For those against the Death Penalty

[*michaelsean*]

Thanks to the people who answered my question about how do we know about the murders people didn’t commit. Don’t know why that didn’t occur to me. My only question would be when they compare murder rates before and after are they comparing death penalty eligible cases or just murders in general?

[*bfine32*]

(07-03-2018, 09:06 PM)Benton Wrote: “Nothing is perfect” is the kind of thing you say when the restaurant messes up your order or the painter gets a line on the baseboards. Applying the same line of thinking to someone’s life is kind of absurd.

Nay, not even kind of. It’s just crazy.

I agree. That's why I wondered why folks could be OK with illegal immigration when at least one illegal immigrant has murdered someone innocent. But your comparison of fast food or painters probably makes more sense to you.

I agree with the "it's just crazy" assessment. 

[Benton]

(07-03-2018, 11:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree. That's why I wondered why folks could be OK with illegal immigration when at least one illegal immigrant has murdered someone innocent. But your comparison of fast food or painters probably makes more sense to you.

I agree with the "it's just crazy" assessment. 

There are people pro-illegal immigration? It seems like it falls pro no immigration (closed borders); pro fix immigration; pro open borders. But I don’t really know anyone advocating for just breaking the law.

[GMDino]

Is there such a thing as IIDS?  

[*bfine32*]

(07-04-2018, 11:23 AM)Benton Wrote: There are people pro-illegal immigration? It seems like it falls pro no immigration (closed borders); pro fix immigration; pro open borders. But I don’t really know anyone advocating for just breaking the law.

Of course there are people pro-illegal immigration. Just scan a few of the immigration threads here and it is quite evident. Folks have even went so far to point out issues with legal immigration to support these lawbreakers.  

[Belsnickel]

(07-04-2018, 12:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course there are people pro-illegal immigration. Just scan a few of the immigration threads here and it is quite evident. Folks have even went so far to point out issues with legal immigration to support these lawbreakers.  

Or maybe the position is that the immigration system should be fixed in a way that makes it easier for people to immigrate legally. Things being fixed like our border laws that allow seasonal workers to come and go back more easily would prevent a good chunk of illegal border crossings. But these are the sorts of things that don't even enter into the discussion because there is this false dichotomy being created thanks to the rhetoric of the extremes.

(07-04-2018, 12:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: Is there such a thing as IIDS?  

I think that is fairly obvious.

[*Nately120*]

(07-04-2018, 12:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course there are people pro-illegal immigration. Just scan a few of the immigration threads here and it is quite evident. Folks have even went so far to point out issues with legal immigration to support these lawbreakers.  

Actions speak louder than words, so people who have specifically hired illegal immigrants and profited from the labor are pro-illegals in my book.  I don't care what people say, if you willingly hire illegals because you'll see more profit than if you hired American citizens you are pro-illegals.  Talk all you want.  Words are meaningless.

[GMDino]

(07-04-2018, 11:23 AM)Benton Wrote: There are people pro-illegal immigration? It seems like it falls pro no immigration (closed borders); pro fix immigration; pro open borders. But I don’t really know anyone advocating for just breaking the law.

There are people who feel illegal immigration is less of a problem then Trump and his minions believe.  People who think the correct answer is legislation/funding to speed up the process of legalization AND to better screen those coming across the border.  The same people who were against Trump's zero tolerance policy because it was immoral and he didn't realize he didn't have the system in place to handle the number of arrests he was going to make.

Then there are people who remain in the camp that says you have to agree with them 100% or you are for "them".  ("Them" being the lawbreakers and criminals.)  Those people think any solution short of a wall and arresting everyone means you want "open borders".  They are backed up on that by FOX News and the POTUS lying about it almost daily.

They then blame "the other side" for being divisive and not loving America.

Happy Independence Day!

[*bfine32*]

(07-04-2018, 12:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Actions speak louder than words, so people who have specifically hired illegal immigrants and profited from the labor are pro-illegals in my book.  I don't care what people say, if you willingly hire illegals because you'll see more profit than if you hired American citizens you are pro-illegals.  Talk all you want.  Words are meaningless.

I agree although you probably should have quoted Benton. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-04-2018, 12:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree although you probably should have quoted Benton. 

Probably.  I'm trying to cram all of my daily internet bs into a small time-frame before I'm thrust out into the world today, so I got a little click-happy.

[*bfine32*]

(07-04-2018, 12:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Probably.  I'm trying to cram all of my daily internet bs into a small time-frame before I'm thrust out into the world today, so I got a little click-happy.

I'm sure he'll see it anyway. It could also be argued that sanctuary cities are pro illegal immigration. To be honest I was shocked that dude didn't know there was such a thing

[Belsnickel]

(07-04-2018, 12:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure he'll see it anyway. It could also be argued that sanctuary cities are pro illegal immigration. To be honest I was shocked that dude didn't know there was such a thing

Or they could be just considered pro-federalist, where they don't do the work of the feds for them.

[*bfine32*]

(07-04-2018, 12:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Or they could be just considered pro-federalist, where they don't do the work of the feds for them.

Sure could. That's why I said it could be argued. Apparently, you agree. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-04-2018, 12:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure he'll see it anyway. It could also be argued that sanctuary cities are pro illegal immigration. To be honest I was shocked that dude didn't know there was such a thing

How far does the rabbit hole go?  I'm a big fan of cheap Wal-Mart fruit, which I'm sure was either harvested by a job-killing machine, or fingered up by a bloodthirsty illegal.  I become an ugly American with every 25 cent apricot I stuff into my greedy gullet.  Have mercy on the criminal.

[fredtoast]

(07-03-2018, 06:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you think he may not of known what he was doing? Do you think he should get life in prison or should we continue to explore his mental health?

To be honest mental health could be used for any murder case. 

And since you have admitted that we should no execute the mentally ill then you alos admit there is not "zero doiubt" cases that justify the death penalty.

[fredtoast]

(07-03-2018, 11:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree. That's why I wondered why folks could be OK with illegal immigration when at least one illegal immigrant has murdered someone innocent.

Because illgal immigrants hjave also saved the lives of legal citizens.

And illegal immigrants have been killed by people who would have killed a legal citizen instead.

It is a zero net some gain.  

[Benton]

(07-04-2018, 12:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure he'll see it anyway. It could also be argued that sanctuary cities are pro illegal immigration. To be honest I was shocked that dude didn't know there was such a thing

You could argue that makes them pro illegal, or that it makes them pro citizens currrently residing there controbuting to their community who have been caught up inside a broken system.

I usually side with the local level over big government. So...

[mallorian69]

I have a question for all of you who are against the death penalty. If someone close to you, say your spouse child or parent were killed, all of it caught on camera, how would you feel knowing that you would be paying for that person to get 3 hots and a cot as well as 100% free medical care for life while your loved one lies cold in the ground? I know I sure as hell wouldn't be ok with that.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-04-2018, 04:37 PM)Benton Wrote: You could argue that makes them pro illegal, or that it makes them pro citizens currrently residing there controbuting to their community who have been caught up inside a broken system.

I usually side with the local level over big government. So...

Me too except Arizona got slapped down, so it's one way or the other.

[Belsnickel]

(07-05-2018, 01:06 AM)mallorian69 Wrote: I have a question for all of you who are against the death penalty. If someone close to you, say your spouse child or parent were killed, all of it caught on camera, how would you feel knowing that you would be paying for that person to get 3 hots and a cot as well as 100% free medical care for life while your loved one lies cold in the ground? I know I sure as hell wouldn't be ok with that.

Obviously it is hard to know for sure until you are in the situation, but I like to think I'd be okay with it. What good does it do for that person to be put to death?

I'm currently looking at the situation in Charlottesville with the death penalty. James Fields, the man who drove into the crowd of protestors killing one, injuring many others, and causing many more to experience PTSD from the event, has been charged with around 30 federal civil rights violations and is therefore eligible for the death penalty. I know a lot of the people that were in the path of that car. I visited people in the hospital in the aftermath, I know some of the medical personnel that treated them that day. I didn't know Heather Heyer, but I know many of those in her circle and have met with her mother. I hope they do not seek the death penalty for him. Putting James Fields in the ground will not heal all of those people. It won't resurrect Heather Heyer. I just don't see the point in ending another life.