Drug running tunnels

[SunsetBengal]

The one described in this article is said to run 32 feet below the surface. What if the US dug a 100' deep crevice between the two countries. Think that might slow them down a bit??

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/drug-tunnels-along-the-us-mexico-border-high-costs-high-rewards/ar-BBmqgrX

Quote:More than 80 tunnels have been discovered between Mexico and the United States since 2006, most recently this past Thursday after a six-month investigation by the U.S. government resulted in a large smuggling tunnel being uncovered, as well as 22 arrests and the recovery of 12 tons of marijuana.

The tunnel, about 32 feet underground, runs about 2,880 feet, between the Otay Center Warehouse in San Diego and another warehouse in Tijuana. In a statement, Assistant U.S. Attorney David Finn said the tunnel is believed to have a railroad system, lighting and electricity throughout.

The investigation that led to this bust included agents from Homeland Security Investigations, the Drug Enforcement Administration and Border Patrol. An undercover agent allegedly offered to transport drugs for Isais Enriquez-Acosta, 53, one of the men arrested as a result of the investigation. Enriquez-Acosta and the agent met at a San Diego restaurant on Wednesday evening to discuss moving the drugs through the tunnel, authorities said. This meeting was the catalyst for moving forward with the bust.

Tunnels like the one allegedly used by Enriquez-Acosta most commonly connect California or Arizona with Mexico. There is a concentration of such tunnels in the San Diego area, with 10 having been found there in the last nine years. This area has become particularly popular for tunneling because of the soil, according to the San Diego Union-Tribune. The clay soil is more stable than the sandy soil in surrounding areas, and therefore the tunnels are less likely to cave in.

The industrial complex where the latest tunnel was uncovered has become especially popular with smugglers, with two others being found in April of last year, and it's not just because of the sturdy soil. The industrial complex is particularly noisey, the New Yorker found, and that draws away attention from what is going on below. With highways, shopping centers and dozens of warehouses in the area, attempts to find any single tunnel are far more difficult than in areas that are less busy. "All of this has created a candy store for smugglers," an unidentified United States agent told the New Yorkerin August. "This whole area belongs to them."

Tunnels of this kind are most commonly used by the Sinaloa Cartel that's run by El Chapo, a notorious drug kingpin who successfully escaped prison in a tunnel this year. El Chapo's first tunnel was built in 1989, Chron.com reported.

Building the tunnels is no easy feat, nor is recruiting workers to do so. The New Yorker investigation found over a dozen men were tricked into digging a tunnel in one instance, lured in with promises of other (legal) jobs. This crew was able to dig about 16 feet a day. For a tunnel of the length discovered this week, it would take roughly six months to complete, depending on the size of the crew at work and their experience in tunneling.

Speaking with Arizona's 12 News, DEA Phoenix Special Agent in Charge Doug Coleman compared the tunnel work to slave labor. "They're gonna grab these kids and are gonna hold them hostage until they finish the work," Coleman explained. "Sometimes [cartel leaders] pay them. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes when the job is over they will make them disappear."

Even with slave labor, tunnels of this kind can cost $1 million to $2 million to build. Marijuana estimated at $6 million in street value was waiting to be delived through the tunnel discovered Thursday. Law enforcement action was two-fold, with Mexican authorities at the Tijuana end of the tunnel and members of the San Diego County Sheriff's Office at the American end. Mexican officers arrested 16 people and seized 10 tons of marijuana. American authorities arrested six others and recovered almost two tons of marijuana. Had the marijuana transportation been successful, the smugglers would've covered their tunnel expenses instantly.

But this tunnel apparently never got to see its glory days. Authorities believe it was just preparing to open, and the night of the bust would have been the first time it was used for significant drug trafficking. "We see a super tunnel open for business once every year or so," U.S. Attorney Laura Duffy said in a statement. "Just when traffickers think they’re ready to move, we put them out of business. We continue to make good on our promise to relentlessly

[StLucieBengal]

Yet another reason why we shouldn't have given Mexico back half its country when we conquered them.

[JustWinBaby]

Surely at least one of the Repub candidates is dumb enough to counter Trump's wall by proposing a big ditch filled with crocodiles and bears.

[Rotobeast]

(10-25-2015, 06:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The one described in this article is said to run 32 feet below the surface.  What if the US dug a 100' deep crevice between the two countries.  Think that might slow them down a bit??

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/drug-tunnels-along-the-us-mexico-border-high-costs-high-rewards/ar-BBmqgrX

We build a MOAT !
The deepest most awesome moat that has ever existed !

[SunsetBengal]

So, all of you that are commenting in jest, must be completely comfortable with the Mexican's exploiting our people's drug problems and sending all of our money back to Mexico?

[BmorePat87]

(10-25-2015, 06:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The one described in this article is said to run 32 feet below the surface.  What if the US dug a 100' deep crevice between the two countries.  Think that might slow them down a bit??

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/drug-tunnels-along-the-us-mexico-border-high-costs-high-rewards/ar-BBmqgrX

So instead of a wall, we build a dry moat? Or do we still build the ramparts and bastions?

(10-25-2015, 06:29 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yet another reason why we shouldn't have given Mexico back half its country when we conquered them.

What are the other reasons? I am interested in reading your defense of American imperialism, especially considering your well known criticism of Teddy's imperialism. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-25-2015, 06:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, all of you that are commenting in jest, must be completely comfortable with the Mexican's exploiting our people's drug problems and sending all of our money back to Mexico?

Hyperboles in response to jest isn't going to stop the jest. 

[Rotobeast]

(10-25-2015, 06:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, all of you that are commenting in jest, must be completely comfortable with the Mexican's exploiting our people's drug problems and sending all of our money back to Mexico?

I'm actually serious.......really.
It would probably have to be dry like Pat suggested and used in conjunction with fencing.
Perhaps.... 12' chain link fence with razor wire, 50' dry moat, then steel wall.
The moat would stop cars coming to ram the fence.
I'm not sure it would really stop the tunnels, as they'd just go deeper.
But.... I really want a moat.

[StLucieBengal]

(10-25-2015, 07:09 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So instead of a wall, we build a dry moat? Or do we still build the ramparts and bastions?



What are the other reasons? I am interested in reading your defense of American imperialism, especially considering your well known criticism of Teddy's imperialism. 

I don't agree with giving up land once it's conquered. To the victor goes the spoils. The exact same reason I give when anyone brings up the Indians.

[Benton]

Couple things come to mind. If we dig a 100 foot deep trench, what's to stop the tunnelers from digging a 120 foot deep tunnel?

Or what's to stop them from putting a make shift bridge across the expanse?


I'll stick with the answer that if we stop allowing employers to hire illegals, the number of those illegally crossing the border will decline. And if we cease the ignorant "war on drugs" talking point from the 80s and actually address drug addiction and reform, then we won't have the demand there currently is for illegal drugs.

[GMDino]

(10-25-2015, 08:29 PM)Benton Wrote: Couple things come to mind. If we dig a 100 foot deep trench, what's to stop the tunnelers from digging a 120 foot deep tunnel?

Or what's to stop them from putting a make shift bridge across the expanse?


I'll stick with the answer that if we stop allowing employers to hire illegals, the number of those illegally crossing the border will decline. And if we cease the ignorant "war on drugs" talking point from the 80s and actually address drug addiction and reform, then we won't have the demand there currently is for illegal drugs.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

OK....let's stop making fun of the giant ditch suggestion that Sunset laid out. Let's see what it would take instead.

Needed information:
This ditch would be 100' deep according to the OP.
Since the width is not listed, we'll go with the width of a wide sidewalk....3'.
The U.S./Mexico border is 1989 miles long. There are 5280 feet in a mile, so this would be 10,501,920 feet long.
According to the RS Means guide for construction estimating, it costs $10.41 per linear foot to excavate 4 inches deep. Multiply this by 300 to get the 100 feet = $3123/ft.
10,501,920 x 3123 =

$32,797,496,160.00*

*soil disposal not included. costs include labor, material, and equipment rental**.
**Equipment is for digging 4". I imagine equipment rental for 100' may be a bit more.
***price includes excavation of soil only. Rivers, mountains, etc. will add additional cost.

Your tax dollars hard at work.

[BmorePat87]

(10-25-2015, 08:29 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I don't agree with giving up land once it's conquered.   To the victor goes the spoils.   The exact same reason I give when anyone brings up the Indians.

Wait, so you're cool with big imperialistic governments? 

[CKwi88]

(10-25-2015, 08:29 PM)Benton Wrote: Couple things come to mind. If we dig a 100 foot deep trench, what's to stop the tunnelers from digging a 120 foot deep tunnel?

Or what's to stop them from putting a make shift bridge across the expanse?


I'll stick with the answer that if we stop allowing employers to hire illegals, the number of those illegally crossing the border will decline. And if we cease the ignorant "war on drugs" talking point from the 80s and actually address drug addiction and reform, then we won't have the demand there currently is for illegal drugs.

GTFOH with rational thought. 

[Rotobeast]

(10-25-2015, 08:53 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: OK....let's stop making fun of the giant ditch suggestion that Sunset laid out.  Let's see what it would take instead.  

Needed information:
This ditch would be 100' deep according to the OP.  
Since the width is not listed, we'll go with the width of a wide sidewalk....3'.  
The U.S./Mexico border is 1989 miles long.  There are 5280 feet in a mile, so this would be 10,501,920 feet long.
According to the RS Means guide for construction estimating, it costs $10.41 per linear foot to excavate 4 inches deep.  Multiply this by 300 to get the 100 feet = $3123/ft.
10,501,920 x 3123 =

$32,797,496,160.00*

*soil disposal not included.  costs include labor, material, and equipment rental**.
**Equipment is for digging 4". I imagine equipment rental for 100' may be a bit more.
***price includes excavation of soil only. Rivers, mountains, etc. will add additional cost.

Your tax dollars hard at work.

Small nuclear weapons would do the job quicker/cheaper and add the benefit of a radioactive wasteland that should prove impassable !

[mallorian69]

(10-25-2015, 08:53 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: OK....let's stop making fun of the giant ditch suggestion that Sunset laid out.  Let's see what it would take instead.  

Needed information:
This ditch would be 100' deep according to the OP.  
Since the width is not listed, we'll go with the width of a wide sidewalk....3'.  
The U.S./Mexico border is 1989 miles long.  There are 5280 feet in a mile, so this would be 10,501,920 feet long.
According to the RS Means guide for construction estimating, it costs $10.41 per linear foot to excavate 4 inches deep.  Multiply this by 300 to get the 100 feet = $3123/ft.
10,501,920 x 3123 =

$32,797,496,160.00*

*soil disposal not included.  costs include labor, material, and equipment rental**.
**Equipment is for digging 4". I imagine equipment rental for 100' may be a bit more.
***price includes excavation of soil only. Rivers, mountains, etc. will add additional cost.

Your tax dollars hard at work.

Your estimate is for if a private firm were to do all of the work. There are ways to reduce the cost. The government already owns all of the equipment needed to dig the ditch so no equipment rental needed. Army combat engineers and navy seabees have experience digging ditches as part of defensive fortifications so they could be used to supply some of the man power further reducing costs. Prisoners could also be used for labor. 
Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could think of more if I actually cared to.

[Rotobeast]

(10-25-2015, 10:13 PM)mallorian69 Wrote: Your estimate is for if a private firm were to do all of the work. There are ways to reduce the cost. The government already owns all of the equipment needed to dig the ditch so no equipment rental needed. Army combat engineers and navy seabees have experience digging ditches as part of defensive fortifications so they could be used to supply some of the man power further reducing costs. Prisoners could also be used for labor. 
Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could think of more if I actually cared to.

Or we could offer citizenship to every Mexican that puts in a certain level of work into helping build said ditch.

[fredtoast]

(10-25-2015, 10:13 PM)mallorian69 Wrote: Your estimate is for if a private firm were to do all of the work. There are ways to reduce the cost. The government already owns all of the equipment needed to dig the ditch so no equipment rental needed. Army combat engineers and navy seabees have experience digging ditches as part of defensive fortifications so they could be used to supply some of the man power further reducing costs. Prisoners could also be used for labor. 
Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could think of more if I actually cared to.

The cost of a ditch that deep would be staggering.  The structure would require tons of re-enforcement and bracing every linear yard just to keep it from collapsing under the weight of the earth pushing in against it.

It could not be built by prisoners with picks and shovels.  It would require complex drilling and excavating equipment.

1500 miles would cost hundreds of billions of dollars.

And, it would absolutely fill with water.  So it would be a moat.

[*bfine32*]

It is kind of a double edged sword. If we make it harder for the drug traffickers to move back and forth between the countries; guess what they will do.

[*bfine32*]

(10-25-2015, 10:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And, it would absolutely fill with water.  So it would be a moat.

I take it you don't get down to that part of the country much.