Elliot Page Question

[BFritz21]

Ellen Page has come out as a transgender man named Elliot.

So say he goes to a gym and goes into the women's locker room to change or use the shower or say she goes into the women's bathroom at a restaurant to pee, will he be arrested the same as a biological man would?

They're the same, right?

[BmorePat87]

Localities have different laws so it’s impossible to answer this rhetorical (assuming it was meant to be rhetorical disguised as hypothetical) question without a specific location.

[BFritz21]

(12-04-2020, 02:28 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Localities have different laws so it’s impossible to answer this rhetorical (assuming it was meant to be rhetorical disguised as hypothetical) question without a specific location.

Places have laws where men can go into women's bathrooms and locker rooms to watch them change and shower?

[Benton]

(12-04-2020, 03:04 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Places have laws where men can go into women's bathrooms and locker rooms to watch them change and shower?

No, but some places don't have laws against it.

I forget the state, but there is literally a place where it's against the law to carry ice cream in your pocket. Just because one city/state has a law/ordinance doesn't mean another does.

As pat said, it depends entirely on local law.

I was in st louis about a year ago. Stopped for a pit stop at a gas station. Did what I had to do and what appeared to be a young woman walked out of the stall. She gave me a smile and a wave I said hi. She left, I left. Nobody tased her on the way out. I don't know if it's illegal for a woman or a transgender female to use a men's room in st louis, but nobody that day cared.

[Goalpost]

I want to say Planet Fitness has relaxed rules with transgender. Seemed like they were in the news on it a few years back.

[*Nately120*]

(12-04-2020, 03:04 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Places have laws where men can go into women's bathrooms and locker rooms to watch them change and shower?

Boys will be boys.  Mellow out and watch Porky's.

[BmorePat87]

(12-04-2020, 03:04 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Places have laws where men can go into women's bathrooms and locker rooms to watch them change and shower?

Some places would require that Mr. Page use the women’s facilities. Some would require that he use the men’s. Some don’t have any laws surrounding trans folk.

[Belsnickel]

(12-04-2020, 10:44 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Some places would require that Mr. Page use the women’s facilities. Some would require that he use the men’s. Some don’t have any laws surrounding trans folk.

Indeed. Honestly, if we'd all recognize the superiority of sitting down to pee and just had stalls in all bathrooms (that actually afforded privacy like ones in much of Europe) none of this would matter.

Also, on the topic of bathroom idiocies, get a bidet. So much better than TP. I installed one because people were hoarding TP again, recently, and it's awesome. It'll wake you up in the morning, too.

[GMDino]

Are we gonna start worrying about what other people are doing in the bathroom again?

I just want to use the bathroom and get out without seeing anyone.  I don't care who or what they are.

[fredtoast]

If Elliot Page wants to shower with me there is no way in hell I call the cops.

[fredtoast]

(12-04-2020, 11:03 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Also, on the topic of bathroom idiocies, get a bidet. So much better than TP. I installed one because people were hoarding TP again, recently, and it's awesome. It'll wake you up in the morning, too.

I use my Waterpik.



Sometimes much longer than I really need to.

[Big Boss]

(12-04-2020, 01:58 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Ellen Page has come out as a transgender man named Elliot.

So say he goes to a gym and goes into the women's locker room to change or use the shower or say she goes into the women's bathroom at a restaurant to pee, will he be arrested the same as a biological man would?

They're the same, right?

If he identifies as a male, why wouldn't he be using men's rooms?

[CKwi88]

(12-04-2020, 12:48 PM)Big Boss Wrote: If he identifies as a male, why wouldn't he be using men's rooms?

If he's in a place that prohibits him from using the bathroom of the sex he identifies as I guess.

Either way, he's Canadian, not sure about his residence but Canadians are a little more enlightened on these matters I'd wager.

[fredtoast]

I am about as liberal as anyone here. And I have a transgender son. But even I realize there are some delicate issues that have to be addressed.

Using the bathroom should be no problem for anyone. No one watches anyone else use public bathrooms. But community showers can be an issue. Especially if there are children involved. Even I would have issues with an adult transgender female using a community shower with young girls present.

And another issue is transgender girls competing in girls sports. Not even hormones can reverse all of the benefits the transgender girls might have. It just is not fair.

I want to treat transgenders as equally as possible, but they have to understand that there are some lines that have to be drawn.

[BFritz21]

Can someone please explain to me why lines would need to be drawn when the entire argument from the left is that trans people really are the sex they identify as?

You can't have it both ways.

[*Nately120*]

(12-04-2020, 03:07 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Can someone please explain to me why lines would need to be drawn when the entire argument from the left is that trans people really are the sex they identify as?

You can't have it both ways.

I think the main argument is how many things should we make illegal because we can imagine that a small percentage of law-breakers will use the freedom for their own nefarious purposes?  At least that is how I see it.

[Belsnickel]

It really is tiring rehashing the same old arguments about this stuff and every single time the same people say the same thing as if they just ignored everything that was said before.

[CKwi88]

(12-04-2020, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am about as liberal as anyone here.  And I have a transgender son.  But even I realize there are some delicate issues that have to be addressed.

Using the bathroom should be no problem for anyone.  No one watches anyone else use public bathrooms.  But community showers can be an issue.  Especially if there are children involved.  Even I would have issues with an adult transgender female using a community shower with young girls present.

And another issue is transgender girls competing in girls sports.  Not even hormones can reverse all of the benefits the transgender girls might have. It just is not fair.

I want to treat transgenders as equally as possible, but they have to understand that there are some lines that have to be drawn.

I think that this, despite the usual mischaracterizations from the right, is the opinion of the overwhelming majority on this issue. And is simply resolved with the installation of a select amount of private stalls and showers.

I'm sure there would be a very vocal but still very much minority sect of the LGBT(insert the rest of the ever changing letters here) against it, but you can't please everyone.

[*Nately120*]

(12-04-2020, 05:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It really is tiring rehashing the same old arguments about this stuff and every single time the same people say the same thing as if they just ignored everything that was said before.

This is a very pre-Trump sort of thread. 

[Belsnickel]

(12-04-2020, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am about as liberal as anyone here. And I have a transgender son. But even I realize there are some delicate issues that have to be addressed.

Using the bathroom should be no problem for anyone. No one watches anyone else use public bathrooms. But community showers can be an issue. Especially if there are children involved. Even I would have issues with an adult transgender female using a community shower with young girls present.

And another issue is transgender girls competing in girls sports. Not even hormones can reverse all of the benefits the transgender girls might have. It just is not fair.

I want to treat transgenders as equally as possible, but they have to understand that there are some lines that have to be drawn.

I get your position, but the research done thus far doesn't support it when it comes to trans girls/women in sports: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/scientist-racing-discover-how-gender-transitions-alter-athletic-performance-including

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-016-0621-y?fbclid=IwAR0ZGGDsQIoLboWJfc8slvsxKwqVvYWyIHdtI-eHHfhryX9IoxepWshmu1Q

Obviously, this is something that needs more study and there are a ton of nuisance variables in the mix, as well. But it isn't as black-and-white as you make it seem.

You're also a far cry from being as liberal as anyone here, but that's a different conversation.