Impeachmen' 2: Electoral Boogaloo

[BmorePat87]

Pelosi planned on introducing a resolution calling on Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment or the House would respond by impeaching Trump.

The GOP has blocked an effort to pass the resolution by a unanimous voice vote and the text of the articles of impeachment have been released:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/533606-read-articles-of-impeachment-against-trump?fbclid=IwAR307OYRC_SrHS2IEWv-K7x9pPEnlrXvUx8ROFar46OwLoGT9WveAud0BD0

He is being accused of "willfully inciting violence against the Government of the United States". It specifically states that his speech to the crowd "encouraged and foreseeably resulted in imminent lawless action at the Capitol."

It goes on: "Incited by President Trump, a mob unlawfully breached the Capitol, injured law enforcement personnel, menaced Members of Congress and the Vice President, interfered with the Joint Session's solemn constitutional duty to certify the election results, and engaged in violent, deadly, destructive, and seditious acts"

It ties this to his efforts to overturn the election, citing his phone call and threats to the GA SoS to "find" him votes.

[Yojimbo]

I think it’s Impeachment 2: Electoral Bugaboo.

[CJD]

I think there's a fair chance this is only done so that it "Binds up" Trump's time so he doesn't have the time to do any more damage to our democracy. I don't think they really have time to do it, especially in the Senate, where they will have to convince at least 16 Republicans to flip (depending on when the two Georgia Democrats are seated. If that doesn't happen until after Jan 20, then they need 18 Republicans to flip).

If Trump is stuck dealing with an impeachment, maybe he doesn't have time to incite another insurrection attempt.

I just worry about the political capital that Democrats are expending to get this done. For example, Josh Hawley was originally pro-bigger stimulus checks (I believe he paired with Bernie to get the 600 up to 1200 back before the stimulus passed). Does going through with this vote mean that he will no longer vote for ending the inevitable filibuster on a larger stimulus bill? I don't know.

[BmorePat87]

(01-11-2021, 01:50 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I think it’s Impeachment 2: Electoral Bugaboo.

changing it to "Electoral", but keeping Boogaloo because that term has been recently appropriated by anti government losers. 

[*Nately120*]

Headline - Republicans decline to punish unrepentant repeat offender.

[BmorePat87]

(01-11-2021, 01:53 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think there's a fair chance this is only done so that it "Binds up" Trump's time so he doesn't have the time to do any more damage to our democracy. I don't think they really have time to do it, especially in the Senate, where they will have to convince at least 16 Republicans to flip (depending on when the two Georgia Democrats are seated. If that doesn't happen until after Jan 20, then they need 18 Republicans to flip).

If Trump is stuck dealing with an impeachment, maybe he doesn't have time to incite another insurrection attempt.

I just worry about the political capital that Democrats are expending to get this done. For example, Josh Hawley was originally pro-bigger stimulus checks (I believe he paired with Bernie to get the 600 up to 1200 back before the stimulus passed). Does going through with this vote mean that he will no longer vote for ending the inevitable filibuster on a larger stimulus bill? I don't know.

Obviously the right thing is for Pence and the cabinet to act as they will be taking a bullet for 250 or so Congressional Republicans who will not have to go on the record regarding Trump, but there's still reason to hold an impeachment trial after he leaves office.

The biggest downside is holding up the Senate from getting to work on Biden's agenda. 

[Au165]

(01-11-2021, 01:53 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think there's a fair chance this is only done so that it "Binds up" Trump's time so he doesn't have the time to do any more damage to our democracy. I don't think they really have time to do it, especially in the Senate, where they will have to convince at least 16 Republicans to flip (depending on when the two Georgia Democrats are seated. If that doesn't happen until after Jan 20, then they need 18 Republicans to flip).

If Trump is stuck dealing with an impeachment, maybe he doesn't have time to incite another insurrection attempt.

I just worry about the political capital that Democrats are expending to get this done. For example, Josh Hawley was originally pro-bigger stimulus checks (I believe he paired with Bernie to get the 600 up to 1200 back before the stimulus passed). Does going through with this vote mean that he will no longer vote for ending the inevitable filibuster on a larger stimulus bill? I don't know.

He is going to Alamo Texas (Side note: not the site of The Alamo) to give a rally. The small town is a border town but the name shouldn't be dismissed, they are projecting it as Trump's last stand. This thing isn't over yet in terms of violence which is why the 25th is the only real chance here to stop him before his term is over as the Senate has recessed until the 19th (intentionally).

[*Nately120*]

I gotta hand it to Pence, it takes some kind of stupid guts to decline to hold a man who had a mob chanting for your death accountable for anything. Hopefully he lives to laugh about it with Mother.

Hell, it's almost amusing that he won't entertain the idea that a man who whips up a mob that wants to kill him is mentally unsound.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Rep Clyburn indicated that they would vote for impeachment and then hand the vote to the Senate after Biden's 100 days to not tie up the Senate.

[BmorePat87]

(01-11-2021, 02:09 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Rep Clyburn indicated that they would vote for impeachment and then hand the vote to the Senate after Biden's 100 days to not tie up the Senate.

fair move

[Big Boss]

It sounds like the end game is to have the Senate vote on disqualification. Keep Trump from running for office again.

You figure some Republican senators would favor that. Get Trump out of the way for their own 2024 bids.

[*jason*]

(01-11-2021, 08:12 PM)Big Boss Wrote: It sounds like the end game is to have the Senate vote on disqualification. Keep Trump from running for office again.

You figure some Republican senators would favor that. Get Trump out of the way for their own 2024 bids.

More than anything I'd just like to see him lose his $200,000 a year pay, SS protection, $1,000,000 travel stipend, and any other benefit that his sorry ass doesn't deserve. He'll be even more feeble than he is now in 4 years, but someone every bit as scummy as he is will probably run.

[*Nately120*]

(01-11-2021, 08:51 PM)jason Wrote: More than anything I'd just like to see him lose his $200,000 a year pay, SS protection, $1,000,000 travel stipend, and any other benefit that his sorry ass doesn't deserve. He'll be even more feeble than he is now in 4 years, but someone every bit as scummy as he is will probably run.

I can't see him being able to pretend he's a republican after he's out of the WH and after he's called for so many republicans to be "fought" by his mob.  He's just going to be a 3rd party fringe candidate who has his digital hand out begging for money and crying "fraud" for the rest of his life.

I'd pity the guy, but meh.

[BmorePat87]

(01-11-2021, 08:51 PM)jason Wrote: More than anything I'd just like to see him lose his $200,000 a year pay, SS protection, $1,000,000 travel stipend, and any other benefit that his sorry ass doesn't deserve. He'll be even more feeble than he is now in 4 years, but someone every bit as scummy as he is will probably run.

They'd need to kick him out of officer prior to the 20th for him to lose the allowances and pension. The way the law is written, if he resigns or his term expires, he is entitled to the benefits. Only being removed from office by the Senate prevents his benefits. They could try to amend the law after the fact to say anyone impeached after leaving officer is disqualified too. 

The secret service detail is a different law and would continue regardless. Again, they could amend that law. 

[Big Boss]

It's also looking like the only way to prevent Trump from running for office again is to exercise the 14th Amendment, but the language doesn't exactly specify if it applies to the President so it could be contested.

The Senate can't vote to disqualify Trump from holding office again unless they vote to remove him, which they most likely will not do before 1/20. So Barring them successfully exercising the 14th Amendment, nothing prevents Trump from a 2024 run.

[GMDino]

Honest question:  Do you think Trump understands anything at all about government even after four years as POTUS?

Trump with what sounds like a warning to Congress:

"Free speech is under assault like never before. The 25th Amendment is of zero risk to me but will come back to haunt Joe Biden and the Biden administration"

— Jordan Fabian (@Jordanfabian) January 12, 2021

 



I don't even know what he could possibly mean by this.  Will Jordan and Hawley and Cruz push the Biden Admin to invoke it?  Does he believe the conspiracy theory that "the plan" all along was to get Biden elected just so they could get him out of the way and put Harris in?


Honestly the sooner this delusional fool goes away the better.

[Lucidus]

(01-12-2021, 06:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: Honest question:  Do you think Trump understands anything at all about government even after four years as POTUS?

Trump with what sounds like a warning to Congress:

"Free speech is under assault like never before. The 25th Amendment is of zero risk to me but will come back to haunt Joe Biden and the Biden administration"

— Jordan Fabian (@Jordanfabian) January 12, 2021

 



I don't even know what he could possibly mean by this.  Will Jordan and Hawley and Cruz push the Biden Admin to invoke it?  Does he believe the conspiracy theory that "the plan" all along was to get Biden elected just so they could get him out of the way and put Harris in?


Honestly the sooner this delusional fool goes away the better.

A complete and utter embarrassment to this country and foundational democracy. He's a moronic, self-absorbed lunatic. A man who's "reality" consists of conspiracy theories and extremist propaganda. He aspires to be an autocratic dictator and is baffled by the fact that a free people would reject such a desire by the POTUS. 

The more concerning and disheartening factor is the uncomfortable percentage of the populous who not only support this man's insanity, but who also believe him to be someone who exemplifies patriotism -- of which, he is the very antithesis.

[Dill]

(01-11-2021, 08:51 PM)jason Wrote: More than anything I'd just like to see him lose his $200,000 a year pay, SS protection, $1,000,000 travel stipend, and any other benefit that his sorry ass doesn't deserve. He'll be even more feeble than he is now in 4 years, but someone every bit as scummy as he is will probably run.

He's going to lose a lot more than that measly pension.

Deutsche Bank is severing ties with him (with multimillion dollar loans coming due in '23 and '24. The Trump brand is going to going to drop in value. 

He's not going to be able to return to the business world he left as a viable actor--though his debts will still be due.

Kryptonite for would be foreign investors as well.  Kushner and Ivanka will trend downward as well. 

Depending on how the pending financial investigations pan out, he could to some degree remain a player and a spoiler for the Republican party, which he remade in his image.  Some of his followers will recognize his betrayal of his own cause (e.g., condemning the protesters he sent to sack the Capitol), but the millions who refuse to read the NYT and WaPo will still revere him as some one who stood up to the deep-state pedophiles who still run this country.

[GMDino]

I don't want to give these people too much credit...they knew what they were dealing with and stupidly thought they could hang on with him long enough to keep getting whatever their party wanted.

But Trump has lost even some of the GOP and that's a good thing.

NEW: McConnell believes Trump committed impeachable offenses, believes the attack on Capitol gives Rs a chance to purge the president

and...

McCarthy has asked colleagues if he should urge Trump to resign, is open to a censure

w @maggieNYT >

: https://t.co/iQF7vZc2ab

— Jonathan Martin (@jmartNYT) January 12, 2021

 

[BmorePat87]

(01-12-2021, 09:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: I don't want to give these people too much credit...they knew what they were dealing with and stupidly thought they could hang on with him long enough to keep getting whatever their party wanted.

But Trump has lost even some of the GOP and that's a good thing.

NEW: McConnell believes Trump committed impeachable offenses, believes the attack on Capitol gives Rs a chance to purge the president

and...

McCarthy has asked colleagues if he should urge Trump to resign, is open to a censure

w @maggieNYT >

: https://t.co/iQF7vZc2ab

— Jonathan Martin (@jmartNYT) January 12, 2021

 

Liz Cheney has come out saying she will vote to impeach. Democrats are not open to reducing this to a censure. CNN spoke to three sources in the WH. One said 10-25 possible GOP votes, one said as many as 20 or more could (but they're not sure), and the last said likely less than 20. Expect maybe 15?