Hoda Muthana

[*bfine32*]

I'm sure this is a story we can all see eye-to-eye on

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/world/middleeast/isis-bride-hoda-muthana.html

Quote:President Trump said Wednesday the United States would not re-admit an American-born woman who traveled to Syria to join the Islamic State and now wants to come home.

The woman, Hoda Muthana, does not qualify for citizenship and has no legal basis to return to the country, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said.

In 2014, Ms. Muthana, then a 20-year-old student in Alabama, traveled to Turkey, hiding her plans from her family. She told them she was heading to a university event.

In fact she was smuggled into Syria, where she met up with the Islamic State and began urging attacks in the West.

Seems the best thing for her would be to not be declared a US Citizen. As a citizen she would be subject to charges of treason.

[Benton]

Yeah, joining a terrorist group is a no-no. If she's advocated for terrorist action and tries to return to the US, she should be arrested

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-20-2019, 10:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure this is a story we can all see eye-to-eye on

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/world/middleeast/isis-bride-hoda-muthana.html


Seems the best thing for her would be to not be declared a US Citizen. As a citizen she would be subject to charges of treason.

(02-20-2019, 11:42 PM)Benton Wrote: Yeah, joining a terrorist group is a no-no. If she's advocated for terrorist action and tries to return to the US, she should be arrested

There is no mechanism for revoking a natural born citizen's citizenship.  She's clearly guilty of providing material support to a terrorist organization, she should serve significant federal prison time for this.

[*bfine32*]

(02-20-2019, 11:42 PM)Benton Wrote: Yeah, joining a terrorist group is a no-no. If she's advocated for terrorist action and tries to return to the US, she should be arrested

(02-20-2019, 11:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: There is no mechanism for revoking a natural born citizen's citizenship.  She's clearly guilty of providing material support to a terrorist organization, she should serve significant federal prison time for this.

This is why I don't understand her desire to be considered a citizen and returned to the US.

Given she could be a cautionary tale, but she can be that where she's currently at. 

[Dill]

(02-20-2019, 10:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure this is a story we can all see eye-to-eye on

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/world/middleeast/isis-bride-hoda-muthana.html

Seems the best thing for her would be to not be declared a US Citizen. As a citizen she would be subject to charges of treason.

If she was born in the U.S. how does she not qualify for citizenship?  Because she already is???

She has been "levying war" I guess. Certainly "adhering" to an enemy. 

But has Congress declared war on ISIS?  I am wondering if this "treason" might have the same status as "adhering" to a criminal gang. Criminal but not treason.  Maybe Fred or Bels would know?

 It would be interesting to know if she wants to come back simply because there is now no future for her with ISIS in Syria or because she genuinely found the Islamic State a horror to live under. If the latter, then it would be a valuable counter-terror measure if she could be returned to the U.S. and her story told, step by step, from recruitment to arrival in Syria, to what life was like under ISIS. Especially for a young woman. She could do that from jail.

[fredtoast]

Is she hot?

[SunsetBengal]

(02-21-2019, 09:15 AM)Dill Wrote: If she was born in the U.S. how does she not qualify for citizenship?  Because she already is???

She has been "levying war" I guess. Certainly "adhering" to an enemy. 

But has Congress declared war on ISIS?  I am wondering if this "treason" might have the same status as "adhering" to a criminal gang. Criminal but not treason.  Maybe Fred or Bels would know?

 It would be interesting to know if she wants to come back simply because there is now no future for her with ISIS in Syria or because she genuinely found the Islamic State a horror to live under. If the latter, then it would be a valuable counter-terror measure if she could be returned to the U.S. and her story told, step by step, from recruitment to arrival in Syria, to what life was like under ISIS. Especially for a young woman. She could do that from jail.

When one leaves the country, and joins a group, such as ISIS, does that equate to renouncing one's citizenship?  Just asking, because I've always been under the same assumption as you;  If you were naturally born in the US, you're a citizen.

[Dill]

(02-21-2019, 09:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: When one leaves the country, and joins a group, such as ISIS, does that equate to renouncing one's citizenship?  Just asking, because I've always been under the same assumption as you;  If you were naturally born in the US, you're a citizen.

Don't know for sure. But I think you have formally renounce it--like when you become the citizen of another state which does not allow dual citizenship.

[Au165]

INA § 349 states that a citizen, whether a U.S. citizen by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing certain acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality. The fact of intention is critical; it is not the mere performance of the actions mentioned in § 349. Seven types of conduct are currently listed in the INA as expatriate. The potentially expatriating acts are: (1) applying for and obtaining naturalization in a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (2) making an oath of allegiance to a foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (3) serving in the military of a foreign country as a commissioned or noncommissioned officer or when the foreign state is engaged in hostilities against the United States; (4) serving in a foreign government position that requires an oath of allegiance to or the nationality of that foreign country, provided the person is at least 18 years old; (5) making a formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship to a consular officer outside of the United States; (6) making a formal renunciation of citizenship while in the United States and during time that the United States is involved in a war; and (7) conviction for treason or attempting by force to overthrow the U.S. government, including conspiracy convictions.

I think a lot of this comes down to is ISIS a foreign country and did we actually declare war on them? I don't think either of those considerations are met which means she can't be expatriated, however she will be charged with providing material support to a terrorist group.

[Benton]

(02-21-2019, 09:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Is she hot?

I wouldn't make her wear a hijab.

Legally, though, can the us revoke your citizenship for joining a terrorist group? I don't think she should be allowed to return,or if she does, she should be incarcerated. I'm just wondering if she has any legal ground to try and return .

[*michaelsean*]

(02-21-2019, 09:15 AM)Dill Wrote: If she was born in the U.S. how does she not qualify for citizenship?  Because she already is???

She has been "levying war" I guess. Certainly "adhering" to an enemy. 

But has Congress declared war on ISIS?  I am wondering if this "treason" might have the same status as "adhering" to a criminal gang. Criminal but not treason.  Maybe Fred or Bels would know?

 It would be interesting to know if she wants to come back simply because there is now no future for her with ISIS in Syria or because she genuinely found the Islamic State a horror to live under. If the latter, then it would be a valuable counter-terror measure if she could be returned to the U.S. and her story told, step by step, from recruitment to arrival in Syria, to what life was like under ISIS. Especially for a young woman. She could do that from jail.

Treason involves armed conflict, not necessarily a declaration of war.  

And sorry to the 20 year old, but you don't get a redo.  We have a lot of people her age in prison who didn't get a do over.  "Oh my bad.  Won't happen again."

[BmorePat87]

If she wants to serve a very lengthy prison sentence, I'd be down for that. Otherwise, buh bye.

[Vas Deferens]

First of all, this is a far different case than other women swept up by isis against their will. She knowingly and on her own volition chose to travel to and join these idiots. The many other women from that region who were bought, sold or otherwise acquired by isis present a true humanitarian crisis that will be difficult to wade through but should absolutely be top of mind while untangling this mess. I say bring some of them here and give them help and resources necessary to rebuild their lives.

But, when the willing wives of your religious insurgency sect say, 'i'd rather go home and spend 30+ years in a federal penitentiary than continue on with this charade'... you're doing something wrong.

As for this broad, I don't care. if she wants to come home on her dime and go straight to jail, ok. otherwise, let her wander in the desert dreaming of the license plates she could be stamping back in the good ol' USA

[*michaelsean*]

(02-21-2019, 11:09 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: First of all, this is a far different case than other women swept up by isis against their will.  She knowingly and on her own volition chose to travel to and join these idiots.  The many other women from that region who were bought, sold or otherwise acquired by isis present a true humanitarian crisis that will be difficult to wade through but should absolutely be top of mind while untangling this mess.  I say bring some of them here and give them help and resources necessary to rebuild their lives.

But, when the willing wives of your religious insurgency sect say, 'i'd rather go home and spend 30+ years in a federal penitentiary than continue on with this charade'...  you're doing something wrong.

As for this broad, I don't care.  if she wants to come home on her dime and go straight to jail, ok.  otherwise, let her wander in the desert dreaming of the license plates she could be stamping back in the good ol' USA

To address the main point of your post, I don't think they make license plates in federal prison.  

On edit: I guess there are federal license plates so maybe some federal prisoners do make license plates. This is an interesting tangent you taken us to.

[Vas Deferens]

(02-21-2019, 11:14 AM)michaelsean Wrote: To address the main point of your post, I don't think they make license plates in federal prison.  

On edit:  I guess there are federal license plates so maybe some federal prisoners do make license plates.  This is an interesting tangent you taken us to.

Hold on, hold on.  It would be a new program where she also has to toil away and build her own license plate stamping press out of raw materials, a goal she would never be able to attain, much like that which she originally sought.

[CKwi88]

I'm going off memory but I believe that she is not considered a US citizen despite being born here because her father was allegedly a diplomat or something like that. Children of diplomats are not granted citizenship just by being born here.

I feel like the cautionary tale of being spoon fed bullshit, believing in said bullshit, finding out that it really is bullshit, and then regretting said bullshit can be applied to other things in today's day and age, here and abroad. 

Sucks for her. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-21-2019, 11:26 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: I'm going off memory but I believe that she is not considered a US citizen despite being born here because her father was allegedly a diplomat or something like that. Children of diplomats are not granted citizenship just by being born here.

I feel like the cautionary tale of being spoon fed bullshit, believing in said bullshit, finding out that it really is bullshit, and then regretting said bullshit can be applied to other things in today's day and age, here and abroad. 

Sucks for her. 

The NYT is reporting the same.  That being the case this seems like a clear cut "NO" to her returning to the US.

[BmorePat87]

(02-21-2019, 11:26 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: I'm going off memory but I believe that she is not considered a US citizen despite being born here because her father was allegedly a diplomat or something like that. Children of diplomats are not granted citizenship just by being born here.

I feel like the cautionary tale of being spoon fed bullshit, believing in said bullshit, finding out that it really is bullshit, and then regretting said bullshit can be applied to other things in today's day and age, here and abroad. 

Sucks for her. 

In that case, stay out. 

[Belsnickel]

(02-21-2019, 11:26 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: I'm going off memory but I believe that she is not considered a US citizen despite being born here because her father was allegedly a diplomat or something like that. Children of diplomats are not granted citizenship just by being born here.

I feel like the cautionary tale of being spoon fed bullshit, believing in said bullshit, finding out that it really is bullshit, and then regretting said bullshit can be applied to other things in today's day and age, here and abroad. 

Sucks for her. 

I heard this story on NPR this morning, and from what they were saying the father was not a diplomat at the time of her birth, which would make her a citizen.

Honestly, if she's a citizen then she should be allowed to come back and face charges. If not, then IDGAF about this whole thing. Sucks for her, but not our problem, it's Yemen's.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I think it's a great story as it is.
She did what she did and now regrets what she did. Sadly the US won't allow her to come back, makes for a good story for other women seeking the same and being misled by the false promises.