Hillary: An Unborn Child Hours Before Delivery Has No Constitutional Rights

[fredtoast]

(08-01-2016, 09:56 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Who knew social conservatives had so few opinions?  

Who?

The people who can't come up with another example to counter what I said.

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2016, 12:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Many people are not in favor of abortion, but understand that the mother has the right to make the decision.

Just like it is possible to disagree with the opinions of the KKK but still understanding that they have the right to express their opinions.

So it is possible to not support the act of abortion but still support the mothers rights.

In interviews, Hillary refers to it as an unborn child, not an unborn fetus.

Right there, she is advocating murder by acknowledging that it is a person.

The mother has the right to kill a child that can feel pain and is growing and developing like all children do?

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(07-31-2016, 10:58 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You're now taking two issues and merging them. You cannot have an abortion that late in a pregnancy and she isn't advocating for it. She said, under the law, you have no constitutional rights until you are born. The fact that a fetus doesn't have constitutional rights doesn't mean the courts say it is ok to abort it. 

(07-31-2016, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And Hillary would tell you that it is illegal to have an abortion at that point except in order to save the mothers life.

Pretty much this.

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2016, 11:25 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Pretty much this.

Except see my post above and realize that Hillary calls it an unborn child, not an unborn fetus. 

[Belsnickel]

(08-01-2016, 11:28 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Except see my post above and realize that Hillary calls it an unborn child, not an unborn fetus. 

Calling it an unborn fetus would be redundant and improper. Saying unborn child or baby would be the same as saying fetus (or embryo). You would either say unborn child/baby or fetus, but not unborn fetus. She really should have just said fetus.

It's kind of like lava v. magma. You don't (or rather shouldn't) say "underground magma" and you really shouldn't say "underground lava" either. You instead call it magma when it is below ground and lava once erupted.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-01-2016, 11:28 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Except see my post above and realize that Hillary calls it an unborn child, not an unborn fetus. 

Except I did see your posts and have read many of your posts on various subjects and rarely do I agree with you.  Many have already made valid arguments/points against yours.  I doubt that anything I say will sway your opinion.  Anyway I'm off to work now, have a good day guys.

[fredtoast]

Brad, how old were you when you were born?

Did you try to buy beer 9 months before your 18th birthday by arguing that you were already 18 years old?

[fredtoast]

(08-01-2016, 11:28 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Except see my post above and realize that Hillary calls it an unborn child, not an unborn fetus. 

I saw that post and it changes nothing.  The semantics are irrelevant to the law.

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2016, 11:40 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Calling it an unborn fetus would be redundant and improper. Saying unborn child or baby would be the same as saying fetus (or embryo). You would either say unborn child/baby or fetus, but not unborn fetus. She really should have just said fetus.

It's kind of like lava v. magma. You don't (or rather shouldn't) say "underground magma" and you really shouldn't say "underground lava" either. You instead call it magma when it is below ground and lava once erupted.

False.

Legally, a fetus is called a fetus because it can't live outside of the mother, but a baby or child can, so she's saying it's ok to murder something that can survive outside of the mother.

(08-01-2016, 01:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Brad, how old were you when you were born?

Did you try to buy beer 9 months before your 18th birthday by arguing that you were already 18 years old?

In my state, and most states, you need to be 21 to purchase alcohol.

However, birthday is a measure from the day you were born, not the day you were created.

Thanks for playing but this is getting too easy.

(08-01-2016, 01:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I saw that post and it changes nothing.  The semantics are irrelevant to the law.

False.

See above.

They also are relevant to morality and the right thing to do.

[Belsnickel]

(08-01-2016, 02:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: False.

Legally, a fetus is called a fetus because it can't live outside of the mother, but a baby or child can, so she's saying it's ok to murder something that can survive outside of the mother.
In my state, and most states, you need to be 21 to purchase alcohol.

Citation, please? I've never seen a legal definition of fetus. I am only aware of the English language definitions and the biological classification. All of which point to a fetus being the stage after embryonic and ending at birth.

[fredtoast]

(08-01-2016, 02:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: False.

Legally, a fetus is called a fetus because it can't live outside of the mother, but a baby or child can, so she's saying it's ok to murder something that can survive outside of the mother.

There is no legal distinction between "fetus" and "unborn child".

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2016, 02:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Citation, please? I've never seen a legal definition of fetus. I am only aware of the English language definitions and the biological classification. All of which point to a fetus being the stage after embryonic and ending at birth.

nationalparalegal.edu

Quote:The common law rule is that a fetus is not considered a living human being until it has been born alive.

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2016, 02:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is no legal distinction between "fetus" and "unborn child".

nationalparalegal.edu

Quote:The common law rule is that a fetus is not considered a living human being until it has been born alive

[fredtoast]

(08-01-2016, 02:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: In my state, and most states, you need to be 21 to purchase alcohol.

However, birthday is a measure from the day you were born, not the day you were created.

Thanks for playing but this is getting too easy.

This entire discussion is about legal rights.  

So if you are arguing that a person exists as an individual before he is born how can you say your age should be determined by your "birth date" instead of you "conception date".

How old were you when you were born?

[Belsnickel]

(08-01-2016, 02:48 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: nationalparalegal.edu

The link is a broken link, but the quote your provided does not provide the definition you claim. It doesn't define fetus at all, but it also supports the assertion that a fetus is not considered a person until being born, not when a fetus is viable.

[fredtoast]

(08-01-2016, 02:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: nationalparalegal.edu



[/url]nationalparalegal.edu

Quote: Wrote:The common law rule is that a fetus is not considered a living human being until it has been born alive

[url=http://nationalparalegal.edu/public_documents/courseware_asp_files/criminalLaw/homicide/DefinitionsofLifeandDeath.asp]

And that means exactly the same thing as "unborn child".  An "unborn child" is not considered a living human being until it has been born alive.

The semantics are irrelevant.

[fredtoast]

(08-01-2016, 02:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: They also are relevant to morality and the right thing to do.

Hillary was talking about the law.  Not the morality.

As I have said before.  You can be morally opposed to abortion, but still support the freedom of the woman to make the choice.

[*bfine32*]

(08-01-2016, 02:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And that means exactly the same thing as "unborn child".  An "unborn child" is not considered a living human being until it has been born alive.

The semantics are irrelevant.

Two question being as we are not going with semantics:

Is a fetus alive?

Is a fetus of a ***** sapien human?

EDIT: For real/ of all the words that are allowed here ho-mo is not one.

[BFritz21]

(08-01-2016, 02:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This entire discussion is about legal rights.  

So if you are arguing that a person exists as an individual before he is born how can you say your age should be determined by your "birth date" instead of you "conception date".

How old were you when you were born?

Because it is traditional that birthday is measured from the date of birth.

However, every parent that I've ever talked to, seen interviewed, or read about, says you become a parent the second you find out that you or your female partner is pregnant.  

How are they a parent if the baby is something that it's ok to just kill?

(08-01-2016, 02:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And that means exactly the same thing as "unborn child".  An "unborn child" is not considered a living human being until it has been born alive.

The semantics are irrelevant.

The cut-off date for abortion to be is in most states like 24 to 26 weeks, but I just saw an article where a baby was born three weeks prior to the cut-off date and was fine and healthy, so how can you lay out a blanket statement that's completely false and doesn't cover all children.  

The semantics are not irrelevant.  Legality is strict, black-and-white and very specific.  You can't say "oh, the details are irrelevant here" because it fits your belief.

(08-01-2016, 02:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hillary was talking about the law.  Not the morality.

As I have said before.  You can be morally opposed to abortion, but still support the freedom of the woman to make the choice.

She was saying it was the law because she supports it and doesn't want to sound like she supports murder, which she does by supporting abortion.

If she didn't believe in it, she would have just said "yes, I support it," and not "that is what the law states."  

That's the Democratic way- say it's a choice, even though unethical, rather than doing the right thing.

[Benton]

(08-01-2016, 03:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Two question being as we are not going with semantics:

Is a fetus alive?

Is a fetus of a ***** sapien human?

EDIT: For real/ of all the words that are allowed here ho-mo is not one.

Really? We nearly had to asterisk a car part because of misuse, but that word surprises you?

(08-01-2016, 03:15 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: She was saying it was the law because she supports it 

Her opinion is not why it's a law. It's a law because of SCOTUS decisions.