EU army to be formed, in Show of Post Brexit unity

[Belsnickel]

(11-15-2017, 11:16 AM)Au165 Wrote: Am I the only one that thought this was a spoof account at first with the new avatar and all?

I'm in the holiday spirit.

[CKwi88]

(11-15-2017, 11:18 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm in the holiday spirit.

Dude.

Wait till after Thanksgiving.

[Belsnickel]

(11-15-2017, 11:19 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Dude.

Wait till after Thanksgiving.

Nope. Christmas all of November up through Epiphany. It's been that kind of year. Hell, maybe even beyond.

[Bengalzona]

(11-13-2017, 01:24 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah I can do that.


My comment: Good.

Yes. Good.

Exactly what Putin and conservatives want by insisting that the U.S. should withdraw from NATO and the U.N.

[GMDino]

(11-15-2017, 11:16 AM)Au165 Wrote: Am I the only one that thought this was a spoof account at first with the new avatar and all?

You just realized that?

There is no "Matt".  Never has been.  It's all be an elaborate ruse by the mods to have one account that posts actual information and facts brought to you by a policy wonk who loves digging into things versus spouting off opinion and hyperbole.

Everyone knows you'd never see that on a real political message board!

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-15-2017, 11:32 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Yes. Good.

Exactly what Putin and conservatives want by insisting that the U.S. should withdraw from NATO and the U.N.

Putin or Trump?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-15-2017, 11:06 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Seriously, could you get off of Lucie's nuts? I get it, I find a lot of things he post to be terrible as well, but most of what you post in this forum is just searching out for his posts and commenting on them, him, or bringing up old arguments. It's toxic to the environment in this subforum. I have no issues with commenting on him not understanding what is going on, as evidenced from my own posts in this thread, but it is rare that you engage in any conversation here other than that.

If this is a rules violation, let me know. Just felt like it needed to be said.

In the future I'll make a more conscientious effort to post false information in an effort to promote false discussions.

Transgenders: how mentally ill are they? Fruit Loops or Coocoo for CoaCoa Puffs?

Better?

Or would you like to stick to discussing the fictitious formation of a fictitious army under fictitious German control as if it's a real discussion. I couldn't even respond to this troll job if it wasn't created in the first place, so who created the toxic environment?

[Bengalzona]

(11-15-2017, 12:25 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Putin or Trump?

Same thing, right?

[Dill]

(11-13-2017, 01:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I usually ignore links Lucie posts, deciding instead to search for a source that is less editorialized than I assume has been provided. Interesting that this source lays some of the blame, for lack of a better word, as the feet of Trump.

That was my first assumption.

Wherever the US begins pulling back its military, or making noises that it will, other guarantors of security will emerge, not all of them  favorable to the US.

[Dill]

(11-13-2017, 04:07 PM)Benton Wrote: Well,  Russia is one of the world's largest militaries. It's currently close (don't know if I would fully agree with allied, but close) with China, which also has a very large military.

Which was OK for the last 40+ years because you had crazy America over there, thwarting the Russians and Communism. Want America's intervention, or just buttloads of American weaponry? Just mention "Russian involvement" and BAM, someone from the CIA will come to your country with an intel packet and cases of unmarked dollars to fund your guerrilla war.

And that worked.... until last year. Everybody waved at Russia and said "you aren't going to do anything, because the US has you locked down." Then Trump announced his plan to run for POTUS, the same Trump that spent years fellatiating Putin for his tough stances and man-sized hands. It didn't help when Trump went on TV and asked for Russia's help in the election... and somebody did what he asked for. There's also plenty of connections between Trump's people and Russia, like nesting dolls of corruption.

So, for the international community, you've got the one stop gap to keep Russia in check — the United States — with business ties and debt to one of Russia's biggest buddies (China) and the leader of that stop gap grabbing his ankles for the Russian bear. If Russia is going to make a play for anything, their time is now.

The EU forming a military force most likely would've happened anyway. Trump's inability to be diplomatic and his connections to Russia gave them any necessary leverage to go forward with less reservations.

I don't think that the EU would have formed an extra-NATO net for military coordination anytime soon. Trump has very likely hastened it.

But that said, your post is witty, insightful, and, I think, quite accurate.

And yes, according to Globalfirepower's military rankings, Russia is second after the USA.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

If it's budget keeps increasing at the present rate, it could reach a sixth of the US military budget in 10 years (If ours doesn't shrink). 

So far as I can tell, both they and China are far behind the US in ability to project force, having had so little recent practice.

[Dill]

(11-13-2017, 01:24 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Only those units working on the collaborative projects. The EU will not just have control over the entire military of the member states.

Still . . . GERMANS!   Think about it . . .

[hollodero]

(11-15-2017, 08:40 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't think that the EU would have formed an extra-NATO net for military coordination anytime soon. Trump has very likely hastened it.

Agreed with both of you. That being said, we should have made such efforts way sooner. In the 90's, we experienced years of war in Jugoslavia and an inability to act on it. We had UN troops being pointless as usual and the hope that Bill would do something when done doing women. Not too glorious.

And now we face an US who hands bills to Merkel and then wants to demand what we can and cannot do... like our moody hegemon over the ocean. But right, Trump has to finally show us clearly that we can't rely on that partnership any longer. Every other conclusion would be irresponsible.

[Dill]

(11-15-2017, 09:00 PM)hollodero Wrote: Agreed with both of you. That being said, we should have made such efforts way sooner. In the 90's, we experienced years of war in Jugoslavia and an inability to act on it. We had UN troops being pointless as usual and the hope that Bill would do something when done doing women. Not too glorious.

And now we face an US who hands bills to Merkel and then wants to demand what we can and cannot do... like our moody hegemon over the ocean. But right, Trump has to finally show us clearly that we can't rely on that partnership any longer. Every other conclusion would be irresponsible.

Same deal in Asia and the Middle East.

Australia is grappling with the difficult task of "standing by Trump" in the face of N Korea, while the Australian public hates the idea of war hinging on Trump's unstable judgment. The ANZUS partners, according to an NPR report tonight, want to distance themselves from the US for the next few years, but leave a space or opening for return of a dominant US role in the region post 2020.  

In the Middle East, Trump favorite Mohammed bin Salman, the young Saudi dictator, pledges to go "head on" with Iran, after having engineered the sanction job on another US ally, Qatar, and botched a war against the Yemeni Houthi.  What would you be thinking if you are Qatar right now? Or Bahrain, which has a US naval base? 

So the current world system is rearranging, or unraveling, apace.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-15-2017, 08:54 PM)Dill Wrote: Still . . . GERMANS!   Think about it . . .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/841539/EU-news-European-Union-fourth-reich-Germany-communism-Poland/amp

The Polish might know a thing or two about what happens when The Germans getting Too much control.

Quote:EU labelled 4th Reich by experts who blast communist super-state | World | News | Express.co.uk

PUBLISHED: 07:03, Wed, Aug 16, 2017
'European Union is just another name for 4th Reich!' Poles FURIOUS at German-led EU

European Union Fourth Reich discussionGETTY/TELEWIZJA REPUBLIKA

'European Union is just another name for 4th Reich' claimed an expert in Poland
THE ultimate goal of the European Union is to dissolve borders under a communist German super-state, a trio of Polish experts has claimed.

A panel of experts discussing the current political climate in Poland, told a political discussion show that instability in the nation was caused by the EU's goal to deprive Europe of its independence.

Krzysztof Karoń, Polish publicist, spoke on Telewizja Republika where he accused the European Union of writing its "communist agenda" into its own laws.

He said: "In March this year the European Commission signed its white paper, which was dubbed the Rome Declaration.

"The only binding manifesto of the EU became the communist manifesto from 1941.

Advertisement

"It is written in the programme that 'the first goal is to erase borders dividing Europe into sovereign states' and that 'every single undertaking must be verified under this first point'."

He underlined that in his view this is the root of all political problems sweeping through the continent.

His comments were mirrored by Stanisław Michalkiewicz, a lawyer and political commentator, who tore into the EU by accusing it of being a "Fourth Reich".

He said: "I think that we should be wary of the danger that we will fail to see the wood for the trees.

EU fourth reich panel discussionTELEWIZJA REPUBLIKA

The three panelists claimed that the EU was aiming to dissolve borders
Advertisement

TELEWIZJA REPUBLIKA

Mr Michalkiewicz claimed on TV that the EU is a German Fourth Reich
"There is a communist revolution which indeed is in full advance right now, and not just from March, but for a long time now.

"With the use of European institutions it heads towards the dissolution of countries and nations, but even when that happens, someone will have to steer the European Union.”

Mr Michalkiewicz went on to say that he believed, it is Germany's goal to take over leadership as the EU's "political director".

He blasted: "The European Union is simply just another name for a Fourth Reich."

"They could not write it down [in their constitution], but it contains a political programme to build a Fourth Reich.

"Right now we have a problem following President Trump's visit [to Poland], where he said he would support the Tri-Sea Project – Germany stated that he would undermine German hegemony and the Fourth Reich which they already heavily invested in."

Dr Rafał Brzeski, a special forces expert, also warned that this will all culminate in Europe becoming drafted into a "greater Eurasia".

He said: "This will either be a Europe of independent states or this will be - not a even Soviet Republic Union - but we will simply be transformed into a *****-Sovieticus or a *****-Europeisis.

TELEWIZJA REPUBLIKA

Another panelist claimed that the EU bloc will be absorbed into a 'greater Eurasia'
"We will be transformed without our individual identity, without our history, without our own nation, without our borders, without anything.

"We will be one of the atoms, one of the elements of a big European concept, which will be an entrance into Eurasia - from Vladivostok to Lisbon."

Express.co.uk approached the European Commission but an official spokesman said they were not willing to comment on the story.

[Dill]

(11-16-2017, 01:38 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/841539/EU-news-European-Union-fourth-reich-Germany-communism-Poland/amp

The Polish might know a thing or two about what happens when The Germans getting Too much control.  

Lucy! You and I are up a bit too late I think.

"This will either be a Europe of independent states or this will be - not a even Soviet Republic Union - but we will simply be transformed into a *****-Sovieticus or a *****-Europeisis."

Bet I could interest your Polish friends in some Biblical prophecy.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-16-2017, 03:03 AM)Dill Wrote: Lucy! You and I are up a bit too late I think.

"This will either be a Europe of independent states or this will be - not a even Soviet Republic Union - but we will simply be transformed into a *****-Sovieticus or a *****-Europeisis."

Bet I could interest your Polish friends in some Biblical prophecy.

It’s funny to see so many of you guys dismiss the Germans being a threat. They have been the biggest threat to Europe since 1900. They are the reason we had world wars. The Germans do what they do best..... try and seize power from those around them.

[GMDino]

(11-16-2017, 01:38 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/841539/EU-news-European-Union-fourth-reich-Germany-communism-Poland/amp

The Polish might know a thing or two about what happens when The Germans getting Too much control.  

Damn nazis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/13/this-weekends-march-in-poland-proves-the-far-right-isnt-going-away-without-a-fight

Too bad some people in the US still defend them. 

[Belsnickel]

(11-16-2017, 03:27 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: It’s funny to see so many of you guys dismiss the Germans being a threat. They have been the biggest threat to Europe since 1900. They are the reason we had world wars. The Germans do what they do best..... try and seize power from those around them.

They were the reason we had WWII, but not the reason for WWI. The background for that war is much more complicated than we tend to believe because our side won and we like black and white.

Aside from that, what you describe is what happens with every strong nation in the old world throughout history. Germany is no different than many others in that regard, of course in the modern era it's mostly just paranoia of it happening and not an understanding of reality. Besides, there are enough Nazis in Poland these days without Germany invading.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-16-2017, 10:04 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: They were the reason we had WWII, but not the reason for WWI. The background for that war is much more complicated than we tend to believe because our side won and we like black and white.

Aside from that, what you describe is what happens with every strong nation in the old world throughout history. Germany is no different than many others in that regard, of course in the modern era it's mostly just paranoia of it happening and not an understanding of reality. Besides, there are enough Nazis in Poland these days without Germany invading.

I you are making a joke at the end there, but it’s not like Germany who for all intents and purposes runs the EU, it’s not like they have the same history as a Poland or practically any other EU member. No one has tried to grab more power in Europe since 1900 than The Germans.

It’s certainly not about nazi’s. It’s about the German desire to dissolve borders within the EU and they pull the strings. If France and Macron wasn’t their pasties it would look more clear. Heck Macron ran to Merkel to practically bend the knee after his election.

The Polish have their ear to the ground plus they know what it’s like when Germany is surging to power. They have reason to be nervous.

[BmorePat87]

(11-16-2017, 10:04 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: They were the reason we had WWII, but not the reason for WWI. The background for that war is much more complicated than we tend to believe because our side won and we like black and white.

Aside from that, what you describe is what happens with every strong nation in the old world throughout history. Germany is no different than many others in that regard, of course in the modern era it's mostly just paranoia of it happening and not an understanding of reality. Besides, there are enough Nazis in Poland these days without Germany invading.

I respectfully disagree. While there are many factors that we list of the causes of the war, and we cannot blame decades of factors on Germany... ultimately they wanted the war and gave Austria support to declare war on Serbia, knowing full well that such a trivial thing would lead to war with Russia and France. 


That said, the suggestion that WWI and WWII means we should fear Germany and trust Russia as they engage in military action in sovereign states is ridiculous.