Firefighters disciplined for Merry Christmas billboard

[Vlad]

 
Lancaster Oh. fire fighters disciplined for doing something nice.

However well-meaning the sign was, its "Merry Christmas" greeting violated the separation of church and state provision in the U.S. Constitution, city officials said. Governments may not show religious favoritism or partiality, city Law Director Randall Ullom said in a letter to Fire Chief Dave Ward.

Aside from the fact that there is no separation of church and state provision in the Costitution, do the the actions of these firefighters endorse a religion? 
Do you believe that was the intent of these men...to endorse a religion?
I don't.
 
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/02/08/Firefighters-Christmas-discipline.html

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-19-2016, 03:44 AM)Vlad Wrote:  
Lancaster Oh. fire fighters disciplined for doing something nice.

However well-meaning the sign was, its "Merry Christmas" greeting violated the separation of church and state provision in the U.S. Constitution, city officials said. Governments may not show religious favoritism or partiality, city Law Director Randall Ullom said in a letter to Fire Chief Dave Ward.

Aside from the fact that there is no separation of church and state provision in the Costitution, do the the actions of these firefighters endorse a religion? 
Do you believe that was the intent of these men...to endorse a religion?
I don't.
 
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/02/08/Firefighters-Christmas-discipline.html

I am starting to think moving to Hungary might be the way to go.  Some of these stories just make me SMDH.

[BmorePat87]

I don't want the local government conveying any religious message, whether it is "Merry Christmas" or "Eid Mubarak"

[*bfine32*]

(02-19-2016, 03:44 AM)Vlad Wrote:  


Aside from the fact that there is no separation of church and state provision in the Costitution, do the the actions of these firefighters endorse a religion? 

Somehow:

Quote:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Has become:

Government Officials cannot profess their belief.

[Au165]

My biggest issue is "Christmas" has become a commercialized holiday that has very lose or no affiliation with religion anymore. I celebrate Christmas with my family but none of us are religious. If we get a day off for Christmas, then why can't you say Merry Christmas as in "Merry day off work!"?

[GMDino]

(02-19-2016, 01:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Somehow:


Has become:

Government Officials cannot profess their belief.

Sure they can. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-19-2016, 01:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: My biggest issue is "Christmas" has become a commercialized holiday that has very lose or no affiliation with religion anymore. I celebrate Christmas with my family but none of us are religious. If we get a day off for Christmas, then why can't you say Merry Christmas as in "Merry day off work!"?

Accurate. Christmas has as much religious meaning to me as Thanksgiving does. 
I just see it as a time to be with friends and family. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-19-2016, 01:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: Sure they can. 

Not according to the ruling in the OP.

[GMDino]

(02-19-2016, 01:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: My biggest issue is "Christmas" has become a commercialized holiday that has very lose or no affiliation with religion anymore. I celebrate Christmas with my family but none of us are religious. If we get a day off for Christmas, then why can't you say Merry Christmas as in "Merry day off work!"?

Agreed.

"Merry Christmas" is just fine and dandy with me...without the manger scene..

[Millhouse]

(02-19-2016, 01:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: My biggest issue is "Christmas" has become a commercialized holiday that has very lose or no affiliation with religion anymore. I celebrate Christmas with my family but none of us are religious. If we get a day off for Christmas, then why can't you say Merry Christmas as in "Merry day off work!"?

Exactly. Who the **** cares if they had a Merry Christmas sign up. Its not like they had the 10 commandment sign up or anything, just something that a vast majority of Americans celebrate, religious or not. Just a few whiney bitches out there anymore causing stupid crap like this.

[fredtoast]

WHAT ABOUT THE CRUSADES!!!!!!!

[fredtoast]

(02-19-2016, 02:06 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Exactly. Who the **** cares if they had a Merry Christmas sign up. Its not like they had the 10 commandment sign up or anything, just something that a vast majority of Americans celebrate, religious or not. Just a few whiney bitches out there anymore causing stupid crap like this.

I'll bet it was another crew that filed the complaint.  (if there even was one)

 said Terry Bowers, president of Local 291 of the International Association of Fire Fighters, "and also it was a crew rivalry thing."   






Technically they broke the rules, but this doesn't seem like something that would have brought discipline if they had not used the equipment without the city permission

[Benton]

(02-19-2016, 08:57 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't want the local government conveying any religious message, whether it is "Merry Christmas" or "Eid Mubarak"

Agreed.

On the other hand, if the firefighters put something up not using taxpayer funds, doesn't bother me. But that opens the door if somebody wants to hang a Happy Kwanza sign on the door, too.

[*bfine32*]

(02-19-2016, 02:45 PM)Benton Wrote: Agreed.

On the other hand, if the firefighters put something up not using taxpayer funds, doesn't bother me. But that opens the door if somebody wants to hang a Happy Kwanza sign on the door, too.

What makes you think Hillary works at this Fire Station?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

I guess Vlad didn't continue to read . . .

Quote:The constitution aside, there were other issues with the sign: The firefighters did not have permission to use city time and equipment to pose for it, Ward said Monday, and that is why he disciplined them.

"They were on city time, with city property, with no authority," he said. "We have well-established policies and procedures. They were well aware of it. They chose to do this. They have to ask for permission to use city property for non-city purposes. They didn't."

Quote:A captain was suspended without pay for 48 hours and put on probation for 12 months; three lieutenants were suspended without pay for 24 hours and put on probation for 12 months; and 13 firefighters received written reprimands. The fire chief and the union president agreed to the discipline.

I think the punishment is excessive for the deed.  Surprising the chief and union president agreed.  I'd like to know what was discussed in that conversation.


In an unrelated note, what got Vlad banned?  Forgot to mask his IP or something he wrote?

[Benton]

(02-19-2016, 02:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What makes you think Hillary works at this Fire Station?

Don't think she's winning over fire stations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/us/politics/firefighters-union-backs-away-from-endorsement-of-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0

Although maybe she's double dipping on the pandering. Women AND firefighters.

http://wkrn.com/2016/02/12/women-of-nashville-fire-department-create-first-calendar/

[BmorePat87]

(02-19-2016, 01:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not according to the ruling in the OP.

That's not true. I'd suggest reading the article.

[*bfine32*]

(02-19-2016, 03:15 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: In an unrelated note, what got Vlad banned?  Forgot to mask his IP or something he wrote?

Snitches

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-19-2016, 03:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Snitches

Do you think he will be back as Vlatarsky or Blad?