Florida sixth-grader charged with misdemeanor after refusing to recite Pledge

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-18-2019, 03:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: No it's not.

The narrative that a hoodie helped contribute to Trayvon Martin's death and that black people should be careful about what they wear in public is though.

I think the point being made, badly I might add, is that when kids dress in attire associated with gang members it lends itself to them being mistaken for a gang member.

Quote:Unless there are example of white people being harrassed (or worse) because of their hoodies?

How about MAGA hats?  I could give you two high profile examples without breaking a sweat.  I would expect a consistent person to be as outraged by someone being stereotyped by their MAGA hat as someone being stereotyped by their hoodie. 

Quote:Or course I could also point out some racist and awful things said and done by people wearing MAGA hats too I suppose...on camera.

Sure you could.  Alyssa Milano told me the MAGA hat is the new white hood.  Therefore this must be true.

(02-18-2019, 03:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is one small problem with your assertion.  Hats and sunglasses are used by bank robbers more than hoodies.  In fact there are banks that are trying to implement "no hats or sunglasses" policies, but I don't know of any that are trying to ban hoodies.

Sure, although I wasn't referring to bank robberies.  While all bank robberies are armed robberies not all armed robberies are bank robberies.  As we, and you just did yourself, tend to refer to bank robberies as bank robberies I would think it was rather obvious I'm talking about robberies of convenience stores, jewelers, gas stations, etc.

BTW, I want to thank you for pointing out the sunglasses part.  I ensure I take my sunglasses off immediately upon entering a bank for this exact reason.  Or maybe I should be upset that I'm being stereotyped for wearing sunglasses?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-18-2019, 04:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I passed several individuals with their hoods up on their hoodies while walking around campus, today. None of them robbed me.

I can't tell you how lucky you are to be alive!

[BmorePat87]

(02-18-2019, 04:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How could you escort him to another room if he refused to leave?

I've never once in 8 years seen a kid have to be dragged out or handcuffed and escorted out of a classroom, and my school hosts the county's emotional disability program. 

Approaching the situation understanding that they are a child and extremely emotional and then asking them to come talk to you in another room and explain what happened goes a long way. 

worst case scenario, staff trained with restraining children can come escort them to the other room and then you talk to the child, not arrest them and take them to a juvenile detention center. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-18-2019, 04:09 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I've never once in 8 years seen a kid have to be dragged out or handcuffed and escorted out of a classroom, and my school hosts the county's emotional disability program. 

Approaching the situation understanding that they are a child and extremely emotional and then asking them to come talk to you in another room and explain what happened goes a long way. 

worst case scenario, staff trained with restraining children can come escort them to the other room and then you talk to the child, not arrest them and take them to a juvenile detention center. 

As I said kudis to you and the other educators who do it right 99.9% of the time; however, I'm not willing to assert the detention was unnecessary without additional details. Although Au doesn't think much of the them; I'd assume the threat of violence against a staff member played a role. 

[GMDino]

(02-18-2019, 04:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think the point being made, badly I might add, is that when kids dress in attire associated with gang members it lends itself to them being mistaken for a gang member.

So what I said was true. Thanks.

(02-18-2019, 04:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: How about MAGA hats?  I could give you two high profile examples without breaking a sweat.  I would expect a consistent person to be as outraged by someone being stereotyped by their MAGA hat as someone being stereotyped by their hoodie. 

And, as I said, there are example of MAGA gear wearing people acting racist.

(02-18-2019, 04:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sure you could.  Alyssa Milano told me the MAGA hat is the new white hood.  Therefore this must be true.

Ain't it a beyotch when white people get profiled like black people do?

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2019, 03:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The linked title asserts he was arrested for refusing to stand for the anthem.

You mean the language in the link?

That is what you are crying about "fake news"?  When some one mentions that title of a story that is linked I assume he is talking about the headline or title of the actual story instead of the language in the link.

The headline of the linked story was 100% correct.  That is what most people cry about when they condemn "fake news".

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-18-2019, 04:14 PM)GMDino Wrote: So what I said was true.  Thanks.

That blacks can't wear hoodies?  No.

Quote:And, as I said, there are example of MAGA gear wearing people acting racist.

Sure thing dude.  Does wearing a MAGA hate make one a racist?

Quote:Sure thing dude.  

You changed this to something about being profiled.  I suppose you thought you were being clever.  Here's news for you, everyone is profiled by their outward appearance all the time.  The trick is to not let these preconceptions affect how you interact with these people.  You should invest in this skill.

[*bfine32*]

(02-18-2019, 04:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean the language in the link?

That is what you are crying about "fake news"?

The headline of the linked story was 100% correct.  That is what most people cry about when they condemn "fake news".

I fully explained what I was referring to with the title or as you in typical thimbledick fashion refer to as "crying". 

If the kid at cheerios this morning for breakfast it would have also been 100% correct to say:

Kid arrested after eating cheerios. But then you'd have to determine the author's motive. 

[BmorePat87]

(02-18-2019, 04:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said kudis to you and the other educators who do it right 99.9% of the time; however, I'm not willing to assert the detention was unnecessary without additional details. Although Au doesn't think much of the them; I'd assume the threat of violence against a staff member played a role. 

I don't see any need to arrest a child when the school is equipped to provide a much more appropriate and effective intervention. Outside of some egregiously violent act, which hasn't been described in any of the stories, schools tend to handle these exact scenarios in house. 

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2019, 04:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I fully explained what I was referring to with the title or as you in typical thimbledick fashion refer to as "crying". 

If the kid at cheerios this morning for breakfast it would have also been 100% correct to say:

Kid arrested after eating cheerios. But then you'd have to determine the author's motive. 

If the "fake news crowd" have to depend on the language in a hyperlink (while completely ignoring the actual headline printed for a story) in order to have "ammunition" then they really don't have any ground to stand on.

"Yeah, the headline was accurate and the story was accurate, but the hyperlink could be deceiving.....FAKE NEWS!!!!.  This never happened!!!"





 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-18-2019, 04:30 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't see any need to arrest a child when the school is equipped to provide a much more appropriate and effective intervention. Outside of some egregiously violent act, which hasn't been described in any of the stories, schools tend to handle these exact scenarios in house. 

I would agree.  I would also ask what they mean by "arrest".  If they cited him for violating the law and then released him to his mother that would be radically different then taking him to the police station and going through the detained booking process.  In general I'm not a fan of school aged kids being charged with crimes for things that are normal for their age.

[*bfine32*]

(02-18-2019, 04:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I would agree.  I would also ask what they mean by "arrest".  If they cited him for violating the law and then released him to his mother that would be radically different then taking him to the police station and going through the detained booking process.  In general I'm not a fan of school aged kids being charged with crimes for things that are normal for their age.

This is why I've tried to refer to it as detained. Our biases will mold our views on what is meant by arrest. But some are already using terms such as handcuffed and dragged out; even though the article states he walked out of the classroom

[Belsnickel]

(02-18-2019, 04:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I would agree.  I would also ask what they mean by "arrest".  If they cited him for violating the law and then released him to his mother that would be radically different then taking him to the police station and going through the detained booking process.  In general I'm not a fan of school aged kids being charged with crimes for things that are normal for their age.

I mean, the police department says the student was arrested: https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Student-Arrested-For-Disrupting-the-Classroom.html?soid=1126433696854&aid=o3liV60vSnY

We know he was taken to a juvenile detention facility, but beyond that we don't know what occurred after the arrest.

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2019, 04:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I would agree.  I would also ask what they mean by "arrest".  If they cited him for violating the law and then released him to his mother that would be radically different then taking him to the police station and going through the detained booking process.  In general I'm not a fan of school aged kids being charged with crimes for things that are normal for their age.

(02-18-2019, 05:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is why I've tried to refer to it as detained. Our biases will mold our views on what is meant by arrest. But some are already using terms such as handcuffed and dragged out; even though the article states he walked out of the classroom

I don't see what difference it makes if he was arrested or cited.  That is not why this story is a big deal.  Kids in schools get arrested every day.  


The reason this is a newsworthy story is that a teacher violated his rights by attempting to force him to say the pledge against his will. That is what started all the trouble to begin with.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-18-2019, 05:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't see what difference it makes if he was arrested or cited.  That is not why this story is a big deal.  Kids in schools get arrested every day.

Because the trauma of being taken in handcuffs to a police station and booked is significantly greater then if a police officer has your mom sign a citation.  This really needed to be explained to you?  

Quote:The reason this is a newsworthy story is that a teacher violated his rights by attempting to force him to say the pledge against his will. That is what started all the trouble to begin with.

The teacher was clearly wrong in making this an issue.  However, it is the student's response that led this to being a story.  I'd have to know the details of what prompted the involvement of law enforcement to know whether it was justified.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-18-2019, 05:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mean, the police department says the student was arrested: https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Student-Arrested-For-Disrupting-the-Classroom.html?soid=1126433696854&aid=o3liV60vSnY

We know he was taken to a juvenile detention facility, but beyond that we don't know what occurred after the arrest.

That would seem excessive if he wasn't being violent.

[BmorePat87]

(02-18-2019, 04:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I would agree.  I would also ask what they mean by "arrest".  If they cited him for violating the law and then released him to his mother that would be radically different then taking him to the police station and going through the detained booking process.  In general I'm not a fan of school aged kids being charged with crimes for things that are normal for their age.

The story just said "arrested", "charged with disrupting a school function and resisting an officer without violence", and taken to a "juvenile detention center". 

Seems like a waste of resources when they could have, as you said, released him to his mother at the school. 

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2019, 06:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Because the trauma of being taken in handcuffs to a police station and booked is significantly greater then if a police officer has your mom sign a citation.  This really needed to be explained to you?  

But kids get arrested at school all the time.  That is not why this story made the news.

I think it just detracts from the main issue to act like the arrest is the big issue in this story.

[Beaker]

(02-18-2019, 04:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's your opinion, and also irrelevant. The student was exercising a constitutionally protected right, the teacher was apparently ignorant to that fact and initiated an altercation. Both of them should have handled it better, both of them seem to have faced some sort of punishment for their actions. The big question, that requires a lot more knowledge of the details of this incident, is whether the punishments fit the crimes, so to speak.

I didn't state an opinion on who should be punished or for what. 

[Belsnickel]

(02-19-2019, 01:21 AM)Beaker Wrote: I didn't state an opinion on who should be punished or for what. 

I know, I got into the relevant conversation after stating what you said was an opinion and irrelevant.