HOO WUN??

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 09:23 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I'd argue we need better CANDIDATES.

We won't get better candidates until we get better voters.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-30-2020, 09:32 AM)Nately120 Wrote: My gripe is that Trump brags his supporters would never waiver, yet he won't just flat out denounce white supremacy. 

He did, though.

I don't remember the exact words, but Wallace asked him if he denounces white supremacy and before Wallace finished the question Trump was answering with "Yes" or "I do".

He also has in the past.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists

[BigPapaKain]

(09-30-2020, 09:29 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Technically he told them to stand back and stand by (whatever that's supposed to mean), but are the proud boys a white supremacist group? According to Wikipedia they have officially rejected white supremacy. 

I can say I rejected alcohol, but if I keep the shit in my house have I really rejected it?

[hollodero]

(09-30-2020, 09:29 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Technically he told them to stand back and stand by (whatever that's supposed to mean), but are the proud boys a white supremacist group? According to Wikipedia they have officially rejected white supremacy. 

Well, that might be a matter of definition, their self-definition doesn't really thread the needle for me.

Wikipedia also calls them a neofascist group with ties to the white genocide theory.

And I have a theory what "stand by" is supposed to mean (also according to my translator), and so have those proud boys that apparently got a clear message out of it too. One Trump should thoroughly refute by any measures of democratic values and basic decency, but of course he won't.

[*Nately120*]

(09-30-2020, 09:38 AM)PhilHos Wrote: He did, though.

I don't remember the exact words, but Wallace asked him if he denounces white supremacy and before Wallace finished the question Trump was answering with "Yes" or "I do".

He also has in the past.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists

Right, followed by some qualifying and a shout out to a specific group and shifting the blame to the left.  Its one of those questions where you're probably supposed to give a terse and pointed response. 

It's not a question where a paragraph response is seen favorably. 

[Big Boss]

(09-30-2020, 09:38 AM)PhilHos Wrote: He did, though.

I don't remember the exact words, but Wallace asked him if he denounces white supremacy and before Wallace finished the question Trump was answering with "Yes" or "I do".

With such loud conviction that nobody heard it.

Nobody missed the second part, though. That's for sure.

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 09:29 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Technically he told them to stand back and stand by (whatever that's supposed to mean), but are the proud boys a white supremacist group? According to Wikipedia they have officially rejected white supremacy. 

They call themselves "Western chauvinists."

"Stand by" is definitely not "Stand down" even.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-30-2020, 09:41 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I can say I rejected alcohol, but if I keep the shit in my house have I really rejected it?

Denounce does not equal reject. Denounce - "publicly declare to be wrong or evil."

Trump has denounced white supremacy. Therefore it would be factually incorrect to claim he has not.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-30-2020, 09:47 AM)Dill Wrote: They call themselves "Western chauvinists."

According to Wikipedia, this is true. But Trump wasn't asked to denounce western chavunism.

(09-30-2020, 09:47 AM)Dill Wrote: "Stand by" is definitely not "Stand down" even.

No, it's not. But he told them to do both. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-30-2020, 09:47 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Denounce does not equal reject. Denounce - "publicly declare to be wrong or evil."

Trump has denounced white supremacy. Therefore it would be factually incorrect to claim he has not.

Do you denounce white supremacy?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-30-2020, 09:45 AM)Big Boss Wrote: With such loud conviction that nobody heard it.

False. But even so, he still did denounced white supremacy. To claim that he did not is fake news.

(09-30-2020, 09:45 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Nobody missed the second part, though.  That's for sure.

Nope, they sure didn't. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-30-2020, 09:50 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Do you denounce white supremacy?

Yes. Do you?

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 09:41 AM)hollodero Wrote: Well, that might be a matter of definition, their self-definition doesn't really thread the needle for me.

Wikipedia also calls them a neofascist group with ties to the white genocide theory.

And I have a theory what "stand by" is supposed to mean (also according to my translator), and so have those proud boys that apparently got a clear message out of it too. One Trump should thoroughly refute by any measures of democratic values and basic decency, but of course he won't.

If there is a problem in the Middle East, the President might put several Air Force squadrons on STAND BY, ready to move out on a moment's notice.

In this case it is a civilian group with an unofficial relation to the president.

[*Nately120*]

(09-30-2020, 09:51 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes. Do you?

Yes.


Hey look how quick and easy and direct we both answered that.  Take note, Trump et al.

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 09:51 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes. Do you?

Do you denounce "Western chauvinism"?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-30-2020, 09:41 AM)hollodero Wrote: Well, that might be a matter of definition, their self-definition doesn't really thread the needle for me.

Wikipedia also calls them a neofascist group with ties to the white genocide theory.

Yeah, I was setting up the argument about people being born with penises identifying as female, but no one bit. 

(09-30-2020, 09:41 AM)hollodero Wrote: And I have a theory what "stand by" is supposed to mean (also according to my translator), and so have those proud boys that apparently got a clear message out of it too. One Trump should thoroughly refute by any measures of democratic values and basic decency, but of course he won't.

Personally, I think Trump had no idea he was telling them to "stand by" in the way in which everyone is thinking he meant. I'm sure, he'll come out today with a 'what I meant was' statement. The problem is that he DID tell them to 'stand by' and he did it on national TV. Yes, he told them to stand down first, but he told them to 'stand by' and they're running with it.  

[*Nately120*]

(09-30-2020, 09:53 AM)Dill Wrote: Do you denounce "Western chauvinism"?

That reminds me of my confirmation. Do you reject satan and all his empty promises?  Yes, but let me point out that there are plenty of empty promises coming from god.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-30-2020, 09:52 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Yes.


Hey look how quick and easy and direct we both answered that.  Take note, Trump et al.

(09-30-2020, 09:53 AM)Dill Wrote: Do you denounce "Western chauvinism"?

I do. I'm sure Trump would too if he was asked.

Do you denounce 'Western chavunisim' and white supremacy, too?

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 09:57 AM)PhilHos Wrote:


I do. I'm sure Trump would too if he was asked.

Do you denounce 'Western chavunisim' and white supremacy, too?

Huunhhh? What?  "Western chauvinism and white supremacy"?

Whaaa . . . um  well er which groups do you mean? Give me some names.

What do you want me to say and I'll say it?   

[*PhilHos*]

(09-30-2020, 10:06 AM)Dill Wrote: Huunhhh? What?  "Western chauvinism and white supremacy"?

Whaaa . . . um  well er which groups do you mean? Give me some names.

What do you want me to say and I'll say it?