If This The End Of The United States?

[GMDino]

(01-14-2021, 03:52 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah sure, same with me, and I don't even live in such a bipolar society that yours is. It's human nature to a point, I guess.

[I also don't really get the appeal of Seinfeld, I find him boring and his show kinda meh, and yet many people here love it beyond words.]



Yeah I looked that up previously... the last (barely) negative referendum was in 1993, so 27 years ago. There's another negative referendum in 1967 that was boycotted by the statehood party. More recently Puerto Ricans voted for statehood in 2012 and again in 2020.

Interesting.  I didn't even look it up as it wasn't on my radar.  Thanks for the information.

[Au165]

(01-14-2021, 04:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The mob did all this because they were provoked by the guards and the police.

My last question to you all is, if you don't think that they were provoked by the police and guards, what was their motive?  What did they want the end result to be?  Why didn't they follow through to achieve that end result once inside?

Hold on, I have to ask because this is totally insane, are you saying that what we saw one week ago was because of the Capitol Police?

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2021, 04:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: To all these, Trump called for a peaceful protest.

Police removed barrircade, so what's the natural reaction going to be?  To go further.  

If you'll look at the timeline of everything, you'll see that the police and guards at the Capitol start spraying the crowd with hoses when things didn't look like they were out of control, so you don't think that played a part in the crowd getting agitated?  

You want Trump to have called for peace?  How many of these protesters do you think were opening their phones in the middle of this mess to check the internet and to be somewhere quiet enough for them to hear the President asking them to stop?

The mob did all this because they were provoked by the guards and the police.

My last question to you all is, if you don't think that they were provoked by the police and guards, what was their motive?  What did they want the end result to be?  Why didn't they follow through to achieve that end result once inside?

Wait, are we still talking about those MAGA capitol stormers you referred to as patriots before Trump threw them under the bus?  Now they were on a mission of peace from Trump until the police egged them into being violent?  

[*jason*]

(01-14-2021, 04:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: To all these, Trump called for a peaceful protest.

Police removed barrircade, so what's the natural reaction going to be?  To go further.  

If you'll look at the timeline of everything, you'll see that the police and guards at the Capitol start spraying the crowd with hoses when things didn't look like they were out of control, so you don't think that played a part in the crowd getting agitated?  

You want Trump to have called for peace?  How many of these protesters do you think were opening their phones in the middle of this mess to check the internet and to be somewhere quiet enough for them to hear the President asking them to stop?

The mob did all this because they were provoked by the guards and the police.

My last question to you all is, if you don't think that they were provoked by the police and guards, what was their motive?  What did they want the end result to be?  Why didn't they follow through to achieve that end result once inside?

A good chunk of them were posting to social media at the time.... This is all so pointless, because you're dug in. Which is ok.

How would you feel if Joe Biden gave that exact word for word speech, and had behaved the way Donnie has for two months, and all the snowflakes stormed the Capital? Going off of your outrage over Amen and a woman, I think I already know.

[*jason*]

(01-14-2021, 04:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: Hold on, I have to ask because this is totally insane, are you saying that what we saw one week ago was because of the Capitol Police?

It appears so....

[Benton]

(01-14-2021, 04:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: To all these, Trump called for a peaceful protest.

Police removed barrircade, so what's the natural reaction going to be?  To go further.  

If you'll look at the timeline of everything, you'll see that the police and guards at the Capitol start spraying the crowd with hoses when things didn't look like they were out of control, so you don't think that played a part in the crowd getting agitated?  

You want Trump to have called for peace?  How many of these protesters do you think were opening their phones in the middle of this mess to check the internet and to be somewhere quiet enough for them to hear the President asking them to stop?

The mob did all this because they were provoked by the guards and the police.

My last question to you all is, if you don't think that they were provoked by the police and guards, what was their motive?  What did they want the end result to be?  Why didn't they follow through to achieve that end result once inside?

First q: I don't, their motive was either trying to force congress to overturn a legal election or to just destroy stuff.

Second q: answered above.

Third q: for those that wanted destruction, they did. For those that wanted to overturn the election, they couldn't because our democracy is not in the peril the op cites. It's strong enough to shake off a failed coup because 2/3rds of the country doesn't believe one dudes incessant lies.

[BigPapaKain]

(01-14-2021, 04:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: To all these, Trump called for a peaceful protest.

Police removed barrircade, so what's the natural reaction going to be?  To go further.  

If you'll look at the timeline of everything, you'll see that the police and guards at the Capitol start spraying the crowd with hoses when things didn't look like they were out of control, so you don't think that played a part in the crowd getting agitated?  

You want Trump to have called for peace?  How many of these protesters do you think were opening their phones in the middle of this mess to check the internet and to be somewhere quiet enough for them to hear the President asking them to stop?

The mob did all this because they were provoked by the guards and the police.

My last question to you all is, if you don't think that they were provoked by the police and guards, what was their motive?  What did they want the end result to be?  Why didn't they follow through to achieve that end result once inside?

So wait - what those terrorists did is okay because they were provoked by police? Where was that rhetoric when it was the police provoking BLM?

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2021, 04:29 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: So wait - what those terrorists did is okay because they were provoked by police? Where was that rhetoric when it was the police provoking BLM?

I think the OP and other ultra-Trumpers are just protecting Trump himself at this point.  The MAGA henchmen who perpetuated this assault are being thrown under the bus like the expendable fodder any supervillain has at his disposal.

[Au165]

Could you imagine if someone said, "9/11 would have never happened if the U.S. didn't provoke Al Qaeda by stationing troops in Saudi Arabia! Why else would they have done that if they weren't provoked?"

...this is where we are at now.

[BigPapaKain]

(01-14-2021, 04:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think the OP and other ultra-Trumpers are just protecting Trump himself at this point.  The MAGA henchmen who perpetuated this assault are being thrown under the bus like the expendable fodder any supervillain has at his disposal.

I was a bit too young to remember Jonestown, but seeing it happen again in real time is ***** fascinating. 

[BigPapaKain]

(01-14-2021, 04:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: Could you imagine if someone said, "9/11 would have never happened if the U.S. didn't provoke Al Qaeda by stationing troops in Saudi Arabia! Why else would they have done that if they weren't provoked?"

...this is where we are at now.

I seen something earlier that basically said 'if you don't think Trump should be held responsible for the actions of the mob on 1/6, just remember Osama bin Laden didn't fly a single plane'.

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2021, 04:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: Hold on, I have to ask because this is totally insane, are you saying that what we saw one week ago was because of the Capitol Police?

If they weren't provoked by being sprayed by water and everything and then let inside, what was their end goal?

Why didn't they do anything besides one or two vandals stealing a computer and whatever once inside?

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2021, 04:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: Could you imagine if someone said, "9/11 would have never happened if the U.S. didn't provoke Al Qaeda by stationing troops in Saudi Arabia! Why else would they have done that if they weren't provoked?"

...this is where we are at now.

What was the mob's end goal then?

Why didn't they follow through with it once inside?

[Au165]

(01-14-2021, 04:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If they weren't provoked by being sprayed by water and everything and then let inside, what was their end goal?

Why didn't they do anything besides one or two vandals stealing a computer and whatever once inside?

...they literally killed a police officer.

Why did they bring zip ties, weapons, explosives with them? Did the officers provoke them before they boarded the planes?

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2021, 04:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think the OP and other ultra-Trumpers are just protecting Trump himself at this point.  The MAGA henchmen who perpetuated this assault are being thrown under the bus like the expendable fodder any supervillain has at his disposal.

Then what was their goal?  Why didn't they achieve it?

Why didn't they wreak havoc and destroy everything inside, start killing groups of people, or stealing everything?  

If they weren't provoked by police and even encouraged by taking down the barrier, what was their plan of action?  How would it have gone otherwise?

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2021, 04:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Then what was their goal?  Why didn't they achieve it?

Why didn't they wreak havoc and destroy everything inside, start killing groups of people, or stealing everything?  

If they weren't provoked by police and even encouraged by taking down the barrier, what was their plan of action?  How would it have gone otherwise?

How the hell am I supposed to know what a dumbass MAGA thug thinks? 

[KillerGoose]

(01-14-2021, 04:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Then what was their goal?  Why didn't they achieve it?

Why didn't they wreak havoc and destroy everything inside, start killing groups of people, or stealing everything?  

If they weren't provoked by police and even encouraged by taking down the barrier, what was their plan of action?  How would it have gone otherwise?

They did destroy things, that much is documented. Why didn’t they continue? Maybe because one of them got shot when they started going too far, and that made shit real to them. They were fine pressing on, despite warnings, until one of them was killed. Then reality hit.

They did still manage to beat a cop to death, still.

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2021, 04:54 PM)Au165 Wrote: ...they literally killed a police officer.

Why did they bring zip ties, weapons, explosives with them? Did the officers provoke them before they boarded the planes?

Who killed him?  How was he killed?  From what I've seen, he returned home or to the office and died there?  

In all likelihood, it was from something that happened at the Capitol, but was it something minor like a pre-existing condition that was set-off by just being in a scuffle?

If it was as big of a war zone as you're making it out to be, seems like there would be a lot more deaths of police officers.

[BigPapaKain]

(01-14-2021, 04:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: How the hell am I supposed to know what a dumbass MAGA thug thinks? 

Empty your mind and leave your mouth open until the drool comes out, then do whatever the next person tells you to do, but turn it up to 11.

[*Nately120*]

(01-14-2021, 05:01 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: They did destroy things, that much is documented. Why didn’t they continue? Maybe because one of them got shot when they started going too far, and that made shit real to them. They were fine pressing on, despite warnings, until one of them was killed. Then reality hit.

They did still manage to beat a cop to death, still.

It seemed more like they got in there and then didn't know what to do.  They just took down the American flag and put up the Trump flag and seemed to expect Trump to be granted the presidency because of it.  As a behaviorist, I see a lot of people who had a short-term goal in mind (get into the Capitol) and a vague objective given by a leader (overturn the election, as it should be) and once they achieved their first given goal they had no idea what to do and their leader provided no further instruction.