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"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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(01-27-2020, 05:38 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: 2 wrongs definitely doesn't make it right. Not saying that at all. I believe this is all about 2020.
So because there is likely political calculus involved there should be no accountability for abuses of power?
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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I like this Theodore Roosevelt quote:
Quote:No community is healthy where it is ever necessary to distinguish one politician among his fellows because “he is honest.” Honesty is not so much a credit as an absolute prerequisite to efficient service to the public. Unless a man is honest we have no right to keep him in public life, it matters not how brilliant his capacity …
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
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House impeachment manager Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) made a stunning admission Sunday, implying that Democrats want President Donald Trump's impeachment to impact the 2020 election.
During an interview on CNN's "State of the Union," host Jake Tapper asked Lofgren why she instructed senators last week to not "surrender to the president's stonewalling" when House Democrats did not pursue subpoenas and force additional witnesses to testify.
"You didn't pursue it in court. You ultimately withdrew the cases and went to the Senate," Tapper noted. "Didn't you surrender to the president's stonewalling, in that sense?"
Lofgren responded, "Well, in that — I guess, in that sense, we did, because, if we had waited for three or four years, the election would be over. The issue would be almost moot."
Despite the House waiting to take impeachment action against Richard Nixon until after the 1972 election, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, also one of the Democratic impeachment managers, said last week that "the president's misconduct cannot be decided at the ballot box, for we cannot be assured that the vote will be fairly won."
The admissions align with what White House Counsel Pat Cipollone told senators on Saturday in the opening statements of the president's defense.
"For all their talk about election interference, they're here to perpetrate the most massive interference in an election in American history," Cipollone charged.
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(01-27-2020, 05:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I like this Theodore Roosevelt quote:
Outstanding quote.
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(01-27-2020, 05:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:
I heard Bolton's name so much I had to go look up what this is all about. You forgot anonymous leaker in the "Who is telling the turth?".
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
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(01-27-2020, 05:45 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: House impeachment manager Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) made a stunning admission Sunday, implying that Democrats want President Donald Trump's impeachment to impact the 2020 election.
During an interview on CNN's "State of the Union," host Jake Tapper asked Lofgren why she instructed senators last week to not "surrender to the president's stonewalling" when House Democrats did not pursue subpoenas and force additional witnesses to testify.
"You didn't pursue it in court. You ultimately withdrew the cases and went to the Senate," Tapper noted. "Didn't you surrender to the president's stonewalling, in that sense?"
Lofgren responded, "Well, in that — I guess, in that sense, we did, because, if we had waited for three or four years, the election would be over. The issue would be almost moot."
Despite the House waiting to take impeachment action against Richard Nixon until after the 1972 election, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, also one of the Democratic impeachment managers, said last week that "the president's misconduct cannot be decided at the ballot box, for we cannot be assured that the vote will be fairly won."
The admissions align with what White House Counsel Pat Cipollone told senators on Saturday in the opening statements of the president's defense.
"For all their talk about election interference, they're here to perpetrate the most massive interference in an election in American history," Cipollone charged.
You do understand that this impeachment is over abuses of power in which Trump attempted to have a foreign power interfere in our election, right? So he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar prior to the election and this is an attempt to hold him accountable for his efforts to meddle in the 2020 election which, quite frankly, would disqualify any candidate were they not in office.
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"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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(01-27-2020, 05:48 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I heard Bolton's name so much I had to go look up what this is all about. You forgot anonymous leaker in the "Who is telling the turth?".
Enough corroboration has occurred that the whistleblower is irrelevant.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
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Just curious. Defense team has been going for two days. Have they said anything compelling?
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(01-27-2020, 05:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Enough corroboration has occurred that the whistleblower is irrelevant.
Huh?
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(01-27-2020, 05:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Huh?
What was confusing?
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(01-27-2020, 05:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Just curious. Defense team has been going for two days. Have they said anything compelling?
Ken Starr said that impeachments are happening too frequently. 
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(01-27-2020, 05:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Huh?
Did you mean the first whistleblower or are you thinking that the Bolton book info was "leaked"?
Matt, I believe, is talking about the initial whistleblower report.
The WH had a copy of Bolton's manuscript before this story was released.
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(01-27-2020, 05:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Did you mean the first whistleblower or are you thinking that the Bolton book info was "leaked"?
Matt, I believe, is talking about the initial whistleblower report.
The WH had a copy of Bolton's manuscript before this story was released.
The Bolton book leak. Yes I was thinking it was leaked.
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(01-27-2020, 05:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Enough corroboration has occurred that the whistleblower is irrelevant.
I don't believe that it is. Especially the alleged/apparent coordination with Schiff & his subsequent lies about it.
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(01-27-2020, 05:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Huh?
(01-27-2020, 05:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What was confusing?
(01-27-2020, 05:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Did you mean the first whistleblower or are you thinking that the Bolton book info was "leaked"?
Matt, I believe, is talking about the initial whistleblower report.
The WH had a copy of Bolton's manuscript before this story was released.
Oh! Yes. I was thinking of the whistleblower. However, Bolton's attorney has confirmed the validity of the leaked manuscript.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
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(01-27-2020, 05:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh! Yes. I was thinking of the whistleblower. However, Bolton's attorney has confirmed the validity of the leaked manuscript.
OK got it. I didn't read that.
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(01-27-2020, 05:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You do understand that this impeachment is over abuses of power in which Trump attempted to have a foreign power interfere in our election, right? So he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar prior to the election and this is an attempt to hold him accountable for his efforts to meddle in the 2020 election which, quite frankly, would disqualify any candidate were they not in office.
Yes, I understand that's what they are trying to prove.
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(01-27-2020, 05:56 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I don't believe that it is. Especially the alleged/apparent coordination with Schiff & his subsequent lies about it.
You mean where a committee aide directed the whistleblower to file the report with the ICIG and Schiff had no direct contact with him?
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(01-27-2020, 05:56 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I don't believe that it is. Especially the alleged/apparent coordination with Schiff & his subsequent lies about it.
The whistleblower is meaningless.
He is like a police officer who fills out the report after talking to witnesses. He was not a witness and could not give any relevant testimony or evidence himself.
People who believe it is important to hear from the whistleblower are the victims of "fake news".
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