H-1B visa program

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/04/04/new-h-1b-visa-measures-employment/99992732/

So just lookin for thoughts on this. I'm actually in agreement with Trump on this one. Go up to Deerfield township/Mason area and it's like "little India" up there due to P&G's headquarters there. Now before anyone jumps on me claiming that I'm anti-Indian. I just find it hard to believe that employers can only find qualified candidates abroad rather than at home. Now I'm not a tech guy, so I've not really had this be a problem for me personally. Maybe some of you that are in the field or more familiar with it can shed more light on it.

Thoughts

[*bfine32*]

(04-07-2017, 03:18 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/04/04/new-h-1b-visa-measures-employment/99992732/

So just lookin for thoughts on this.  I'm actually in agreement with Trump on this one.  Go up to Deerfield township/Mason area and it's like "little India" up there due to P&G's headquarters there.  Now before anyone jumps on me claiming that I'm anti-Indian.  I just find it hard to believe that employers can only find qualified candidates abroad rather than at home.  Now I'm not a tech guy, so I've not really had this be a problem for me personally. Maybe some of you that are in the field or more familiar with it can shed more light on it.

Thoughts

My thoughts are it will most likely just be the 2 of use.

[Au165]

I actually agree, it had it's uses once upon a time but should be done away with.

[Millhouse]

I agree with it too. However, what if there is a large amount of jobs that are needed to be filled, but simply not enough Americans qualified to fill them. And that seems to be the case.

I was listening to 700 wlw the other day, and this similar thing was brought up. And the one guy they were speaking with said there was 100,000+ jobs that need to be filled in an IT field, but only 20-some thousand of Americans have the IT 'degrees' to do them. (I dont know the specifics of exactly what it was as I tuned in the middle of it).

And this is from thehill site from a year ago, and is about not enough American kids trained in computer sciences & H1B visas is mentioned too. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/education/277290-not-enough-american-kids-trained-in-computer-sciences

I am just curious as to what companies will do, seeing how apparently there arent enough qualified Americans to fill the jobs needed. America First is a novel idea and all so Americans arent being passed up for cheaper labor. But if they arent qualified to begin with and jobs are needed to be filled, it makes that point a bit mundane.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(04-07-2017, 03:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My thoughts are it will most likely just be the 2 of use.

You might be right, I guess.  Still it is a Friday and people probably have other plans than arguing about immigration.  In fact, I've got to go pick up my son,  but I'll most likely be on later this evening if anyone is interested in sharing their thoughts.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(04-07-2017, 05:29 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I agree with it too. However, what if there is a large amount of jobs that are needed to be filled, but simply not enough Americans qualified to fill them. And that seems to be the case.

I was listening to 700 wlw the other day, and this similar thing was brought up. And the one guy they were speaking with said there was 100,000+ jobs that need to be filled in an IT field, but only 20-some thousand of Americans have the IT 'degrees' to do them. (I dont know the specifics of exactly what it was as I tuned in the middle of it).

And this is from thehill site from a year ago, and is about not enough American kids trained in computer sciences & H1B visas is mentioned too. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/education/277290-not-enough-american-kids-trained-in-computer-sciences

I am just curious as to what companies will do, seeing how apparently there arent enough qualified Americans to fill the jobs needed. America First is a novel idea and all so Americans arent being passed up for cheaper labor. But if they arent qualified to begin with and jobs are needed to be filled, it makes that point a bit mundane.

I've got to go at the moment, but I will read your link later when I get home.  I'm interested for sure in seeing what you've pulled up.  Thanks.

[Belsnickel]

(04-07-2017, 05:29 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I agree with it too. However, what if there is a large amount of jobs that are needed to be filled, but simply not enough Americans qualified to fill them. And that seems to be the case.

I was listening to 700 wlw the other day, and this similar thing was brought up. And the one guy they were speaking with said there was 100,000+ jobs that need to be filled in an IT field, but only 20-some thousand of Americans have the IT 'degrees' to do them. (I dont know the specifics of exactly what it was as I tuned in the middle of it).

And this is from thehill site from a year ago, and is about not enough American kids trained in computer sciences & H1B visas is mentioned too. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/education/277290-not-enough-american-kids-trained-in-computer-sciences

I am just curious as to what companies will do, seeing how apparently there arent enough qualified Americans to fill the jobs needed. America First is a novel idea and all so Americans arent being passed up for cheaper labor. But if they arent qualified to begin with and jobs are needed to be filled, it makes that point a bit mundane.

I had heard a discussion on NPR about the issue where they talked some about this. They talked about how it is the shortage of qualified people in the US that causes the use of H1Bs. More than one person representing different businesses said that it was definitely a consideration of moving the jobs out of the country if the ability to get them is even more restricted.

They also talked about the lottery system for these and how much harder it is for the smaller companies to get the visas and how it is the small business owners that will be hurt the most by the further restrictions because they don't have the resources to put as much into the lottery process as the larger companies. It was a very interesting discussion, to say the least.

It's interesting because lower skilled jobs are being lost to automation and robots, and we have to look to other countries to bring in people skilled enough to work on those things. It seems like there is a step in the middle there that our government could potentially do a better job of assisting in. I just can't quite put my finger on it...

[Au165]

(04-07-2017, 05:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I had heard a discussion on NPR about the issue where they talked some about this. They talked about how it is the shortage of qualified people in the US that causes the use of H1Bs. More than one person representing different businesses said that it was definitely a consideration of moving the jobs out of the country if the ability to get them is even more restricted.

They also talked about the lottery system for these and how much harder it is for the smaller companies to get the visas and how it is the small business owners that will be hurt the most by the further restrictions because they don't have the resources to put as much into the lottery process as the larger companies. It was a very interesting discussion, to say the least.

It's interesting because lower skilled jobs are being lost to automation and robots, and we have to look to other countries to bring in people skilled enough to work on those things. It seems like there is a step in the middle there that our government could potentially do a better job of assisting in. I just can't quite put my finger on it...

One question I'd have is what jobs they are actually considering "IT". It is a very broad term that gets over used often. There is a huge demand for help desk workers which is considered IT by many, but the reality is these positions can easily be filled by people with simple Microsoft certifications. Obviously there is a demand for engineers and such, but I am skeptical that they don't use the lower level jobs that they look for over qualified candidates to boost their argument for the need of the H1-b program.

[Belsnickel]

(04-07-2017, 05:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: One question I'd have is what jobs they are actually considering "IT". It is a very broad term that gets over used often. There is a huge demand for help desk workers which is considered IT by many, but the reality is these positions can easily be filled by people with simple Microsoft certifications. Obviously there is a demand for engineers and such, but I am skeptical that they don't use the lower level jobs that they look for over qualified candidates to boost their argument for the need of the H1-b program.

The types of jobs they were talking about were the ones that required advanced degrees. I would be willing to bet that if this type of thing is happening, it is happening at the larger companies. This, of course, would do even more damage to the smaller companies. But, what causes me to be skeptical of your skepticism (skeptiception?) is that the time, effort, and resources involved in using the H1B process to staff positions would prohibitive to this kind of thing.

[Au165]

(04-07-2017, 06:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The types of jobs they were talking about were the ones that required advanced degrees. I would be willing to bet that if this type of thing is happening, it is happening at the larger companies. This, of course, would do even more damage to the smaller companies. But, what causes me to be skeptical of your skepticism (skeptiception?) is that the time, effort, and resources involved in using the H1B process to staff positions would prohibitive to this kind of thing.

They pay the H1B program members less than they do American counter parts.

[Belsnickel]

(04-07-2017, 07:21 PM)Au165 Wrote: They pay the H1B program members less than they do American counter parts.

Do we have current information on that? I saw some things over a decade old making that claim, and I know there were revisions to the program that curbed that significantly by making employers pay what is called a prevailing wage. That was either in 2008 or 2010.

[Au165]

(04-07-2017, 07:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Do we have current information on that? I saw some things over a decade old making that claim, and I know there were revisions to the program that curbed that significantly by making employers pay what is called a prevailing wage. That was either in 2008 or 2010.

I just know anecdotal evidence from guys in the industry. They ask for the average and the H1bs take the low end.

[treee]

From my understanding, H1-B is being abused by artificially increasing the job requirements while not matching those requirements with a competitive salary, that way it can be said they "found no qualified candidates" and are allowed to resort to H1-B.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

[Belsnickel]

(04-07-2017, 08:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: I just know anecdotal evidence from guys in the industry. They ask for the average and the H1bs take the low end.

And that may be stuff that's been floating around for years that is no longer necessarily the case. I haven't seen current data on it, but I would definitely like to see what it looks like now after reforms to the program.

(04-07-2017, 09:07 PM)treee Wrote: From my understanding, H1-B is being abused by artificially increasing the job requirements while not matching those requirements with a competitive salary, that way it can be said they "found no qualified candidates" and are allowed to resort to H1-B.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

It's actually my understanding that they don't even have to try to hire someone domestically first, unless they fall into a couple of different categories, one of which includes those that have abused the program or broken its rules in the past.

[Millhouse]

For the record, I know little about this. But just thought I share the one aspect I have heard/read about. Interested to read more about it in here tho.

[Benton]

(04-07-2017, 07:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Do we have current information on that? I saw some things over a decade old making that claim, and I know there were revisions to the program that curbed that significantly by making employers pay what is called a prevailing wage. That was either in 2008 or 2010.

some states are moving away from prevailing wage.

as far as the order, good. I am surprised though.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

Thanks for every ones input. I'm not a tech guy or even that tech savvy. I introduced the thread mainly to get others opinions as it was something I wasn't very aware of until recently. Much of my opinion has been shaped thus far by people that are in the field sharing their experiences of losing jobs to foreign workers because they can be hired cheaper. It just seems ludicrous that we don't have enough young people sufficiently trained to fill these jobs. And if it is the case then we really need to be looking at our education system as to why we are not producing enough of these skilled workers. One of the posts here mentioned (I didn't quote anyone because I'm mainly responding to everyone that replied) that if they didn't bring the workers in, the jobs would just be outsourced. But either way Americans are losing jobs, and I can't help but feel that is to help the bottom line. I've heard stories that companies will change the job description to make it seem like there aren't enough qualified candidates in this country, therefore they must look outside to fill it. It just seems weird to me that as technologically advanced as this country is, that we'd have to look to third world countries to fill the void.

Again thanks for every ones input. I would like to respond to some of these post individually but I need to be getting to bed soon, got work tomorrow.

[xxlt]

(04-07-2017, 05:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I had heard a discussion on NPR about the issue where they talked some about this. They talked about how it is the shortage of qualified people in the US that causes the use of H1Bs. More than one person representing different businesses said that it was definitely a consideration of moving the jobs out of the country if the ability to get them is even more restricted.

They also talked about the lottery system for these and how much harder it is for the smaller companies to get the visas and how it is the small business owners that will be hurt the most by the further restrictions because they don't have the resources to put as much into the lottery process as the larger companies. It was a very interesting discussion, to say the least.

It's interesting because lower skilled jobs are being lost to automation and robots, and we have to look to other countries to bring in people skilled enough to work on those things. It seems like there is a step in the middle there that our government could potentially do a better job of assisting in. I just can't quite put my finger on it...

^ This. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-07-2017, 10:22 PM)Benton Wrote: some states are moving away from prevailing wage.

as far as the order, good. I am surprised though.

I saw the information about prevailing wage on the DoL website, so wouldn't that be a federal regulation?

[fredtoast]

For all of you curious about the high number of engineers from India.

Population of India..... 1.25 BILLION

Population of U.S. ..... 325 MILLION

India is by far the world largest democracy. Their population is almost 4 times that of the US.