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**Utts** · 10-11-2016, 01:34 AM

We do not have a coaching problem, but the coaching could be better.

We don't have an attitude or motivational problem either.

This is a talent problem. We are getting whipped in the trenches, on both sides of the ball. You can scheme around your weaknesses to a point. However, our problems appear to be bad enough, that schemes cannot overcome them.

The window has closed. It was fun while it lasted. Time to think about how this team rebuilds. Might be time to let Marvin retire, and go get Vance Joesph to come home and rebuild. We still have some core players with plenty of time left, so I could see us being a playoff team again in 2018. Maybe 2017 with some bold moves, and a little luck.

6-10 this season.

**Rynie** · 10-11-2016, 01:47 AM

Don't feel bad nobody can **** with our o-line.

**Alleyviper13** · 10-11-2016, 04:04 AM

I agree OP

Our window has closed

**bengalsturntup926** · 10-11-2016, 05:55 AM

It wasn't that fun, we didnt win one playoff game.

***SHRacerX*** · 10-11-2016, 09:11 AM

(10-11-2016, 01:34 AM)Utts Wrote: We do not have a coaching problem, but the coaching could be better.

We don't have an attitude or motivational problem either.

This is a talent problem. We are getting whipped in the trenches, on both sides of the ball. You can scheme around your weaknesses to a point. However, our problems appear to be bad enough, that schemes cannot overcome them.

The window has closed. It was fun while it lasted. Time to think about how this team rebuilds. Might be time to let Marvin retire, and go get Vance Joesph to come home and rebuild. We still have some core players with plenty of time left, so I could see us being a playoff team again in 2018. Maybe 2017 with some bold moves, and a little luck.

6-10 this season.

I disagree. Do you really think this roster is not better than that of the Oakland Raiders? LA Rams? Or even the Minnesota Vikings?

When Zimmer went to Minnesota, they had the worst defense in the league. #32. ONE YEAR later, I believe they were #5. That was the same players, but it was a better scheme and it was a better motivator. We didn't lose too much talent in the offseason, we lost the last semblance this team had of testicles, and they went to the Browns. After much of their balls already left for Miami and Minnesota.

The only thing afraid of Marvin is a local reporter and the only thing afraid of Paulie G is a bag of donuts. Nothing is afraid of the little squirrel Zampese.

**Au165** · 10-11-2016, 09:34 AM

Going to have to disagree. Very little changed in the trenches from last year to this year, but with vastly different results on both sides. Andre Smith isn't the magic bullet that was giving us time last year. I also will tell you schemes are notorious for hiding bad players on the line and creating false pressure on defense. The patriots have little talent on their o line, but they protect brady by using backs and TE's to help and using quick routes/rub routes to get guys open quickly.

This team has the talent, but they lack vision in the scheme and no ability to adjust. We didn't use any bunch routes to free AJ up this weekend. They are running cover two, so how about a split end/slot go/post combo to beat cover 2? Where were the smash concepts on the outside? Why were we not moving the pocket with bootlegs and waggles to buy time? Misdirection slows down pass rush, moving the pocket makes the d lineman run farther to get to the QB.

This is not a talent problem it is an ego problem. It seems like we want to do what "we do" rather than adjusting to what "they do".

**BengalHawk62** · 10-11-2016, 09:41 AM

Yes and no. This is a 6-10 season. But our window has not closed, yet. The NFL is very cyclical. We'll be back next year.

***jason*** · 10-11-2016, 12:20 PM

(10-11-2016, 09:41 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Yes and no. This is a 6-10 season. But our window has not closed, yet. The NFL is very cyclical. We'll be back next year.

For a couple of weeks I thought you were being too hard on them. I now feel you are a lil generous with 6 wins.

**BengalHawk62** · 10-11-2016, 12:50 PM

(10-11-2016, 12:20 PM)jason Wrote: For a couple of weeks I thought you were being too hard on them. I now feel you are a lil generous with 6 wins.

I just saw this coming a long time before others. There were a couple different people butthurt over my comments before, I wonder if they are more butthurt today?

We'll get to 6 wins this year and hopefully have a top 10(ish) pick in the draft next year. Next year we could turn it all around? We still have an extremely loaded team in certain areas. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us go 6-10 this year and go 10-6 next year.

**THE PISTONS** · 10-11-2016, 01:41 PM

Making the playoffs 5 years in a row spoiled people. The NFL is known for good year, good year, bad year.

Building a team isn't a linear progression.

That said...our talent level has regressed from last year in 3-4-5 spots. We're worse at RT, Guard, MJ at DE, and WR2/3.

**Hammerstripes** · 10-11-2016, 01:53 PM

I have to admit that I am shocked with how bad the line has been this year. I get the Bodine poor play, since he's never been good, but Zeitler has really struggled this year and that shocks me.

I figured at some point Whitworth would slow down, but I can't wrap my head around why the whole line has been so bad.

**Derrick** · 10-11-2016, 01:57 PM

(10-11-2016, 09:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: Going to have to disagree. Very little changed in the trenches from last year to this year, but with vastly different results on both sides. Andre Smith isn't the magic bullet that was giving us time last year. I also will tell you schemes are notorious for hiding bad players on the line and creating false pressure on defense. The patriots have little talent on their o line, but they protect brady by using backs and TE's to help and using quick routes/rub routes to get guys open quickly.

This team has the talent, but they lack vision in the scheme and no ability to adjust. We didn't use any bunch routes to free AJ up this weekend. They are running cover two, so how about a split end/slot go/post combo to beat cover 2? Where were the smash concepts on the outside? Why were we not moving the pocket with bootlegs and waggles to buy time? Misdirection slows down pass rush, moving the pocket makes the d lineman run farther to get to the QB.

This is not a talent problem it is an ego problem. It seems like we want to do what "we do" rather than adjusting to what "they do".

This makes a lot of sense even though I don't really understand some of the lingo.

**THE PISTONS** · 10-11-2016, 01:58 PM

(10-11-2016, 01:53 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I have to admit that I am shocked with how bad the line has been this year. I get the Bodine poor play, since he's never been good, but Zeitler has really struggled this year and that shocks me.

I figured at some point Whitworth would slow down, but I can't wrap my head around why the whole line has been so bad.

Yeah I don't know what's going on with Zeitler either.

Passing on DeCastro for Zeitler looks like a bad move in hindsight.

**Utts** · 10-11-2016, 09:20 PM

I was trying to emphasize the talent thing, but really it's obviously a number of things. Lots of variables at play here. I just happen to think talent is a big one, but certainly coaching and even intensity and discipline are issues too

***bengalfan74*** · 10-11-2016, 09:29 PM

(10-11-2016, 09:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: Going to have to disagree. Very little changed in the trenches from last year to this year, but with vastly different results on both sides. Andre Smith isn't the magic bullet that was giving us time last year. I also will tell you schemes are notorious for hiding bad players on the line and creating false pressure on defense. The patriots have little talent on their o line, but they protect brady by using backs and TE's to help and using quick routes/rub routes to get guys open quickly.

This team has the talent, but they lack vision in the scheme and no ability to adjust. We didn't use any bunch routes to free AJ up this weekend. They are running cover two, so how about a split end/slot go/post combo to beat cover 2? Where were the smash concepts on the outside? Why were we not moving the pocket with bootlegs and waggles to buy time? Misdirection slows down pass rush, moving the pocket makes the d lineman run farther to get to the QB.

This is not a talent problem it is an ego problem. It seems like we want to do what "we do" rather than adjusting to what "they do".

Exactly my friend !

I've preached this many times. Marvin and Co. aren't capable of figuring out what we have and how to use it. They say this is what we're gonna do and they're determined to make it work. After all it's their plan so it has to be good. Right Ninja

And you can forget in game changes, they have plan A and that's it !

But even bigger than that, we have a serious accountability problem which leads to a serious lack of effort problem. That's out biggest problem bar none !

**Fan_in_Kettering** · 10-11-2016, 09:31 PM

(10-11-2016, 01:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah I don't know what's going on with Zeitler either.

Passing on DeCastro for Zeitler looks like a bad move in hindsight.

Kevin Zeitler is an average guard but he's sandwiched between Russell Bodine and Cedric Ogbuehi. David DeCastro would struggle too.

**Fan_in_Kettering** · 10-11-2016, 09:33 PM

(10-11-2016, 09:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: Going to have to disagree. Very little changed in the trenches from last year to this year, but with vastly different results on both sides. Andre Smith isn't the magic bullet that was giving us time last year. I also will tell you schemes are notorious for hiding bad players on the line and creating false pressure on defense. The patriots have little talent on their o line, but they protect brady by using backs and TE's to help and using quick routes/rub routes to get guys open quickly.

This team has the talent, but they lack vision in the scheme and no ability to adjust. We didn't use any bunch routes to free AJ up this weekend. They are running cover two, so how about a split end/slot go/post combo to beat cover 2? Where were the smash concepts on the outside? Why were we not moving the pocket with bootlegs and waggles to buy time? Misdirection slows down pass rush, moving the pocket makes the d lineman run farther to get to the QB.

This is not a talent problem it is an ego problem. It seems like we want to do what "we do" rather than adjusting to what "they do".

Those concepts left town when Hue Jackson left town.

**reuben.ahmed** · 10-12-2016, 11:01 PM

I have to disagree Utts. We have always had a coaching problem. We have always had a motivational problem.

This year, we also have a talent problem. Recipe for disaster. Talent can only take you so far in life.

**Bengalsrob** · 10-13-2016, 04:01 PM

Coaching and schemes on both sides of the ball. Anybody here think Zimmer would have taken this very same team into Dallas and gotten blowed out in this same fashion? Bellichick? Del Rio? Hugh Jackson? Save for last week, Cleveland has been in every game, you think their talent is better than ours? Me neither.

***bengalfan74*** · 10-13-2016, 09:07 PM

(10-13-2016, 04:01 PM)Bengalsrob Wrote: Coaching and schemes on both sides of the ball. Anybody here think Zimmer would have taken this very same team into Dallas and gotten blowed out in this same fashion? Bellichick? Del Rio? Hugh Jackson? Save for last week, Cleveland has been in every game, you think their talent is better than ours? Me neither.

We're so in need of a house cleaning of all the coaches.

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