I applaud Chris Matthews for asking this question, i think it's important that we have these discussions so we all realize where we are at one way or the other .
Quote:“See, I’m asking you! You’re a Democrat. He’s a socialist. Do you like someone calling you a socialist? I wouldn’t like someone calling me a socialist,” Matthews said.
“Well, you see, I’m not one,” Clinton replied.
Matthews still wasn’t pleased with the answer.
“Well, what’s the difference between a socialist and a Democrat?” he asked. “That’s the question.”
“Well, I can tell you what I am,” Clinton said. “I am a progressive Democrat.”
“How’s that different than a socialist?” Matthews fired back.
Clinton didn’t answer, but only said she’s a Democrat who “likes to get things done.”
funny thing is, that was supposed to be a softball....Clinton didn't have a good answer. But a progressive that "likes to get things done" IS a subtle distinction between left and right-wing ideologues.
Quote:Dangerous confusion threatened the Republicans on the second day of their convention. In an interview on the NBC Today Show, President Bush was deferentially asked about the war on terrorism. "I don't think you can win it," he replied. For hours afterwards, his campaign issued bulletins to say he hadn't meant it.
Finally, appearing before the American Legion veterans in Nashville, Bush declared: "We will win."
Vice-President Dick Cheney helpfully explained: "The president certainly never intended to convey the notion that we can't win."
By breaking his own iron law - "I don't do nuance" - Bush had blurred himself into the negative image of John Kerry as a flip-flopper. Nuance leads to ambivalence, which can lead to inaction; and who then can be an action hero?
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
How can Hillary comment on how Bernie Sanders defines his political position? Isn't that a question for Bernie?
In fact in the interview Chris clearly says that Hillary is NOT a socialist. So i don't know why he even needed to ask her the question. If he knows she is not a socialist then he knows the difference.
Socialism is a political ideology that the Democrats embrace pieces of in their platform, however individual candidates (even some GOP ones) tend to embrace more or less depending on their personal stance. Sanders embraces more socialism than Clinton does, plain and simple.
Of course saying this would just raise hackles because we mistakenly see socialism as a bad word that the hawkish "conservatives" over the years that have painted an image of socialism that does not accurately represent what the political ideology is actually all about. So she skirts the conversation because she doesn't want to cause a ruckus by telling the truth and wasn't quick enough to come up with a slick way to make it sound better or answering the question without answering it in a way that no one would notice.
(01-06-2016, 01:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How can Hillary comment on how Bernie Sanders defines his political position? Isn't that a question for Bernie?
In fact in the interview Chris clearly says that Hillary is NOT a socialist. So i don't know why he even needed to ask her the question. If he knows she is not a socialist then he knows the difference.
Yeah, it's probably best not to know the political position of your oppenent. And you damn sure don't want to be able to point out differences between yours and theirs.
(01-06-2016, 01:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How can Hillary comment on how Bernie Sanders defines his political position? Isn't that a question for Bernie?
In fact in the interview Chris clearly says that Hillary is NOT a socialist. So i don't know why he even needed to ask her the question. If he knows she is not a socialist then he knows the difference.
She said she was a progressive democrat and he asked what the difference between thaf and a socialist. She said she "likes to get things done"
(01-06-2016, 02:42 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: He asked about her not Bernie.
And she answered about herself, not Bernie.
Since Chris claims he knows the answer he is a pretty poor journalist to phrase the question the way he did. Since he already knew the answer he ahouls have ask her a specific question about her position based on his knowledge.
Shouldn't ANYONE in politics be able to define ANY political ideology ?
Is this not the simplest thing to answer, given their supposed education and experience ?
It doesn't matter if it reflects their ideology.
If you don't answer the question, you appear inadequate.
Is it really that hard to say that socialism is government ownership of the means of production (or whatever word or phrase you can substitute for that) and my economic platforms differs from that because X,Y and Z? That would have answered the question, while still making the answer about herself and her policies. It would have also correctly identify what socialism actually is, as compared to how it is incorrectly used in politics and by every economic illiterate buffoon who tries discussing economic policy.
(01-06-2016, 02:57 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Shouldn't ANYONE in politics be able to define ANY political ideology ?
Is this not the simplest thing to answer, given their supposed education and experience ?
It doesn't matter if it reflects their ideology.
If you don't answer the question, you appear inadequate.
Pretty much.
The argument for career politicians is that they know the system better. But how can that be true if you don't even know what someone who identifies as something stands for?
(01-06-2016, 02:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Socialism is a political ideology that the Democrats embrace pieces of in their platform, however individual candidates (even some GOP ones) tend to embrace more or less depending on their personal stance. Sanders embraces more socialism than Clinton does, plain and simple.
Of course saying this would just raise hackles because we mistakenly see socialism as a bad word that the hawkish "conservatives" over the years that have painted an image of socialism that does not accurately represent what the political ideology is actually all about. So she skirts the conversation because she doesn't want to cause a ruckus by telling the truth and wasn't quick enough to come up with a slick way to make it sound better or answering the question without answering it in a way that no one would notice.
Sanders is a self-described 'Democratic Socialist' which is one of many forms of socialism. That aspect has been overlooked by many, as described in the dreaded Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
It's complicated for many it seems.
Some say you can place your ear next to his, and hear the ocean ....
(01-06-2016, 03:50 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Sanders is a self-described 'Democratic Socialist' which is one of many forms of socialism. That aspect has been overlooked by many, as described in the dreaded Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
It's complicated for many it seems.
Well, most people don't understand what socialism truly is and they don't realize there are many ways to look at socialism. They don't know the difference between Marxism, Maoism, Leninism, and all the rest. All because of the dreaded reds, some just see the word and immediately shut down any open mindedness towards the policies.
(01-06-2016, 04:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, most people don't understand what socialism truly is and they don't realize there are many ways to look at socialism. They don't know the difference between Marxism, Maoism, Leninism, and all the rest. All because of the dreaded reds, some just see the word and immediately shut down any open mindedness towards the policies.
My experience with not only acquaintances and nosy neighbors, but friends and family too. Stuck in mid-20th century I guess.....
Some say you can place your ear next to his, and hear the ocean ....
(01-06-2016, 04:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, most people don't understand what socialism truly is and they don't realize there are many ways to look at socialism. They don't know the difference between Marxism, Maoism, Leninism, and all the rest. All because of the dreaded reds, some just see the word and immediately shut down any open mindedness towards the policies.
Well we get called fascists so too bad.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
(01-06-2016, 03:36 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Is it really that hard to say that socialism is government ownership of the means of production (or whatever word or phrase you can substitute for that) and my economic platforms differs from that because X,Y and Z?
Except Bernie does not believe it that at all yet he identifies as a socialist.
All Socialists, at their core, see the govt as Adam Smith's "invisible hand". Problem is, if most of these schmucks had a talent for business or economics they wouldn't be in govt.
(01-09-2016, 09:43 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: All Socialists, at their core, see the govt as Adam Smith's "invisible hand". Problem is, if most of these schmucks had a talent for business or economics they wouldn't be in govt.
And if the schmucks in business had any talent they would not need the government to bail them out.
I am no expert in economics, but as I understand it Smith's "invisible hand" is a reference to the claim that a free market works best for society without regulation, and history has proven this is not true.
A government is not supposed to be ran on a profit motive. Instead the opposite is true. the government is supposed to protect society from the damage cause by unregulated capitalism.
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