(06-09-2016, 11:23 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Good explination and it does make it much clearer; the only question I have remaining (and directed at you personally to answer); Who enforces the laws made by the EU? For instance we can call in Federal Troops if it ever got to that level.
There is a law enforcement agency for the EU called the European Police Office, or Europol for short. But, aside from that there is no executive agency to enforce laws relating to individuals. Defense is left up to the member states and so is law enforcement for the most part as Europol's role is mostly intelligence and coordination.
It's my understanding that EU laws are directed mostly at the way the member states operate and not regarding individual citizens. So the assumption would be that pressure from other member states against a member state that is not acting as they should would be the stick as far as the EU is concerned.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(06-09-2016, 04:43 PM)Griever Wrote: thats right up there with
"obama is gonna take our guns"
Then you should let the Germans know it's a joke because they are pushing for this... France and then Brits are the only ones keeping This from happening.
(06-09-2016, 04:52 PM)Griever Wrote: are we at all shocked that germany of all countries is in favor of a federalized (not sure if thats the correct word) army?
You should watch that Brexit video above. Look at the Germans role and how they got their money then saddled everyone else via the EU.
(06-09-2016, 09:37 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So it's loosely modeled on the U.S. as it would have been if the anti-federalists had won outright. Think of the E.U. itself as the federal government and the member states being like our states in this country. The intention is to allow each state their own sovereignty within their borders, but for things that impact multiple states or borders between them, etc., that is handled by the E.U.
The problem with the E.U. is the same one that we have here, the central government has been increasing its own power and several of its member states are not too happy about it. The irony is that, as was already pointed out, this was created to prevent a massive European conflict from erupting again but could very well lead to their own version of our Civil War.
The EU leaders are not elected and EU MEP can not put forth any legislation. All legislation is done behind closed doors by unelected people and presented in front of parliament.
I find it interesting that the German government is in favor of this sort of thing, because I don't think the people would be. The German people want their military to defend their country, nothing else. They aren't happy with the fact they sent German troops to the middle east. A part of me feels like this is the politicians in Germany trying to find a way to have Germany more involved in global conflicts without pissing off the populous quite as much.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(06-09-2016, 04:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I find it interesting that the German government is in favor of this sort of thing, because I don't think the people would be. The German people want their military to defend their country, nothing else. They aren't happy with the fact they sent German troops to the middle east. A part of me feels like this is the politicians in Germany trying to find a way to have Germany more involved in global conflicts without pissing off the populous quite as much.
If the EU is in control and not elected by anyone then they have no one to answer. An army led by someone not elected or accountable to the people is a dictator.
(06-09-2016, 04:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The EU leaders are not elected and EU MEP can not put forth any legislation. All legislation is done behind closed doors by unelected people and presented in front of parliament.
(06-09-2016, 05:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If the EU is in control and not elected by anyone then they have no one to answer. An army led by someone not elected or accountable to the people is a dictator.
Depends on what you term as the leaders. The European Council is elected, if the head of state for a member state is elected. The Council of the EU, essentially the Senate, is appointed by elected officials. The EUP is directly elected. The President of the Commission is elected through the EUP. All EU laws must be voted on and passed by the EUP.
Certainly not a perfect system I grant you, but not as unrepresentative of the people as you seem to think it is.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(06-09-2016, 05:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Depends on what you term as the leaders. The European Council is elected, if the head of state for a member state is elected. The Council of the EU, essentially the Senate, is appointed by elected officials. The EUP is directly elected. The President of the Commission is elected through the EUP. All EU laws must be voted on and passed by the EUP.
Certainly not a perfect system I grant you, but not as unrepresentative of the people as you seem to think it is.
When members of parliament can't put forth any legislation then it's not representive.
(06-09-2016, 10:42 AM)Benton Wrote: I don't get the contempt for America. I'm not aware that we ever did this. But some people are so terrified of [insert least favorite minority here] that they want to go to some kind of Cold War Russia system of control. That's got to be a horrible way to spend the day.
Why is it always a minority with you? Either you are legal or illegal. Either you did you inmigration the legitiment way and follower the rules.... Or .... You snuck in like a snake in the grass/thief in the night. And then tried to hide amoung us all.
![[Image: un_peacekeepers002_16x9.jpg]](http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/images/u/uk%20uo/un_peacekeepers002/un_peacekeepers002_16x9.jpg)
![[Image: bfine-guns2.png]](https://i.ibb.co/YBkDQJV/bfine-guns2.png)
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
