league average or better they make the playoffs next year. Barring they stay healthy.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2020, 02:50 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Burrow - give him that Eagles team Nick Foles had he could win
Hopkins - the Chiefs center graded out right around where Trey did last season
Tee
Boyd
Mixon
Gio (if we’re going by just making the roster but not starting)
Bates
Bell
Lawson
Hubbard (*see Gio)

I think that's about right myself.  Phillips is playing pretty good ball too.

[Benton]

That's been my issue the last couple years. And I think that's part of why we struggled getting good coordinators.

We can complain about coaches and the org all day, but no coach is winning it all with this roster. We've just had a few bad drafts and our better players are aging out.

To me, get a great gm. Get better players. Then if the coaching stinks, you at least have a roster to attract someone.

I see it all the time in college and high school. Coaches see what's coming and jump ship. Then in a few years when things improve, the "bad" coach gets sacrificed and they being in a new guy who looks like he worked a miracle.

We need at least 4-5 position upgrades. Get those and we're a whole different team.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-28-2020, 03:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: I think that's about right myself.  Phillips is playing pretty good ball too.

Beat me to it....And that gives him a list of 11 players:  6 on offense, and 5 on defense.  People will kill me for doing this, but I think WIlson and Pratt belong just outside this list.  When the front four was remotely healthy, the LB play looked much better.  

On offense, Jonah would be the #1 ranked OT in this year's rookie class of first round OTs.  Yes, he was drafted last year, but never even got to practice before the injury.  He came out with a revolving door of turds at LG next to him and has been rated really solid this year.  His injuries are concerning, but rookie tackles almost always struggle.  He really hasn't, and I think he will be better each year. 

No NFL team has no weak spots.  Some are just better at disguising it.  The Chiefs are loaded, no doubt, but teams are starting to figure out not to fall for the window dressing with all the misdirections and they are holding them down a bit better than in the past.  I think Buffalo is one team to watch in the playoffs.  They are playing tough as hell and can put up 30 points on anyone.  Love how they built that team.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 04:10 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: On offense, Jonah would be the #1 ranked OT in this year's rookie class of first round OTs.  Yes, he was drafted last year, but never even got to practice before the injury.  He came out with a revolving door of turds at LG next to him and has been rated really solid this year.  His injuries are concerning, but rookie tackles almost always struggle.  He really hasn't, and I think he will be better each year. 

Tristan Wirfs

Mekhi Becton

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-28-2020, 04:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tristan Wirfs

Mekhi Becton

Bechton and Wirfs have both climbed and are now rated higher than Williams.  I will attribute some of that to injury and some to the talent around them, but those two have been ascending.  It is really too bad that Williams is injured now, because I think with XSF next to him, and Spain manning the RG spot, they have been a pretty solid unit.

[Murdock2420]

(12-28-2020, 02:50 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Burrow - give him that Eagles team Nick Foles had he could win
Hopkins - the Chiefs center graded out right around where Trey did last season
Tee
Boyd
Mixon
Gio (if we’re going by just making the roster but not starting)
Bates
Bell
Lawson
Hubbard (*see Gio)

No Alexander?

Also, Reader if not on IR should be included in all lists.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 04:39 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: No Alexander?

Also, Reader if not on IR should be included in all lists.

Reader for sure. Completely forgot about the big fella.

[Au165]

"Make the roster" is a pretty ignorant statement as I'd say somewhere around 40 or so could make the roster on a SB team. Looking beyond the obvious stars for instance, Green Bays' linebackers aren't good so could Pratt and Wilson be fringe starters or backups on their roster? Of course. The corners for the Bucs aren't very good so I'd guess WJ3 and Phillips could make their roster easily and Alexander may be the last guy in. Almost all of our O line could make Seattle's roster because Cedric Ogbuehi has started 3 games for them this year.

As bad as it is to take a homer approach to the roster, doing the opposite and making outlandish statements is just as bad. The weird idea that the back end of NFL rosters are better than actual starting lineups is insane.

[*bfine32*]

(12-28-2020, 04:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tristan Wirfs

Mekhi Becton

Wirfs gets the benefit of not playing LT.

I think Becton is the only OT drafted in the last 3 years, playing LT, with a rating higher than Williams.

Williams' durability does concern me though 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2020, 04:40 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Reader for sure. Completely forgot about the big fella.

Easily done, as he played what, 3 or 4 games? I wasn't considering him either. 

[masterpanthera_t]

(12-28-2020, 04:47 PM)Au165 Wrote: "Make the roster" is a pretty ignorant statement as I'd say somewhere around 40 or so could make the roster on a SB team. Looking beyond the obvious stars for instance, Green Bays' linebackers aren't good so could Pratt and Wilson be fringe starters or backups on their roster? Of course. The corners for the Bucs aren't very good so I'd guess WJ3 and Phillips could make their roster easily and Alexander may be the last guy in. Almost all of our O line could make Seattle's roster because Cedric Ogbuehi has started 3 games for them this year.

As bad as it is to take a homer approach to the roster, doing the opposite and making outlandish statements is just as bad. The weird idea that the back end of NFL rosters are better than actual starting lineups is insane.

 
Yup. This was my view as well. I would say even guys like Brandon Wilson,  would maintain their spots on a playoff team. I could see Daniels playing major minutes in a rotation for a good team. A guy like WJ, while not an All Pro, can be a very good second corner or a decent first corner on good to great teams. Lawson can be a great third down player on a team like the Packers.

The Bengals' lack of talent is really glaring in the OL imo, and if that can be fixed,  they are a playoff contender. Perhaps if they can get a second great tackle on the DL, who provides a decent rush to complement a healthy Reader's run stopping,  their defense can be strong enough to win in the playoffs. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2020, 05:42 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote:  
Yup. This was my view as well. I would say even guys like Brandon Wilson,  would maintain their spots on a playoff team. I could see Daniels playing major minutes in a rotation for a good team. A guy like WJ, while not an All Pro, can be a very good second corner or a decent first corner on good to great teams. Lawson can be a great third down player on a team like the Packers.

The Bengals' lack of talent is really glaring in the OL imo, and if that can be fixed,  they are a playoff contender. Perhaps if they can get a second great tackle on the DL, who provides a decent rush to complement a healthy Reader's run stopping,  their defense can be strong enough to win in the playoffs. 

Yes, I believe the talent deficiency is on both lines. Their poor play has caused a lot of problems for the skill positions and game planning. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

The OP probably should have asked how many of our players could start on a Super Bowl team.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(12-28-2020, 02:32 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: We love our Bengals but sometimes this means using TOUGH love.

It’s time for some tough love, just in time for the last game of the season, and no one wants the Bengals to wreck the Ravens more than I.

Sometimes familiarity becomes TOO familiar if you know what I mean.  While the Bengals will win four or five games this year we need to think seriously about how to get to the playoffs consistently again.  I’ve mentioned this before but “Cincinnati good” and “NFL good” are often mutually exclusive.  If you watch other games not involving the Bengals you’ll see exactly what I mean.  We love our particular players and we get emotionally involved in their success but we need to get real.

VERY real!

How many players on the Bengals’ roster could honestly make the roster of a Super Bowl team?  Jessie Bates?  Gio Bernard? Sam Hubbard?  Tee Higgins?  Maybe Joe Burrow?  

I don’t use PFF grades but right now there is a dearth of championship caliber players on the current Bengals’ roster.   Let’s start making some smart personnel decisions and look to the near future.   There is deadwood which needs to be cut, players whose potential turned out to be less than anticipated, and those who would make for a good trade bait.

I watch a lot of NFL football and I have to disagree.

There is a slim margin between less than average teams to average teams to Super Bowl teams.

I think the Bengals are not as far away as people think. They have a lot of talent that has not played this year.
The Offensive line just needs to find the right rotation and then play together long enough to understand everyones responsibilities.

I think we need to bring in a few more key FA's and have another solid draft  and we will see what happens next couple of years.

[BengalChris]

I get what you are saying about the players, but let's face it, this coaching staff is going no where near an NFL Championship. Not now, not ever! But they are good enough for Mike Brown and family.

[CanadianBengal]

(12-28-2020, 02:32 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: We love our Bengals but sometimes this means using TOUGH love.

It’s time for some tough love, just in time for the last game of the season, and no one wants the Bengals to wreck the Ravens more than I.

Sometimes familiarity becomes TOO familiar if you know what I mean.  While the Bengals will win four or five games this year we need to think seriously about how to get to the playoffs consistently again.  I’ve mentioned this before but “Cincinnati good” and “NFL good” are often mutually exclusive.  If you watch other games not involving the Bengals you’ll see exactly what I mean.  We love our particular players and we get emotionally involved in their success but we need to get real.

VERY real!

How many players on the Bengals’ roster could honestly make the roster of a Super Bowl team?  Jessie Bates?  Gio Bernard? Sam Hubbard?  Tee Higgins?  Maybe Joe Burrow?  

I don’t use PFF grades but right now there is a dearth of championship caliber players on the current Bengals’ roster.   Let’s start making some smart personnel decisions and look to the near future.   There is deadwood which needs to be cut, players whose potential turned out to be less than anticipated, and those who would make for a good trade bait.

I think lots of responses questioned about which Bengals would make a championship roster. I think the real issue is how few Bengals are elite level players. The type of players that elevate others around them, beat their man consistently one on one, require double teaming and gameplanning or just plain old make things happen. 

Bates is the only player on this roster that deserved discussion about being an All-Pro. Burrows may get their one day. Many of the Bengals current players would be better if the guy beside them was better. Lawson and Hubbard would benefit from an interior pass rush or dominant blitzing linebacker. Burrowns and Mixon would excel if they had time or holes. There are a few weak spots for sure --but I think the biggest problem is the lack of dominant players. How many players on GB, Seattle and KC are elite? How many Bengals are?

When this team went to the playoffs it had more players who were near the top for their positions and forced teams to account for them every play.

[Au165]

(12-29-2020, 02:51 AM)CanadianBengal Wrote: I think lots of responses questioned about which Bengals would make a championship roster. I think the real issue is how few Bengals are elite level players. The type of players that elevate others around them, beat their man consistently one on one, require double teaming and gameplanning or just plain old make things happen. 

Bates is the only player on this roster that deserved discussion about being an All-Pro. Burrows may get their one day. Many of the Bengals current players would be better if the guy beside them was better. Lawson and Hubbard would benefit from an interior pass rush or dominant blitzing linebacker. Burrowns and Mixon would excel if they had time or holes. There are a few weak spots for sure --but I think the biggest problem is the lack of dominant players. How many players on GB, Seattle and KC are elite? How many Bengals are?

When this team went to the playoffs it had more players who were near the top for their positions and forced teams to account for them every play.

To answer your question

KC- Mahomes/Hill/Kelce/Jones
SEA - Metcalf/Wilson/Wagner/Adams
GB- Rodgers/Adams/Jones/Alexander

The running trend here is you need at least 4 elite guys to be a serious threat to win a SB with another group of 4 or 5 good players to go with them. The Bengals have Bates in the elite tier, and Reader could be one of those guys when he is healthy. You are then looking to Burrow and maybe a guy like Higgins or Mixon taking the next step. After that filling in with guys like a Lawson/Hubbard/Wilson/Boyd/ WJ3 could give you a group in the following tier. If you look at those teams they all have a QB and an elite weapon, that is what this team will need I think to make the jump and we have the potential for those on the roster. 

I think the emergence of Higgins has been undersold a bit here, even though it is mentioned around here occasionally. If it weren't for Justin Jefferson having an insane year I think people would be talking nationally about how great a pick Higgins really was. He has outperformed Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs/Reagor/Ayiuk up to this point and he has a shot this week to surpass 1k yards as a rookie. Had he been with a healthy Burrow all year there is no doubt he would have surpassed 1k yards on the year as he has really started showing some really good body control and tracking ability down the field lately.